Is a ball playing fullback required?

[TomRedVRiver]

As much as I love Duges and how hard he plays and the work he does in defence, I have seen so many backline shifts die with the ball in his hands.
If we had a player like Moylan/Tedesco/Coote/Barba/Wighton/Slater at the back we would be able to create that overlap or have the fullback throw that last pass. At the moment we're relying on the centres to beat their man or draw two defenders, rather than putting our backs into space. It also creates the uncertainty of the defence not knowing whether the fullback will run the ball or pass. At the moment Dugan is predictable. Hard to stop... But predictable.

 

[Smack]

I don't see Duges as a ball playing FB, more like a line breaking, hard running, support player.

 

[Carlton]

I love a strong ball running fullback. I think a lot of the reason fullbacks are more of a ball player these days is because centres, secondrowers and locks have become more programmed based around athleticism. This means a lot of the creativity in these positions is not there or has been limited by the game plan.

Remember offloads and set up of play from players like Mick Cronin, Rod Reddy, Graham Bradley, SBW, Ryan Girdler, Gavin Miller etc etc.

A big hard running fullback with these guys feeding him would be a world beater. Graham Eadie was a great player but it was the balance of skills in the team around him and game plan that allowed him to play his style and succeed.

I think Dugan has been hamstrung in our team and if he was playing with Thurston or Cronk would be close to the top try scorer in the comp. Matt Cooper scored a lot of tries getting the ball 10-15 metres out one on one with a defender. In this situation he was almost unstoppable and Dugan could do the same.

 

[blacksafake]

Millward thinks we need a ball playing fullback because he clearly doesnt see any option outside the standard formations that every other boring team plays over and over. A coach with vision, control, direction and imagination wouldn't need Millward in the first place, he'd be making his own decisions. Mary has said Dugan is a fullback and wants him to play there but he doesn't have the skills to create plays that utilise Dugan's strengths. Only Josh's natural abilities make him a standout player, he gets no help from the muppets who run things.

As our esteemed forum colleague constantly notes, it's a mess.

One thing, Kurt Mann needs to ge in the starting lineup this year and next. We simply do not have seven better backs than him. Whether that's at fullback is open to debate but his defence, ball skills and footwork might be just the right fit for the number one. It's a travesty that none of he, Dufty or Field has been given a run there during origin. But, like all of us, banging my head against a brick wall is preferable to trying to work out Mary's thought processes.

Well said Mate.

 

[Old Timer]

Ball playing FB or ball running FB is not the actual question.
Having a coach that can formulate a game plan for either and having the correct roster on the paddock to complimenmt whichever type of FB you have is the solution.
Cure the ailment and stop trying to treat the symptom's.

 

[TomRedVRiver]

Slater, Boyd, Tedesco, Wighton, Moylan, Gutherson, Gordon, Trbojevic, Coote, Hayne, Inglis/Walker, Tuivasa-Sheck.

11 of 16 teams that have ball playing fullbacks. We are in the minority here guys. It's not secret that the fullback role is evolving.

 

[giboz71]

I love a strong ball running fullback. I think a lot of the reason fullbacks are more of a ball player these days is because centres, secondrowers and locks have become more programmed based around athleticism. This means a lot of the creativity in these positions is not there or has been limited by the game plan.

Remember offloads and set up of play from players like Mick Cronin, Rod Reddy, Graham Bradley, SBW, Ryan Girdler, Gavin Miller etc etc.

A big hard running fullback with these guys feeding him would be a world beater. Graham Eadie was a great player but it was the balance of skills in the team around him and game plan that allowed him to play his style and succeed.

I think Dugan has been hamstrung in our team and if he was playing with Thurston or Cronk would be close to the top try scorer in the comp. Matt Cooper scored a lot of tries getting the ball 10-15 metres out one on one with a defender. In this situation he was almost unstoppable and Dugan could do the same.

Good post.

But if we really wanted to see the best of Dugan as an attacking threat, it would be this year. Our structures are the best they have been in ages, Widdop has been on fire and we're the top offloading team in the comp.

But still when he joins the backline, he's been riddled with cold drops and poor choices. Our halves have given him plenty of room this year and most of the time, he doesn't take advantage. His support play is also average when compared to guys like Slater and Barba. Hence he's never been a prolific try scorer.

