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Is Cleary a dud?

Dave's mate

Dave's mate

Juniors
Messages
1,783
Don't give a f**k what he says. Results are all that matters and the way they are he needs to be sacked no matter what the cost
 
BxTom

BxTom

Bench
Messages
2,674
Das Hassler said:
Yep..you're bang on. Another perhaps more instructive ( for Ivan) example was Melbourne with Munster awhile back when he was going through his being a goose phase...not only did Bellamy and the Big 3 tell him straight but they all told it straight in every interview...future superstar, who cares...get the message or take your attitude and go somewhere else.
Ivan is just fuelling the journo fire as he did the way he chose to handle things at the tigers when he had the journos camped there. ..you would think he would have learned from that but he's handling this exactly the same way so he should fairly expect whatever cynicism snd criticism comes his way. Bellamy and Maquire answer hard questions asked respectfully, succinctly and respectfully.
Ivan..
We dont talk about selection
We dont talk about player movements
We dont talk about problems
And now add to the list...we don't talk about form as it hasnt mattered for a long time.
Journos are one thing but the same criticisms from the Panther old boys in the media is harder to deflect.
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Ivan will not discuss the issues with journalists for a simple reason. He doesn't know or understand the issues. Ever that or he is in denial. And if he does know the issues, he can not deal with them.
 
Aliceinwonderland

Aliceinwonderland

First Grade
Messages
7,882
BxTom said:
Ivan will not discuss the issues with journalists for a simple reason. He doesn't know or understand the issues. Ever that or he is in denial. And if he does know the issues, he can not deal with them.
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Do you think so ? Hmmmm interesting. Maybe he doesn't like the line of questioning. Some within the media have been ongoing in their stalking of him for the last 10 months or more.
 
Aliceinwonderland

Aliceinwonderland

First Grade
Messages
7,882
I just think it's too simplistic to put some folks in white hats and others are the pantamine villian the black hat.

I think Ivan's been cast in that role by the media come what may.
 
BxTom

BxTom

Bench
Messages
2,674
Aliceinwonderland said:
I just think it's too simplistic to put some folks in white hats and others are the pantamine villian the black hat.

I think Ivan's been cast in that role by the media come what may.
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Hook and Gus,for all their faults, tried hard to keep Moylan here, even though he had problems with his discipline. Cleary deals with this by getting rid of players. DWZ and Lewis being just two examples over time. I am sure that there were others. It shows that Hook and Gus were better man managers than Cleary is.

The same media that paints Cleary on a bad light are the same media that paint Bellamy and Bennett in a far better light.

Why do you think that is?

Related to performance me thinks.
 
Aliceinwonderland

Aliceinwonderland

First Grade
Messages
7,882
BxTom said:
Hook and Gus,for all their faults, tried hard to keep Moylan here, even though he had problems with his discipline. Cleary deals with this by getting rid of players. DWZ and Lewis being just two examples over time. I am sure that there were others. It shows that Hook and Gus were better man managers than Cleary is.

The same media that paints Cleary on a bad light are the same media that paint Bellamy and Bennett in a far better light.

Why do you think that is?

Related to performance me thinks.
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I don't agree with you about Hook being a better 'man manager' than Cleary.

I think in light of the 'off season' from hell I'll give Cleary more time before passing judgement on him this time at Penrith.

None of us know all of the details about the who, where and why Dallin is leaving. I thought Brandy's tone when being interviewed spoke volumes. He said 'Dallin was told on Monday that he was being dropped this week. Within 24 hours there was an email from his manager requesting a release'.

This has not been challenged by Dallin's manager or Dallin himself in the media.
 
BxTom

BxTom

Bench
Messages
2,674
Aliceinwonderland said:
I don't agree with you about Hook being a better 'man manager' than Cleary.

I think in light of the 'off season' from hell I'll give Cleary more time before passing judgement on him this time at Penrith.

None of us know all of the details about the who, where and why Dallin is leaving. I thought Brandy's tone when being interviewed spoke volumes. He said 'Dallin was told on Monday that he was being dropped this week. Within 24 hours there was an email from his manager requesting a release'.

This has not been challenged by Dallin's manager or Dallin himself in the media.
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How long has Dallin been here? Nearly all that time he has stated that he would prefer to be full back.

Then why suddenly up and leave now?

And we don't even know if it's because he wants to be full back. I doubt that it is and I very, very much doubt that we will get the truth from Dave and his mate.
 
Aliceinwonderland

Aliceinwonderland

First Grade
Messages
7,882
BxTom said:
How long has Dallin been here? Nearly all that time he has stated that he would prefer to be full back.

Then why suddenly up and leave now?

And we don't even know if it's because he wants to be full back. I doubt that it is and I very, very much doubt that we will get the truth from Dave and his mate.
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As I said earlier. Assigning black and white hats to participants (in my view) is a little pre-emptive. Things I've found are generally shades of grey

Girdlers comments I also found interesting ' Watene Zelezniak request to leave was symtomatic of selfish attitude from the players who are more about themselves than the club'.

I do know that Dallin's game last week was perhaps one of the most distracted displays I've seen from a player in a long time. What has caused this distraction you and I can only speculate.
 
Das Hassler

Das Hassler

Bench
Messages
3,335
Ivan's had a long coaching career and has ridden the range with the media's white hat right up untill he jumped off his crowded bus....he's lived off the nice guy tag for longer than most would have been able to under the media glare. ..you'd be hard pressed to find one article bagging him prior to he and Dave kicking this off.
 
TheFrog

TheFrog

Coach
Messages
14,300
Das Hassler said:
...you'd be hard pressed to find one article bagging him prior to he and Dave kicking this off.
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He needed to do well this year, no doubt about it. Now that the team's backs are to the wall, fighting qualities are beginning to appear.
 
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