Is Anyone Else Happy

[Tonearm Terrorwrist]

lol Kiwis again in a thread like this.

 

[ANTiLAG]

Warne had one of his best averages in England- those pitches actually help spinners as much as seamers. As he says- if it seams, it spins.

Warne could spin a ball on snow. Hardly an evidential statement for an othodox spinner without a birth defect.

England never produce roads, spinenrs do well in England, they always do.

So why doesn't England produce spinners? You make it sound like its India over there?!

Personally I'd call AB elite, BUT I would like him to stamp his class for 6 more months or so.

So he's not an elite, then. great. And Trott?

Broad is their 2nd best quick, he just is,

"he just is" - now tell that to Tremlett who is cleaning up.

and he is a genuine all rounder to boot.

Well he has a tonne. I was a big fan of his dad's to be honest so I expected his batting to improve and to continue improving. But he's not exactly Imran Khan or Flintoff just yet.

He will be there.

Maybe. Injury. Bresnan might be stuck with. Onions might be charging again. Broad's been a long term project - he's not Dale Steyn.

Then it is up to the options for the 4th quick, Finn, Onions (injured from memory), Tremlett, Bresnan.

Errr - 4 quicks and Swann? I very much doubt that England would play 4 quicks and Swann! They only played 3 quicks at the Waca. What are you on?

Sure they have depth, but I would not call any of them much chop really, although I like Tremlett if he bowls like he did today (fuller).

You seen what is out there globally bar Steyn these days? Pies galore.

England are not as good as you think either. I would rate them a 6.5/10 side, India a 7.5 and SA a 8.5.

But then you think Swann and four quicks will play....

 

[ANTiLAG]

lol Kiwis again in a thread like this.

lol one Aussie cricket fan still smug on yesterday's glory.

 

[lockyno1]

No I think 3 quicks plus Swann will play..although if Broad is there, there is merit in playing Prior at 6, Broad at 7 and then the 4 bowlers (including Swann).

A lot of spinners have done well in England, Hauritz averaged 30ish in England, Murali has a decent record there, so do quite a few spinners. England produce the best wickets in the world- they spin, they seam and they swing as well as allowing batsman to score. Good cricket wickets.

Trott needs 2-3 more years and does need to prove himself in a few more conditions, De Villers has done that. AB is closer to being elite. Amla is in the same category as Trott- needs more time.

England have produced spinners over the years.

 

[ANTiLAG]

No I think 3 quicks plus Swann will play..although if Broad is there, there is merit in playing Prior at 6, Broad at 7 and then the 4 bowlers (including Swann).

A lot of spinners have done well in England, Hauritz averaged 30ish in England, Murali has a decent record there, so do quite a few spinners. England produce the best wickets in the world- they spin, they seam and they swing as well as allowing batsman to score. Good cricket wickets.

Trott needs 2-3 more years and does need to prove himself in a few more conditions, De Villers has done that. AB is closer to being elite. Amla is in the same category as Trott- needs more time.

England have produced spinners over the years.

De Villiers has done what? Played average for yonks then had a stellar year? Trotts had a stellar 18 months!

Murali is an orthodox spinner with a birth defect. Clearly he was the off spin bowler i was limiting out of the equation. My point stands - England pitches will never be India like turners. Swann is a quality bowler - the best spinner around atm, even if we are in a Warne Muraliless era. There were spinners before Warne and Murali ya know. They didn't invent it. They were by far the best exponents, and clearlyt may have jaded other persons expectations of what a spinner should do.... Just because Swann aint in their legaue doesn't mean he is not an elite player.

Amla has had two stellar years in a row now - AB one. Amla has scored as many centuries as AB in less tests and less time. Amla, thus far > AB.

 

[TheParraboy]

Lol - why do you think those rules came in? it was to stop the windies dominance. It didn't work. One bouncer per over/batsmen was all they needed and the overs per day just meant the game was over in 2 days instead of 3 days. Learn your history son!

But as for respective eras - the Windies in their era went 15 years without defeat and regular overseas wins. Australia went 4 years without defeat and a lot of draws. Waugh was a flirt at Windies dominance as his was such a short time compared to Lloyd and Richards.

Talk about pitches all you like - as Imran Khan says "Fast bowlers were wayyyyyy better in the 80's". McGrath the notable exception.

Umm no rule changes no test cricket today champ, its as simple as that.

WI have considerably more draws than you think. They didnt play as much test cricket as there has been in the 90s and 00s, their record is stretched out a few years longer ;-)

 

[lockyno1]

Average? AB has averaged over 40 for a few years now. He is now averaging 50 ish. Yes that is on the back of 16 months of form, but he has always had a lot of elite traits..lets not forget the bloke is the best fielder going around at the moment. Trott is good- he needs to play in a range of conditions- he had a poorish tour of South Africa last time, so that to me is a bit of a mark against him at this stage.

This era of spinners are poor. Post Mural/Warne, there is not much left. Harby is past his best, Vettori is average in tests, Harris is a containing bowler and the rest well...Mendis has potential to be much better than Swann though.

