If there is a God, remove Wagon from 5/8.

[Suitman]

I actuyally thought Wags played well today, and in the second half moved the ball quite effectively

It's just that after the constant whinging from people like Misty if Wags EVER goes to ground with the ball he just gets abused. If he doesnt throw a pass every time it comes to him he is the Devil.

Once again, I thought he had a good game today

Yawn.

In your honest eyes, has anyone EVER had a BAD game for the Eels???Suck, suck, bloody suck.
No wonder your mouth is the shape of a cheezel.

Suity

 

[Eelementary]

* Wagon plays with the number 6 on his back and does not necessarily play 5/8 in attack

* We managed to score 14 points in the second half of the Dogs game; this was a match where, although we had no chance of victory due to a mixture of an awful display by the Eels and a great display by the Dogs in the first half, we managed to outplay the Bulldogs

* We have scored: 14, 26, 38, 12, and 41 points

* I seem to recall against Canberra that Prince made a few vreaks down the wing

* Burt has made a few breaks thus far; most of them through a great forward offload or through cleaning up kicks

* Our outside backs are either creating space for themselves or their forwards are

* I have witnessed Burt create many plays before

My point is this: if we can score an average of 26.2 points per game, our outside backs can make breaks, our forwards can make it easier for our backs to weave their magic and Wagon is not required to use his 'creative flair' (of which he has none), what is the issue?

Wagon is there to strengthen our defence and does a great job at that. He absorbs a lot of impact with his hit-ups and takes a little pressure off the rest of the team. He may play with the number 6 on his back, but his duty is not to play a traditional 5/8's role.

Morris and Dykes control our creativity. Some may argue that with only two players creating opportunities we need to ensure they are always 'switched on'. However, we have players who can create plays in Burt and Webster if Dykes or Morris has a bad day. And anyway, most of the time we make clean breaks to set-up plays.

The Roosters are a great example. Their leading playmakers are Fittler and Wing. They have Finch too, but usually rely on Freddy and Wing to supply the attacking spark. We too rely on two main players but have others in case.

Some may argue that we are too predictable in attack. A point which, on the face of it, seems quite valid. However, we have managed to score valuable and volumnous victories over Souths, Newcastle and Brisbane with our so-labelled 'predictable' attack.

And then there is O'Dwyer. Loave him or loathe him, he is here to stay. I love him personally. He has a lot of talent - speed, strength, skill. He has the skills to play 5/8 or lock or centre and can create plays for us too. Maybe not too soon as he is till rather green, but in due course.

I believe the fact that we have lost two games which, in all honesty, we easily could have won had we not committed so many blunders is blinding to some people. Against the Raiders, we blew it ourselves. We had our opportunities to score. We didn't take them. And in Round 1, we just had an off night.

A 60% win ratio against Top 8 teams with only two playmakers (although, as I illustrated, we have more available) clearly suggests to me that attack is not an issue.

 

[Misty Bee]

But HJ, whenever he touches the ball, and gets tackled, you seem to proclaim him as an all time great! You can't see the truth, that Wagon will not be the 5/8 of the premiership winning side, can you? Nope, anyone who disagrees must be abused mercilessly.

Put it simply, if Wagon was Moses, no one would have got to read the 10 commandments.

Once again, I thought he had a good game today

You think he has a good game EVERY day. According to you, he does no wrong! Tell us something new!

What Wagon did today was his usual defensive efort, without the droped balls or missed tackles that have marred his games recently.

However, what he DIDN'T do (yet again) was put his outside men in spaces (when was the last time Vaealiki got put into space on a regular basis?), set up any attacking raids for his backline, or perform anything resembling a backup kicking game. What he offers in attack is sweet FA.

Parra are doing it all on the back of the ball skills of Dykes, Morris and Cayless. They are doing brilliantly - can't fault any of them really. But we could have [passed 50 if we had an attacking 5/8 setting up his outside men. Vaealiki is looking like he needs some decent balls - he's busting his nuts ATM - with a decent passing game from his 5/8 he would blitz it!

The other comment I'll make is that he haven't hit a really good defensive side yet, bar round 1 (Brisbane were very much of their game in round 2). Souths were out muscled today - they tried hard, but we were bigger, and had great go forward. On the day where that doesn't happen, and Dykes and Morris are not given the latitude they have been, an extra attacking option will be needed. Brisbane certainly know the value of an attacking 5/8. So do Penrith. So do Canterbury - have a look at the table at the mo - the teams with the best in formattacking halves are at the top of the table.

Parra were at their very best in 2 eras, when we had planty of attacking strikepower in the halves and hooker. Be it Sterlo/Kenny/Moseley or Drew/Taylor/Buettner, either combo crated planty of opportunities. Morris/Dykes are doing more than there share, but the fact remains that our only 3 backline attacking options are guru Jnr getting outside his opposing winger, Luke Burt making a break from a kick return, or a Dykes grubber/bomb.