Love a lot of what Duges does, but there are still flaws in his game which ultimately won't lead his team to success over the course of a season. Not from fullback anyway.

 

[Old Timer]

I love a strong ball running fullback. I think a lot of the reason fullbacks are more of a ball player these days is because centres, secondrowers and locks have become more programmed based around athleticism. This means a lot of the creativity in these positions is not there or has been limited by the game plan.

Remember offloads and set up of play from players like Mick Cronin, Rod Reddy, Graham Bradley, SBW, Ryan Girdler, Gavin Miller etc etc.

A big hard running fullback with these guys feeding him would be a world beater. Graham Eadie was a great player but it was the balance of skills in the team around him and game plan that allowed him to play his style and succeed.

I think Dugan has been hamstrung in our team and if he was playing with Thurston or Cronk would be close to the top try scorer in the comp. Matt Cooper scored a lot of tries getting the ball 10-15 metres out one on one with a defender. In this situation he was almost unstoppable and Dugan could do the same.

We finally get a half whi will ignite our attack and we let the FB go after he has put up with shit for his entire time at the club.
Again we never bothered to find out what we had, simply outstanding on the recruitemnet and coaching staff's part.

 

[Carlton]

Good post.

But if we really wanted to see the best of Dugan as an attacking threat, it would be this year. Our structures are the best they have been in ages, Widdop has been on fire and we're the top offloading team in the comp.

But still when he joins the backline, he's been riddled with cold drops and poor choices. Our halves have given him plenty of room this year and most of the time, he doesn't take advantage. His support play is also average when compared to guys like Slater and Barba. Hence he's never been a prolific try scorer.

Love a lot of what Duges does, but there are still flaws in his game which ultimately won't lead his team to success over the course of a season. Not from fullback anyway.

Our attack is better than it has been this year but it still does not utilise Dugan correctly. There is no way you could say McCrone is setting the world on fire and he is an integral part of the attack. Dugan's play is not riddled with cold drops and poor choices, many times when he is criticised for not passing there is actually nothing on.

Slater is lucky that he has a very well drilled and structured team that has been developed to take advantage of his skills. How many tries does he score from kick chases off Cronk? How many times did he split the defence with the inside outside play ( a set move designed to play to his strengths)? And even if Slater is "better" we don't have him and he is unavailable as far as I know, so let's move on.

There are endless references to how Coote, Tedesco, Moylan, TVS etc are better than Dugan but look at the stats they don't support this. Look at the games where Dugan plays head to head with these fullbacks and he invariably outplays them.

Every player has things they are better at or not as good at, Dugan's strengths far out way his deficiencies and it is only the fact he has not had the team around him and game plan to utilise him that has not seen him fulfil what he is capable of.

 

[Belta]

Tom Cruise said; "I feel the need for speed"

Along as they can tackle i say burn baby burn

 

[Belta]

I'm taking two hits up succession, is that even allowed? Oh well

Brownies team full of juniors just got pipped by Many last week, who aren't going too bad..they also nearly got the job done on us..hopefully Mary took note

Dufty, Mann and Field are just a few of the talented juniors .... Surely they are in the frame....if not Brownie should bitch slapped the bald head..it hasn't hurt Barrett any

 

[denis preston]

Give it up everyone , it's happened , move on and hope mcf**knuckle knows who Dufty is . Field still two years off and needs a lot of time to iron out major flaws in his game.

 

[Frank Facer]

Just remember that no other NRL clubs even tried to sign Dugan to play fullback for them. It looks like only some Saints fans want Dugan at fullback. No other clubs offered him the 1 mil a season that he was asking for either. When we first signed Dugan, I said that he was a good player, but he was not the type of fullback that I wanted. He does not score enough tries, he does not set up enough tries, he lacks the blinding speed that the likes of Slater, Stewart, Barba.

So in answer to the thread, yes of course we need a ball playing fullback. But I want more than just a ball playing fullback, such as Boyd. I want a fullback who has blinding speed, who is a try scorer and who can set up tries. I want a fullback who provides our team with X factor. I want a fullback who is a strike weapon. I also want our fullback to be safe under the high ball, to have good positional play and to be a decent defender. I am hoping that either Field or Dufty can be that player.

I still think Mitchell would be my target to sign as a fullback, if Field or Dufty are not the answer. I would like to see either or both Field and Dufty given a run at fullback this year, then we could get a better idea of if they are up to it. We should have marquee money put away for our fullback. Along with the halves, fullback is now one of the 3 most important positions on the field.

