Is Australia's dominance officially over?

[titoelcolombiano]

Yeah, I really wish that the French would get their act together internationally and at the dragons with giving young French talent a shot at 1st team rugby. I also wish that people in RL would get serious with PNG and heavily invest at the grassroots level of the game in that country as they have the potential to be huge imo.

You are right on both fronts, France and PNG should both be challenging the big 3 (4?) in the near future.

Here's the thing from my perspective (and I'll admit it is only my perception, not necessarily a fact): the addition of the Hunters appears to have given the vital missing link to PNG RL between the local scene and the NRL and PNG will most likely benefit massively on the international scene because of it over the next 10+ years. We've already seen them put a slick performance together to beat GB in 2019 and push a very good Fijian side right to the end. So I think PNG are already on the way and the Fijian NSW side will probably have a similar effect for Fiji.

When we are talking France, of course Toulouse in SL will be big for them but my perception is that it will only be enough to keep them in barely touch as a second teir nation, not to propel them forward to challenge the teir 1's.

So, what I can't work out is: why can PNG install a QLD Cup side and improve so much but France with a SL side are falling behind? It just doesn't seem to add up. It feels like the French Federation lacks the will to bring their national team back to the top of the game whereas the island nations have all the will and motivation in the world.

Long story short, the answer needs to be driven from the French board in my view from the top down they need to have the drive to fix this which includes having stronger and closer relationships with both Catalan and Toulouse.

 

[adamkungl]

The French national setup lacks the professionalism to keep the players they do have on board.
Unlike smaller, newer RL nations which have an excuse, French players quite fairly have the expectation that their national team is a well run, high performance setup, but clearly they don't have faith that this is true.

The playing numbers and quality is not far off but the coaching and administration is not up to scratch

 

[Walter sobchak]

You are right on both fronts, France and PNG should both be challenging the big 3 (4?) in the near future.

Here's the thing from my perspective (and I'll admit it is only my perception, not necessarily a fact): the addition of the Hunters appears to have given the vital missing link to PNG RL between the local scene and the NRL and PNG will most likely benefit massively on the international scene because of it over the next 10+ years. We've already seen them put a slick performance together to beat GB in 2019 and push a very good Fijian side right to the end. So I think PNG are already on the way and the Fijian NSW side will probably have a similar effect for Fiji.

When we are talking France, of course Toulouse in SL will be big for them but my perception is that it will only be enough to keep them in barely touch as a second teir nation, not to propel them forward to challenge the teir 1's.

So, what I can't work out is: why can PNG install a QLD Cup side and improve so much but France with a SL side are falling behind? It just doesn't seem to add up. It feels like the French Federation lacks the will to bring their national team back to the top of the game whereas the island nations have all the will and motivation in the world.

Long story short, the answer needs to be driven from the French board in my view from the top down they need to have the drive to fix this which includes having stronger and closer relationships with both Catalan and Toulouse.

Do you not think that PNG are starting to benefit slightly from introducing a few heritage players like Alex Johnston, Xavier Coates, Lachlan lam and Luke page etc into the kumuls setup?

As for France they have to be the most frustrating RL playing nation on the planet as they have everything going in their favour to be a tier1 nation in terms of France being a rich developed country with a huge population that also has a rich sporting history including RL. They have a professional team in super league and another one knocking on the door in Toulouse with 2 semi-professional leagues under them giving them access to players but yet there’s still little to no improvement from les bleus.

 

[Walter sobchak]

The French national setup lacks the professionalism to keep the players they do have on board.
Unlike smaller, newer RL nations which have an excuse, French players quite fairly have the expectation that their national team is a well run, high performance setup, but clearly they don't have faith that this is true.

The playing numbers and quality is not far off but the coaching and administration is not up to scratch

I agree 100%. The only thing we can hope for in the short term is that the number of French born players playing in super league and the championship increases year on year to the point that it reaches some sort of critical mass and that the French National RL team becomes competitive and fairly successful by accident.

 

[deluded pom?]

Do you not think that PNG are starting to benefit slightly from introducing a few heritage players like Alex Johnston, Xavier Coates, Lachlan lam and Luke page etc into the kumuls setup?

As for France they have to be the most frustrating RL playing nation on the planet as they have everything going in their favour to be a tier1 nation in terms of France being a rich developed country with a huge population that also has a rich sporting history including RL. They have a professional team in super league and another one knocking on the door in Toulouse with 2 semi-professional leagues under them giving them access to players but yet there’s still little to no improvement from les bleus.

Maybe you’ve just answered your own question. PNG are now accessing players that France don’t have available to them. We all know about Catalans priorities in SL so France are being left behind, not just by their own incompetence but also the heritage player rules.

 

[Walter sobchak]

Maybe you’ve just answered your own question. PNG are now accessing players that France don’t have available to them. We all know about Catalans priorities in SL so France are being left behind, not just by their own incompetence but also the heritage player rules.