To be a premiership force, we need to give our backs the same service as Sydney, Brisbane and Saints give theirs. Not to have a defender stuck in the link.

Now, it might be offensive to HJ to actually improve the side, but it can be done. And to be a fair dinkum force in this comp, it HAS to be done.

Parramatta will not win the premiership with Wagon at 5/8.

 

[blackfriday]

* Wagon plays with the number 6 on his back and does not necessarily play 5/8 in attack

* We managed to score 14 points in the second half of the Dogs game; this was a match where, although we had no chance of victory due to a mixture of an awful display by the Eels and a great display by the Dogs in the first half, we managed to outplay the Bulldogs

* We have scored: 14, 26, 38, 12, and 41 points

* I seem to recall against Canberra that Prince made a few vreaks down the wing

* Burt has made a few breaks thus far; most of them through a great forward offload or through cleaning up kicks

* Our outside backs are either creating space for themselves or their forwards are

* I have witnessed Burt create many plays before

My point is this: if we can score an average of 26.2 points per game, our outside backs can make breaks, our forwards can make it easier for our backs to weave their magic and Wagon is not required to use his 'creative flair' (of which he has none), what is the issue?

Wagon is there to strengthen our defence and does a great job at that. He absorbs a lot of impact with his hit-ups and takes a little pressure off the rest of the team. He may play with the number 6 on his back, but his duty is not to play a traditional 5/8's role.

Morris and Dykes control our creativity. Some may argue that with only two players creating opportunities we need to ensure they are always 'switched on'. However, we have players who can create plays in Burt and Webster if Dykes or Morris has a bad day. And anyway, most of the time we make clean breaks to set-up plays.

The Roosters are a great example. Their leading playmakers are Fittler and Wing. They have Finch too, but usually rely on Freddy and Wing to supply the attacking spark. We too rely on two main players but have others in case.

Some may argue that we are too predictable in attack. A point which, on the face of it, seems quite valid. However, we have managed to score valuable and volumnous victories over Souths, Newcastle and Brisbane with our so-labelled 'predictable' attack.

And then there is O'Dwyer. Loave him or loathe him, he is here to stay. I love him personally. He has a lot of talent - speed, strength, skill. He has the skills to play 5/8 or lock or centre and can create plays for us too. Maybe not too soon as he is till rather green, but in due course.

I believe the fact that we have lost two games which, in all honesty, we easily could have won had we not committed so many blunders is blinding to some people. Against the Raiders, we blew it ourselves. We had our opportunities to score. We didn't take them. And in Round 1, we just had an off night.

A 60% win ratio against Top 8 teams with only two playmakers (although, as I illustrated, we have more available) clearly suggests to me that attack is not an issue.

amen.

but seriously, im a fair dinkum parra supporter, what the hell are we getting excited about when we put on 41 vs souths?

 

[Parraren]

I think in the past 2 weeks we've seen both ends of the spectrum as far as our tactical play and it's effectiveness is concerned.

On one hand, against a very sound and strong defensive unit (possibly one of the best in the comp) in the Raiders we looked very one-dimensional in attack and seemed to rely far too heavily on Dykes. We were frustrated in attack and made alot of errors when there were opportunities to score points.

On the other hand, today against a good side but certainly not a side noted for their strong defense, we looked far more composed in attack and seemed to score points just about every time we attacked on their line.

It's still early days and the jury is still out as to whether this strategy will be a complete success. IMHO we will come unstuck against the top defensive sides in the comp with this strategy as we did against the Raiders last week. I certainly don't think it's a long term solution but it may actually be the best option at the moment especially when you consider our draw over the next month or so.

Having said that Wagon could be suspended next week so it will be interesting to see what happens there...

 

[Suitman]

Having said that Wagon could be suspended next week so it will be interesting to see what happens there...

Promise????

Suity

 

[El Diablo]

Having said that Wagon could be suspended next week so it will be interesting to see what happens there...

If Wagon does cop a week or two and neither Witt or Thorman get a run then they have made serious errors signing under Brian Smith. Has Smith ever had a decent set of halves at any club he's coached???

 

[Suitman]

Having said that Wagon could be suspended next week so it will be interesting to see what happens there...

If Wagon does cop a week or two and neither Witt or Thorman get a run then they have made serious errors signing under Brian Smith. Has Smith ever had a decent set of halves at any club he's coached???

Yes.........by default.

Taylor and Beuttner. Both Manly rejects. ;-)

Suity

 

[Parraren]

Having said that Wagon could be suspended next week so it will be interesting to see what happens there...

If Wagon does cop a week or two and neither Witt or Thorman get a run then they have made serious errors signing under Brian Smith. Has Smith ever had a decent set of halves at any club he's coached???

