iSelect Gold Coast Titans granted new license

[El Diablo]

It found the football club and the property arm were intertwined.

Searle has asserted that the two were separate identities.

"The (football) club is a profitable and sustainable model. It's not a liquidity issue, it's a building issue.

"Once we solve the building issue we still continue talking to the NRL about possible funding."


It seems he is nothing more than a snake oil salesman and fits right in with the stereo typical white sand shoe brigade on the GC.

If the Football club is profitable, how come you have asked for handouts (grant advances) from the NRL to pay your players over 2010, 2011 and now it seems to be 2013. Get him away from the Titans ASAP if we want them to remain & be a success on and off the field.

what about these?

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/spo...eal-for-handouts/story-fnca0von-1226316885707

Clubs will also raise the issue of how the commission determines which clubs get an advance on their annual grants, with Cronulla, St George Illawarra and Manly all believed to be at least one month ahead of schedule.

 

[_Johnsy]

what about these?

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/spo...eal-for-handouts/story-fnca0von-1226316885707

One off grants I have no issue with, however if there is a pattern of requests that is becoming almost predictable, coupled with abhorrent financial mismanagement of the club then yes i would have the same issue.

Clubs will also raise the issue of how the commission determines which clubs get an advance on their annual grants, with Cronulla, St George Illawarra and Manly all believed to be at least one month ahead of schedule.

Not really that concrete, now is it.

 

[El Diablo]

neither are any of News Ltd's other claims

 

[Alex28]

It found the football club and the property arm were intertwined.

Searle has asserted that the two were separate identities.

"The (football) club is a profitable and sustainable model. It's not a liquidity issue, it's a building issue.

"Once we solve the building issue we still continue talking to the NRL about possible funding."


It seems he is nothing more than a snake oil salesman and fits right in with the stereo typical white sand shoe brigade on the GC.

If the Football club is profitable, how come you have asked for handouts (grant advances) from the NRL to pay your players over 2010, 2011 and now it seems to be 2013. Get him away from the Titans ASAP if we want them to remain & be a success on and off the field.

The two companies are probably not "intertwined" per se. They would share common directors and shareholders, but I doubt that the football club owns shares in the property company and vice versa. The football club should have a lease with the property company, but I can't imagine as far as ASIC is concerned they are linked in any way.

It is on the public record that the football club guarantees debt in the property company and that is pretty standard practice. The property company would not generate sufficient income to repay that size debt, and the intention would have always been that the football club (which generates the income) repays the loan. The vast majority of my clients hold assets in a different entity to where they partake business - this is really no different.

The football club may very well be profitable, however it also has to service a pretty substantial debt. That doesn't stop the football club from being viable under different ownership. That's why if someone buys the club and the debts are paid up there is no reason why anything within the club - logo, colours, name - has to change. The coast deserves a team with some stability.

 

[El Diablo]

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/...f-excellence-for-millions-20120404-1wcg5.html

Titans sell Centre of Excellence for millions
Chris Barrett
April 4, 2012 - 3:30PM

The Gold Coast Titans' financial turmoil is set to ease with news that they have sold the troubled Centre of Excellence next to Skilled Park.

The Titans' beleaguered property arm has been attempting to off-load the facility in an effort to save the club, which has been besieged by debts of at least $25 million.

It is understood a sale has been made, and the buyer is believed to be the firm Handling Solutions, who are the second biggest financier of the Titans other than the Commonwealth Bank.

The directors of Handling Solutions are Phil Ward and Robert Clark, the uncle and father of the Titans' football manager Scott Clark.

The development could have major implications in the club's fight for survival as it is expected the property arm's debt of nearly $20 million to the bank will be covered by the sale.

 

[I Bleed Maroon]

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/...f-excellence-for-millions-20120404-1wcg5.html

It would take personal connections to dig the Titans out of this one, wouldn't it. I wonder how long he grovelled to them on his knees.

 

[Willow]

Full media release here:

http://www.leagueunlimited.com/article.php?newsid=22526

 

[Cletus]

That's a bit weird. If they've bought it they would have had to clear the whole debt owed to the bank wouldn't they? Unless the Commonwealth has agreed to something else. I guess its good news.

 

[myanonymoususername]

Good for the Titans if this is all legit. At first glance it seems a bit incestuous, with Searles' mates, who also happen to be the dad and uncle of a key Titans employee and an existing Titans financier, so I wonder if there is a sting in the tail somewhere down the track.

 

[betcats]

Good for the Titans if this is all legit. At first glance it seems a bit incestuous, with Searles' mates, who also happen to be the dad and uncle of a key Titans employee and an existing Titans financier, so I wonder if there is a sting in the tail somewhere down the track.

I thought the same but if i'm being honest i'm in a bit over my head with this Tits stuff.