Maybe I did.

France will fall even further behind teams like Tonga, Samoa, Fiji and PNG. Maybe even Jamaica.

 

[deluded pom?]

Maybe I did.

France will fall even further behind teams like Tonga, Samoa, Fiji and PNG. Maybe even Jamaica.

And not totally because of their own ineptitude.

 

[adamkungl]

Back on topic, I don't think France are beating Aus any time soon

But does anyone agree with Rimmer's claim that England will win at home this year?

 

[Walter sobchak]

Back on topic, I don't think France are beating Aus any time soon

But does anyone agree with Rimmer's claim that England will win at home this year?

England might win 1 test but not the series unfortunately.

 

[Springs09]

Back on topic, I don't think France are beating Aus any time soon

But does anyone agree with Rimmer's claim that England will win at home this year?

I won't be tipping them but I think it will come down to Australia's attitude. I think England will be fired up and if Australia go into the series like they went into the Tongan game then England have a big chance. If we send over our best side with the right attitude I can't see us losing though.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Back on topic, I don't think France are beating Aus any time soon

But does anyone agree with Rimmer's claim that England will win at home this year?

They are certainly due for at least one test win. England / GB haven't beaten Australia since 2006!

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Do you not think that PNG are starting to benefit slightly from introducing a few heritage players like Alex Johnston, Xavier Coates, Lachlan lam and Luke page etc into the kumuls setup?

Yes absolutely they are. They don't rely on them as heavily as Tonga and Samoa but it certainly helps them. PNG have the ability to produce a large professional playing pool of home-grown NRL level talent that is only eligible for PNG within the next couple of decades and that is exciting for the game (and long overdue).

 

[adamkungl]

They are certainly due for at least one test win. England / GB haven't beaten Australia since 2006!

I was at that game. Australia did a bit of a squad rotation if I recall, rested some blokes and paid for it.

 

[Springs09]

I was at that game. Australia did a bit of a squad rotation if I recall, rested some blokes and paid for it.

No Thurston, which of course makes a big difference. Smith started on the bench as well.

 

[adamkungl]

No Thurston, which of course makes a big difference. Smith started on the bench as well.

The current Aus side looks a bit like that to me.
No immortal level superstars, where for the last 20-30 years we've always had 2-3

 

[Springs09]

The current Aus side looks a bit like that to me.
No immortal level superstars, where for the last 20-30 years we've always had 2-3

Yes and in the last 15 years despite nearly always having Lockyer/Slater/Thurston/Inglis/Cronk/Smith we lost tournaments as often as we did. With the strength we had we should have nearly always been as dominant as we were in the 2013 RLWC, which is the best performed side I've ever seen. Though I think all of our losses apart from 2008 corresponds with Thurston not being in the team.

Our squad last year had only 4 players that had played over 10 tests, with Cordner and Klemmer the most with 18 and 17 respectively. The game itself actually looks a bit weaker at the moment with no one yet of the caliber of a Johns or Lockyer or Thurston, though that may be because most of the former best players in the game have all retired within a few years of each other.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

I was at that game. Australia did a bit of a squad rotation if I recall, rested some blokes and paid for it.

True - with Australia in a bit of a transition at the moment and England (not GB) having had strong results in recent times, it might be their chance.

 

[NRLMad]

True - with Australia in a bit of a transition at the moment and England (not GB) having had strong results in recent times, it might be their chance.

I don’t think we can call it a transition. Players like Thurston, smith, slater, Inglis all are future immortals - you can’t replace them readily. Tedesco is not Slater or Inglis

 

[The Great Dane]

I don’t think we can call it a transition. Players like Thurston, smith, slater, Inglis all are future immortals - you can’t replace them readily. Tedesco is not Slater or Inglis

People have said the same thing for every generation of players that I can remember going right back to the 60's, and I'm sure that people have been saying the same thing since long before.

The thing is though while all the champion players are around winning all the trophies and representative honors there's no opportunity for young guys to develop to their full potential and take their place's as champions because (most of the time) nobody is picking a young kid over a known commodity like an older player that's been there and done that, this means that the younger guys have to wait for those older champions to be out of the picture before they even have the opportunity to make themselves a champion.

Give it a few years for a turnover period and then the best of the best will have asserted themselves again, and the next Thurston will have taken his place.

 

[Springs09]

Who is the nest Thurston though? Thurston was already one of the game's most dominant players when Joey was still around, and before Joey there was Langer, Fittler, Daley, Stuart and Wally retired the year before Joey's debut I think?

The closest is what - Munster, Keary, Cleary? They've all been around for a while now and do any of them remind you of a young Joey or Thurston?

I'd be very surprised if Australia get a dominant half of the likes of Thurston in the next 5 years, this compared to having Cronk, Thurston, Lockyer, Johns, Fittler, Daley, Langer, Wally, Stuart, Sterlo and so on all the way back to the 70s.