If there is a God, remove Wagon from 5/8.

[The Worm]

Perhaps the Gods are the judiciary.

I don't want Wags suspended though - just moved to another position.

 

[grumble]

Worm, I may be wrong but I actually don't think HJ was criticizing you. I think he was saying that your approach (in questioning the decision not to play with a traditional 5/8) was valid. I think he was criticizing people bagging out Wagon and his selection at 5/8 rather than the tactic of playing 2 locks and not having a traditional 5/8.

I agree that the current tactic limits our potency in attack (so far without any trade off in terms of tightening our defence on the fringes of the rucks). However, I think (hope) that it is a short term tactic. That Smith wants to bed down the simple things (new squad, ball security, defense) and will become more adventuress as Thorman settles in, Witt gets back to his best form after recovering from injury and the team starts to play more controlled football - hopefully in another 2-3 weeks.

 

[PB]

Having said that Wagon could be suspended next week so it will be interesting to see what happens there...

If Wagon does cop a week or two and neither Witt or Thorman get a run then they have made serious errors signing under Brian Smith. Has Smith ever had a decent set of halves at any club he's coached???

Yes.........by default.

Taylor and Beuttner. Both Manly rejects. ;-)

Suity

So when players that are recruited do well, they are good by default, but when they don't succeed, it is poor coaching and recruitment? :?

Thats a bit rich....

I agree with whoever just said we are building. You don't show all your cards at the start of the year! In 01, we used Wagon at 5/8th plenty of times and had no problems scoring points, and i don't think anyone can say that Buetner (our other main 5/8th in 01) is all that much more creative a player than Wagon either. Buettner was always a better centre.

And if you asked Smithy after mondays game, why Wagon, why not a Witt or Thorman? He would tell you Wagon didnt make any errors, didnt miss any tackles and we scored 40 points and won. What is the problem?

I can't argue with that....

 

[Hollywood Jesus]

You're right, grumble, I was actually agreeing with him and backing up his approach...........

:lol:

 

[Mr Angry]

I thought Mr Smith was God out Parra way, therefore God is already picking Wagon @ 5/8.

 

[Suitman]

Having said that Wagon could be suspended next week so it will be interesting to see what happens there...

If Wagon does cop a week or two and neither Witt or Thorman get a run then they have made serious errors signing under Brian Smith. Has Smith ever had a decent set of halves at any club he's coached???

Yes.........by default.

Taylor and Beuttner. Both Manly rejects. ;-)

Suity

So when players that are recruited do well, they are good by default, but when they don't succeed, it is poor coaching and recruitment? :?

Thats a bit rich....

PB,

Where did I say that the recruitment of Beuttner and Taylor was poor.
Please cut and paste it and I will apologize.
If you remember correctly, both players copped a bagging (just like Dykes) when they came to this club. Taylor from reserve grade at the Northern Eagles. Beuttner not doing much better. It doesn't get much lower than that. I certainly had doubts.
But Smith deserves (and gets from me) enormous credit for the foresight and (re) development of those two players to top class.
It was a brilliant move.
Gee, I even thought McFadden was a great buy. Sadly, he didn't work out.
Dykes finally has some things going his way and is proving that is is all class. Another sensational purchase.

The "default" comment was made in reference to the fact that NOBODY thought they would end up being as successful as they were.
It was not meant to be a slight on anybody.

And back to Worm's argument....he is correct.
Name two seasons under Smith"s reign where we have had the same half/ five eighth combination??
It hasn't happened. I wouldn't call that stability.

Suity

 

[Suitman]

To those of you coming to Wagon's defence by saying he doesn't play the traditional pivot role - That's the point I'm trying to make! (I even mentioned it in the original post) We'd be more effective if we did have someone playing a traditional 5/8 role.

That's the way to approach the circumstance, Worm. Instead of heckling Wags for not playing a role that he isn't even actually playing (can people get any stupider?) question the fact that we are not choosing to use a traditional 5/8. We have plenty of available ball playing 5/8s that can possible be used, and personally I think that we should be using Morris at 5/8 and Jimmy as a starting hooker, but if Smithy wants to use two locks, well, I guess its his call and there's nothing I can do about it, so whinging is just useless and negative.

But some people just can't seen to get certain things through their thick heads, and are so obsessed with a negative myopic view that even after it having been pointed out for the billionth time they will still cry about Wagon at 5/8.

So, if people don't think that Wags is suited to 5/8th, we are stupid.
And if our opinion differs from yours, we have thick heads.

I really thought you were above that sort of nonsense, but I was obviously wrong. :roll:

Suity

 

[Eelementary]

Well, no doubt that a series of related issues (ranging from injuries, suspensions and retirements to poor form and releasing players) signifies that we have not presented a stanle halfback and five-eighth combination.

However, if everything goes as planned (or as is rumoured to be planned), then we will have a stable combination of Dykes and Witt (the positional conundrum will be discussed in future, I expect.).

 

[Suitman]

Well, no doubt that a series of related issues (ranging from injuries, suspensions and retirements to poor form and releasing players) signifies that we have not presented a stanle halfback and five-eighth combination.

However, if everything goes as planned (or as is rumoured to be planned), then we will have a stable combination of Dykes and Witt (the positional conundrum will be discussed in future, I expect.).

I'd like to think that will be the scenario in time.

Suity

 

[Eelementary]

Me too, mate. Me too.

And, funnily enough, I'd pay to see a traditional pivot and Dykes in the halves!

 

[Suitman]

Me too, mate. Me too.

And, funnily enough, I'd pay to see a traditional pivot and Dykes in the halves!

I'll pay to see Wagon at pivot. I just won't be happy about it.

Suity

 

[Hollywood Jesus]

I'm never above pointing out the hard truths.

I consider it one of my strong points 8)

 

[The Worm]

I knew there was a God. Wagon now being out for a week will give us a chance to see how the team will go with the traditional half/5/8 combo.

It will be great to have another ball player to back up Dykes and Morris.

 

[Twizzle]

Wait till we see what BS does, before you get too excited.

We could end up with Hindy at 5/8.

 

[Parraren]

Wait till we see what BS does, before you get too excited.

We could end up with Hindy at 5/8.

Or Hopkins at 5/8. Smith even played Muckert in the 6 jersey in the trial match against the Warriors. I have a strong feeling Smith will continue with this strategy of playing 2 locks rather than going back to having a traditional 5/8 in the side. Hence, I think it highly unlikely that we will see Thorman or Witt anywhere in the side at this stage of the season. If anyone is promoted from Premier League I think it will be either Muspratt or Pai. Hopkins or Muckert could also be very late inclusions but it's more likely that they'll spend a week in Prem's before being considered for first grade.

 

[The Worm]

If Smith wanted to play two locks instead of a 5/8, why would he sign the potential English National side's 5/8?

 

[Parraren]

If Smith wanted to play two locks instead of a 5/8, why would he sign the potential English National side's 5/8?

I guess that's a question only one man can answer.

 

[The Engineers Room]

It is a plan to get Witt and Thorman to forge out a combination, they are both on contract and by the time they are up he plans to have them as the starting combo. God knows how long Dykes can last. They are the future. And I think it is starting to work. They look pretty good in Premier League. Thorman is getting used to the flow of the Aussie game as well.

 

[PB]

The "default" comment was made in reference to the fact that NOBODY thought they would end up being as successful as they were.
It was not meant to be a slight on anybody.

Suity

My apologies mate. I misinterpreted your reference to "default", but understand what you mean now.

 

[Hollywood Jesus]

same here. By default usually means no other choice, but did u mean instead, something more like "by pure chance/luck" whatever?