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Is Andrew Johns a drug cheat?

NGR

Juniors
Messages
1,499
if he took a pill before a game, i would be suprised if he didnt have a heart attack on the field...

and if he was coming down and playing he would lose a lot of coordination etc...

if anything, it shows how good joey really was....
 

goboggo

Juniors
Messages
494
Perth Red said:
Yes, by his own admission taking drugs helped him play the game better.

NO!!

He has no idea if taking them helped him play better.

Anyone with any history of drugtaking would laugh at the the idea that recreational drugs help you play better.
 

goboggo

Juniors
Messages
494
NGR said:
if he took a pill before a game, i would be suprised if he didnt have a heart attack on the field...

and if he was coming down and playing he would lose a lot of coordination etc...

if anything, it shows how good joey really was....
Precisely.
 

badav

Bench
Messages
2,601
For f**ks sake no.

Recreational drugs of any sort do not help you in sporting situations. they mess with your sense of perception and reflexes in a negative way. just because he was using drugs as an aside doesnt mean that he was ever under the influence during a game. and even if he was it would have hindered him more than helped.
 

Manly fLIP

Juniors
Messages
279
badav said:
For f**ks sake no.

Recreational drugs of any sort do not help you in sporting situations. they mess with your sense of perception and reflexes in a negative way. just because he was using drugs as an aside doesnt mean that he was ever under the influence during a game. and even if he was it would have hindered him more than helped.

The point that was being made is Andrew admitted he was using the drugs to help cope with the pressures of being a professional footballer.

This gave him an advantage over his opponents who had to cope with the pressure on their own without use of 'illegal' drugs.
 

badav

Bench
Messages
2,601
Manly fLIP said:
The point that was being made is Andrew admitted he was using the drugs to help cope with the pressures of being a professional footballer.

This gave him an advantage over his opponents who had to cope with the pressure on their own without use of 'illegal' drugs.

that is a load of sh*t.

reasons being

1) there would be plenty of others using rec. drugs
2) f*ckloads of footy players get smashed on alcohol as a means of release and to deal with pressure. and its no different. its still using a substance as means of release. and not dealing with it of your own accord. and im my mind theres nothing majorly wrong with that. everyone needs some form of release and its different for everybody.

the only reason this has blown up like it has is peoples inability to see that footballers have lifes (with their own problems) outside of footy.
 

NGR

Juniors
Messages
1,499
Manly fLIP said:
The point that was being made is Andrew admitted he was using the drugs to help cope with the pressures of being a professional footballer.

This gave him an advantage over his opponents who had to cope with the pressure on their own without use of 'illegal' drugs.
so if a player got tanked every day of the week to help cope with depression thats alright, but taking mdma is not?

neither enhances the players ability on the field, and both are used to cope with mental illness, all be it the worst way...

the key here is taking xtc a "performance enhancing" drug... simple answer no
 

goboggo

Juniors
Messages
494
Manly fLIP said:
The point that was being made is Andrew admitted he was using the drugs to help cope with the pressures of being a professional footballer.

This gave him an advantage over his opponents who had to cope with the pressure on their own without use of 'illegal' drugs.

It doesn't matter what Johns himself says about this!!

You guys don't get it - users will say anything when it comes to the reasons why they did it - THAT DOESN"T CHANGE THE ACTUAL EFFECT IT HAS ON THEM!!!

Even if he thought it would relax him, the side effects are negative.
 

PARRA_FAN

Coach
Messages
17,655
I dont think the drug helped him on the field, but he did break the rules, I think he said in the interview, he did it mostly in the offseason. How many tests do they do during the offseason?
 

salivor

First Grade
Messages
9,804
I had this debate recently regarding Wendell Sailor. Technically yes he is a cheat but do I personally consider a bloke snorting a line or popping a pill during a night out a drug cheat? No. I don't think anyone can seriously sit there and say they believe these blokes are taking these recreational drugs to enhance their performance.
 

parramaniac2516

Juniors
Messages
622
Well the drugs didnt help his performance the guy should not of been on the field and should of been suspended. So while he did not directly use drugs to cheat him being on a field is cheating enough.
 