 

[denis preston]

Frank , we have invested in Dufty , he is doing all the things asked of him in his first year of senior football and covers most of what you want. Got to give him a go and I agree preferbly this year . Best case scenario for us is Dufty is the man and the money for Mitchell can be spent elsewhere for big fast speedy wingers/ centres .

 

[Bests Golden Boots]

I keep hearing Field and Dufty aren't up to first grade.
I wouldn't know as I've never seen them play a full game of first grade.

According to the geniuses at the Dragons Jack Bird wasn't up to first grade either, he proved that by being rookie of the year, a premiership winner and SOO player at another club.

 

[getsmarty]

Just remember that no other NRL clubs even tried to sign Dugan to play fullback for them. It looks like only some Saints fans want Dugan at fullback. No other clubs offered him the 1 mil a season that he was asking for either. When we first signed Dugan, I said that he was a good player, but he was not the type of fullback that I wanted. He does not score enough tries, he does not set up enough tries, he lacks the blinding speed that the likes of Slater, Stewart, Barba.

So in answer to the thread, yes of course we need a ball playing fullback. But I want more than just a ball playing fullback, such as Boyd. I want a fullback who has blinding speed, who is a try scorer and who can set up tries. I want a fullback who provides our team with X factor. I want a fullback who is a strike weapon. I also want our fullback to be safe under the high ball, to have good positional play and to be a decent defender. I am hoping that either Field or Dufty can be that player.

I still think Mitchell would be my target to sign as a fullback, if Field or Dufty are not the answer. I would like to see either or both Field and Dufty given a run at fullback this year, then we could get a better idea of if they are up to it. We should have marquee money put away for our fullback. Along with the halves, fullback is now one of the 3 most important positions on the field.

Well said. We have buckley's of getting Mitchell...Souths already tried...Uncle Nick always has a few trump cards up his sleeve.

 

[giboz71]

Dugan's play is not riddled with cold drops and poor choices, .

You clearly didn't watch the Panthers or the Tigers game. Happened in both games.

Set play inside our 20, decoy runners running the right lines McCrone delivers a perfect pass to Duges with acres of room to run our pass. Any first grade fullback would nail that play. Even Nighty does when he fills in.

Dropped the ball cold both times. Opportunity lost. He's a great fullback for sure, but this part of his game is just balls, no matter how people wanting to keep pinning his lack of basic skills on Mary or our halves.

 

[Frank Facer]

Frank , we have invested in Dufty , he is doing all the things asked of him in his first year of senior football and covers most of what you want. Got to give him a go and I agree preferbly this year . Best case scenario for us is Dufty is the man and the money for Mitchell can be spent elsewhere for big fast speedy wingers/ centres .

I would be spending the money on forwards. I think we have some great young backs coming through, who will benefit from playing behind a big tough pack and off a top pair of halves.

I think Lomax will/should be playing centre in first grade by 2019. Marsters could also be pushing for a centre, or wing spot by then too. They both are both only 17, but have the physique's that will be able to handle first grade. If Dufty, Field, Lomax and or Marsters make it or even turn into superstars, then we will have to be paying them market value to keep them. I have not been this enthusiastic about juniors coming through in a very long time.

 

[Mark D]

I have heard a rumour he is trying to back out of the deal.

What's the source to this rumor ? Would love nothing more then for this one to be true but doubt it.... Dugan is playing great footy and really sticking up Millward as if to say "told you so"

 

[Carlton]

You clearly didn't watch the Panthers or the Tigers game. Happened in both games.

Set play inside our 20, decoy runners running the right lines McCrone delivers a perfect pass to Duges with acres of room to run our pass. Any first grade fullback would nail that play. Even Nighty does when he fills in.

Dropped the ball cold both times. Opportunity lost. He's a great fullback for sure, but this part of his game is just balls, no matter how people wanting to keep pinning his lack of basic skills on Mary or our halves.

Out of 16 games you pick two incidents to justify his play is riddled with cold drops. You have got to be kidding. Did you see the pick up of the kick through on the run last game? And I've seen Tedesco, Slater, GI, Stewart, Boyd, Moylan, Coote all drop balls. It doesn't mean their game is riddled with dropped balls.