Amla is close to De Villers, never said otherwise really although needs to do it for another period of time.

 

[ANTiLAG]

Umm no rule changes no test cricket today champ, its as simple as that.

In good English please? Maybe, if you're upto it, spoil me with some grammar to avoid ambiguity.

WI have considerably more draws than you think. They didnt play as much test cricket as there has been in the 90s and 00s, their record is stretched out a few years longer ;-)

Even if thats true - and I doubt it is, they definitely had less losses away

And as for 4 years vs 15 years - I doubt there is 4 times as many tests played now

It's really pathetic you're trying to claim Australia as the "White Windies".

 

[ANTiLAG]

Average? AB has averaged over 40 for a few years now. He is now averaging 50 ish.

ish being less than 50?

Yes that is on the back of 16 months of form,

Yeah and some sevre Paki bashing post scandal in Dubai

but he has always had a lot of elite traits..lets not forget the bloke is the best fielder going around at the moment. Trott is good- he needs to play in a range of conditions- he had a poorish tour of South Africa last time, so that to me is a bit of a mark against him at this stage.

This would be the series where Trott on his first tour averaged more than Prince, Duminy, Strauss, Prior and Pieterson?

You took the bait without even realising it...

This would be the drawn series at the start of this year? Where a "6.5" Eng went to an "8.5" SA and drew 1-1. A series in which - "not so good" Swann took 21 valuable wickets... That series?

This series throws a spanner in the works of your assesment of the two teams. What radical changes have been made to these two sides in the last 12 months? England look stronger now if anything with Cook finding sublime form and finding Tremlett....

This era of spinners are poor. Post Mural/Warne, there is not much left. Harby is past his best, Vettori is average in tests, Harris is a containing bowler and the rest well...Mendis has potential to be much better than Swann though.

Mendis has flopped once batters gotten use to his delivery. However, there is still Shakib and Swann. But what you kids do not realise is that Warne and Murali are not the norm. They are THE BEST EVER. UNRIVALLED. BEYOND PEERS. Spin will continue the way it was before them, for some time, until another one of their calibre comes along, if ever. You should not compare this era to the one past because every era compared to Warne/Murali is "poor" for spin.

Amla is close to De Villers, never said otherwise really although needs to do it for another period of time.

Amla is already beyond AB on recent past 24 month form. If he continues in the form he has had in the last 24 months - records and glory will follow.

 

[lockyno1]

50 meaning 50- he basically averages 50 give and take. This is despite playing in South Africa on pitches that are rarely flat. He is not lucky like Sehwag that gets to play on a road most tests in India. 50 for a South African is worth 55 or 56 in another country in my view. Trott was poor in South Africa, look at his series stats. You cannot possibly deny that. This was also the series where Steyn was coming back and thus was barely fit at all from memory. Every other era has about 4-5 "Swann's", there is nothing wrong with being a good-average spinner, which is what Swann is, but lets be honest he has bowled horrible in half the tests this series. Mendis is only young, he will get better with time. Amla needs to do it across a range of conditions.

 

[Red Bear]

Broad looked very mediocre even when fit. Tremlett has been far more impressive.

 

[Tonearm Terrorwrist]

lol one Aussie cricket fan still smug on yesterday's glory.

Looking forward to our next glory period aswell. That's the good thing about Australia when we go down we come back up soon enough.

 

[JJ]

Looking forward to our next glory period aswell. That's the good thing about Australia when we go down we come back up soon enough.

yep, took most of the 80's last time, but it did happen... problem is Steve Smith is no Steve Waugh - at least with Waugh it was obvious he was telented when he was struggling, and he was struggling against a fine NZ attack Steve Smith looks like he's overachieving atm

 

[Tonearm Terrorwrist]

It wouldn't bother me if it took most of the 2010's to get it again atleast we'll have another glory period instead of searching for our first.

 

[JJ]

It wouldn't bother me if it took most of the 2010's to get it again atleast we'll have another glory period instead of searching for our first.

we've had a few actually, but I don't expect Aussies to know much about our cricket...

of course the best and most recent was the 80s, where we were the only team to trouble the mighty Windies (probably the best cricket team ever)....

 

[yappy]

yep, took most of the 80's last time, but it did happen... problem is Steve Smith is no Steve Waugh - at least with Waugh it was obvious he was telented when he was struggling, and he was struggling against a fine NZ attack Steve Smith looks like he's overachieving atm

Rubbish. Utter, utter tripe of the most rank kind.

Steve Waugh used to find all sorts of ways to get out. I was far from the only one who wondered what they saw in this guy who keeps throwing away his wicket. It was a running joke for a long while that the selectors had picked the wrong twin.

Smith has done at least as much as Waugh in his first 4 tests. Go back and look at Waugh's early record - Steve Waugh Test List - it was a tale of misery.

Steve Smith will be a very fine batting all rounder who will average >40 with the bat and <35 with the ball over a long career.

 

[JJ]

From memory Steve Waugh offerred more with the ball, and at least looked like he had talent and a technique with the bat...


but whatever, even as a Kiwi I'd hate to have Smith at #6 in our test team