Drew-Sta

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
24,729
Johns is in the same category as Sailor.

Same penalty should have applied if he was caught.
 

NK Arsenal

Juniors
Messages
1,861
the players should be drug tested by the NRL after the game and 2 days after the game IMO.
and in the off season once a week (without warning) by the club
 

paulp

Juniors
Messages
89
He is no more of a cheat than the players caught in in house drug testing who because of who they are not dealt with....(supposedly a high profile player a few years ago got away with a positive test)... and then a young unknown Dan Tilse does something that is not even close to what some of the stars get up to and gets booted.. hypocricity
 

lockyrulz

Juniors
Messages
2,394
Martli said:
I agree with Perverse in that he is a cheat by definition--assuming that the definition of a cheat is someone who breaks the rules. But, strictly speaking, Andrew didn't break any of the rules that are in place to prevent a player from getting an unfair advantage; he broke a rule that is there to protect the reputation of the game.

Let's face it, recreational drugs are banned in the NRL because they are illegal and, like any other organisation, the NRL do not want to be associated with illegal behaviour. They are not banned because they allow a player to cope better with firstgrade as there are many other mechanisims out there (Kava for example) that can be utilised that don't bring the game into disrepute and that don't give a player an unfair advantage over other players.

Do I think he's a cheat? By strict definition: yes. Do I think his drug use gave him an unfair advantage over everyone else? Arguable, but leaning towards no if his drug use was purely recreational.

That pretty much sums it up.
 

B-Tron 3000

Juniors
Messages
1,803
He's not a drug cheat, even according to the Australian Sports Anti-Doping Authority rules:

Sorry, still too many loopholes
Jacquelin Magnay | September 1, 2007

Australia's two biggest football codes have been rocked by dramatic confessions of their two best players, Andrew Johns and Ben Cousins, that they are drug users.

Not just an occasional dabble, but long-term, serious consumers of illicit drugs. And for years the two have never recorded a positive drug test. How can this be?

Drug testing is a numbers game and Johns admitted he was often playing Russian roulette, fearing that he would return a positive test.

The National Rugby League chief executive David Gallop said Johns, who retired in April, would not be able to get away with such drug abuse now because of the league's new illicit substances club testing policy. That policy started on August 1 after a year of consultation and clubs are expected to do about 25 random tests before the end of the season.

But the NRL illicit substances club testing policy has as many loopholes as its southern cousin, the AFL's illicit drugs code. There is no transparency, no public scrutiny, no independence. Why would an NRL club, or an AFL administration, want to publicly expose its key players, and its game, to damaging headlines?

Why is it that there has been a proliferation of AFL players testing positive to illicit substances on two occasions, but none three times? Where is the accountability to determine if these players have indeed been tested? Who is checking there is no switching of urine, or manipulation of the selection of coded numbers?

The NRL's policy relies on three club officials signing a statutory declaration that the coded numbers randomly selected reflected the correct players' names, and that the urine of those players was indeed tested. The NRL spokesman John Brady says the NRL will conduct regular audits on clubs to determine they are following correct practice. If any players are found to have tested positive twice but are playing, the club will face the loss of competition points as well as fines.

Johns said he was tested, mainly on game day, through the Australian Sports Anti-Doping Authority. But after the game he could consume drugs freely, knowing he wouldn't be tested by his club until the next training session, and by then the drugs would be out of his system.

If ASADA took a drug test on any day other than match day, his urine would not have been tested for illicit drugs. The drugs may well have been in his urine as evidence, but the laboratory would not have recorded it because on non-match days they only test for performance-enhancing drugs like steroids and growth hormones.

ASADA chairman Richard Ings said he encouraged sports to address their illicit drugs programs as ASADA concentrated on enforcing the World Anti-Doping Agency code.

"The WADA code does look at illicit drugs in competition, and we do uncover athletes taking drugs," he said.
he said.

"Look at Wendell Sailor."

Why do you think this is? It's because they know that recreational drugs do not help, unless somehow you get a boost by using them on match day (and anyone who uses them will tell you that any supposed boost on match day would probably not help either, considering the other side effects).

So, according to the highest drug authority in Australia - No, Andrew Johns is not a drug cheat.
 

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