 

[bottle]

I thought the same but if i'm being honest i'm in a bit over my head with this Tits stuff.

You wish

 

[myanonymoususername]

That's a bit weird. If they've bought it they would have had to clear the whole debt owed to the bank wouldn't they? Unless the Commonwealth has agreed to something else. I guess its good news.

From what I've read in the press, they owed CBA something like $15m, and Handling Solutions "more than $5m". I'd guess that Handling Solutions have paid something like $15m cash to wipe out the CBA debt, and agreed to swap the $5m+ they were owed into equity in the CoE, meaning they've cleared $20m or so of debt and paid $20m for the CoE which from all reports is a bit over the odds but not drastically so (I'd seen estimates of its worth from about $13m-$20m). Not sure how Handling Solutions plan to make money on it other than by subletting it, or charging the Titans enough rent to pay them a decent return, or simply holding onto it and hoping the property market rises again and they can offload it at a profit.

Still leaves the Titans owing somewhere between $5m and $15m (depending on who you believe about their total debt - $25m or $35m). I assume this relates to things like the disputes with builders, the ATO and normal trade creditors.

 

[Digga Hole]

Could be good, could be bad.

As the second largest debtor they may have seen this as the best opportunity to get anything back.

Pay out the only debtor with security ($10m straight to CBA) and then take the CoE as consideration for part/all of their debt. If they think that the CoE is the only asset of value and is worth more than $10m then this may have been seen as the best option for them. They effectively get any difference between the $10m cash they paid and whatever they value it at. This way they placed themselves in front of any other unsecured creditors.

This is only one possible solution and a guess by me. I have no evidence at all to back this up.

The above would be the bad. The significant asset of value gone, other unsecured creditors fighting over the scraps when the whole thing is wound up.

On the other hand, they may have paid substatially more, the Titans have been able to retire more debts and now be financially viable.

You would think this (financial viability) would be difficult with an expensive stadium deal, average crowds, no Leagues club and now rent to pay on the CoE (assuming they will still use it), but i have no insight into their set-up so once again a guess only.

This deal could be the making of the Titans, or it could be the first step towards death. We will have to wait for more details.

Edit: similar explanation to that posted above me at the same time (maybe replace the $10m in mine with the $15m)

 

[Alex28]

The Titans press release stated that "the sale of the CoE will see the release of all current guarantees and guarantors on the building with the provider of the loan, the Commonwealth Bank". Doesn't say that the debt is repaid in full, however I'd suggest the Bank would have wanted it repaid in full given the Property Trust wouldn't have any other assets or income streams to repay debt.

 

[amaline]

You would think this (financial viability) would be difficult with an expensive stadium deal, average crowds, no Leagues club and now rent to pay on the CoE (assuming they will still use it), but i have no insight into their set-up so once again a guess only.

There was an article floating around recently. Not too sure how accurate it is, but it said the Titans Football club was paying $3M per year to the Property arm to cover the repayments. The article said rent should be valued at $1M per year. Really, the football side of things should be a lot better off, short term at least.

 

[Digga Hole]

There was an article floating around recently. Not too sure how accurate it is, but it said the Titans Football club was paying $3M per year to the Property arm to cover the repayments. The article said rent should be valued at $1M per year. Really, the football side of things should be a lot better off, short term at least.

That may be true, however if the property arm was earning $3m per year there would unlikely have been bankrupcy filings. $3m should easily have covered the interest bill.

However if they did need more finance the bank may have said no due to a valuation on the property, so could have had a cashflow/short term financing issue.

As I said earlier, still need more info.

 

[Alex28]

$3 Million would service a $15 Million loan over say 8-10 years though. Forget about market rents in that case - the Football Club would have been paying rent sufficient to meet the commitment to the Bank. Now they would be paying market rent under different ownership, thus saving them $2 Million a year.

 

[Eelectrica]

The Titans press release stated that "the sale of the CoE will see the release of all current guarantees and guarantors on the building with the provider of the loan, the Commonwealth Bank". Doesn't say that the debt is repaid in full, however I'd suggest the Bank would have wanted it repaid in full given the Property Trust wouldn't have any other assets or income streams to repay debt.

The Titanaium bar would be the other building owned by the Property arm. And is a revenue stream.

PS. When this saga is over can we retire the term Property arm for good? :crazy:

 

[Alex28]

It might be a revenue stream, but is it profitable? Do they own the building the bar is in? I'd suggest a different entity runs the bar to the one that owns the assets - that's legal 101. Very rarely does someone run a hotel/bar business in the company that owns the freehold. Leaves them wide open to lose assets in a legal matter.

 

[El Diablo]

Gallop just had a press conference about the sale

still not out of the woods yet