I'd be willing to bet that if Wagon is suspended the changes will be:

6. Morris
9. Muspratt

Smith has long term plans for both Thorman & Witt and won't be rushing things at this stage. Muspratt has been the unsung hero in Premier League. I watched the Prem's game v Souths and he was very impressive again. Fui Fui Moi Moi got man of the match too!! :shock:

 

[Chipmunk]

Most of the tries today were scored from one out hit ups inside the 10 metres, so I think our attacking prowess was just a little overated by the actual score line today. You will not score the tries we scored today against a decent defensive side, which was proven last week against Canberra.

I dont believe we played any better (or worse) than what we did against Canberra last week. The difference was the standard and the level of performance of the opposition. I would expect similar performances over the next 3 weeks

 

[Pazza]

It is early days, Parramatta is only going to get better and better as they go. It is only a matter of time before Witt and Thorman break into the side. They are abit like Marsh and Moran in 2000. If they are both play awesome footy not now but at finals time, that is going to advantage parra so much.

 

[Hollywood Jesus]

nice and original those ones :roll:

I'd never used them on anyone else before, had I? :roll:

 

[Twizzle]

If Wagon goes I think we will see the same game plan in place, a defensive utility player like O'Dwyer or even Lee Hopkins. I think Hopknins is back for next week, we'll know today any way.

It seems to be the was BS want to play that position.

 

[The Worm]

To those of you coming to Wagon's defence by saying he doesn't play the traditional pivot role - That's the point I'm trying to make! (I even mentioned it in the original post) We'd be more effective if we did have someone playing a traditional 5/8 role.

 

[Andy04]

I seem to recall that Luke Burt did quite a bit of kicking in play and that his kicks were pretty well placed to get Parra good field position

If he is playing back up kicker then there is no need for wagon to kick

 

[Hollywood Jesus]

To those of you coming to Wagon's defence by saying he doesn't play the traditional pivot role - That's the point I'm trying to make! (I even mentioned it in the original post) We'd be more effective if we did have someone playing a traditional 5/8 role.

That's the way to approach the circumstance, Worm. Instead of heckling Wags for not playing a role that he isn't even actually playing (can people get any stupider?) question the fact that we are not choosing to use a traditional 5/8. We have plenty of available ball playing 5/8s that can possible be used, and personally I think that we should be using Morris at 5/8 and Jimmy as a starting hooker, but if Smithy wants to use two locks, well, I guess its his call and there's nothing I can do about it, so whinging is just useless and negative.

But some people just can't seen to get certain things through their thick heads, and are so obsessed with a negative myopic view that even after it having been pointed out for the billionth time they will still cry about Wagon at 5/8.

 

[Pazza]

But Wagon can pass the ball!!!

 

[wittyz chick]

Pazza,
thats one of his FAMOUS dummies :roll:

 

[The Worm]

[quote="Hollywood Jesus
That's the way to approach the circumstance, Worm. Instead of heckling Wags for not playing a role that he isn't even actually playing (can people get any stupider?) question the fact that we are not choosing to use a traditional 5/8. We have plenty of available ball playing 5/8s that can possible be used, and personally I think that we should be using Morris at 5/8 and Jimmy as a starting hooker, but if Smithy wants to use two locks, well, I guess its his call and there's nothing I can do about it, so whinging is just useless and negative.

But some people just can't seen to get certain things through their thick heads, and are so obsessed with a negative myopic view that even after it having been pointed out for the billionth time they will still cry about Wagon at 5/8.[/quote]

You really are something else, John. Dressing up as the Lord on game day does not give you any right to judge, then crucify anyone who wants to post their opinion here!

Everbody has the right to put forward their point of view and most of us observe the ettiquette of not lowering ourselves to name calling on the forum.

Good humoured put downs are fine on here, but your continual denigration of anyone who doesn't agree with you is really getting in the way of intelligible conversation. I used to enjoy your posts, but lately I've found your outbursts tiresome. If you don't agree with someone - say so -but please remember it's not up to you to make assumptions about the characters of others.

John, you have never seen or met me, yet you believe you have the ability to judge me. I on the other hand have seen you on many occasions, observed your actions, yet never have I assumed I could make a judgement about you. Ironic isn't it.

 

[Eelementary]

To those of you coming to Wagon's defence by saying he doesn't play the traditional pivot role - That's the point I'm trying to make! (I even mentioned it in the original post) We'd be more effective if we did have someone playing a traditional 5/8 role.

My friend, I would DEFINITELY prefer a traditonal 5/8 with the strong defence of Wagon but with skills and vision. But it will not happen overnight.

But on the positive side, we seem to have no problem scoring points just with a halfback and hooker organising the play - YET. But as has been mentioned, we have other players who are more than capable of chiming in with organisational plays. I can recall a few instances last year where Burt set-up tries for Hodgson, and Hodgo (which we no longer have with us) set-up tries for his wingers.

That is why (I and many others believe) Witt is playing 5/8 in Premier League. If so, it would be a very handy halves combination - the experience and class of Dykes with the youthful enthusiasm and skills aplenty of Witt. With Thorman possibly off the bench.

That is the material of Premierhships. Well, possibly anyhoo.