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"It’s very realistic to say that we’ll have a second team in Brisbane in 2023": V'landys

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
65,967
12 more games is unlikely to generate enough income to cover the costs of expansion, let alone make a profit.
An extra game in a new time slot on the other hand...

Put simply there’s no money in byes.

Still trying to work out how its 12 games tbh lol! Wouldnt it still be 8 games a week therefore if one round longer it would only be 8 games?

Anyways its going to be short term hopefully. No one like Byes every week! Hopefully Brisbane 2023 Perth 2026 for the new Tv deal.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
65,967
An extra Friday night and regular timeslots could add more than an obscure new time slot that everybody complains about. What timeslot do you suggest?

Sunday 6pm (perfect Perth game)

or we could grow balls like AFL have and tell Fox they wont get every game stand alone!
 

Jamberoo

Juniors
Messages
1,291
Spot on. I guess we can take some comfort from the fact that an odd number of teams is wasteful (why have at least one team sitting on the sidelines each week?), and even the NRL themselves acknowledge that 17 teams is a stepping stone to 18.

History backs that up - every time the competition (NSWRL, ARL, NRL) has an odd number of teams, that state doesn't last long before it returns to an even number. I give it 5-6 years TOPS.
Yes, but right now the decision is simply, should they add a 17th team in Brisbane. And if so, which bid is the best. If the two main challenges are financial and player depth, you need to see how the 17th team affects the comp before you decide on an 18th.
 

Jamberoo

Juniors
Messages
1,291
Still trying to work out how its 12 games tbh lol! Wouldnt it still be 8 games a week therefore if one round longer it would only be 8 games?

Anyways its going to be short term hopefully. No one like Byes every week! Hopefully Brisbane 2023 Perth 2026 for the new Tv deal.
Currently 16 clubs x 12 home games. Add a team - 17 clubs x 12 home games. It would need to be 26 rounds if you want to keep 24 matches. One bye each week (26 byes, plus 8 other byes to schedule around origin time). Not ideal, but no other way to run 17 teams.
 

mongoose

Coach
Messages
11,368
Titans currently have the strongest team in Queensland yet they only have 7k signed up members and draw abysmal TV ratings. Give their licence to Easts and Redcliffe so the new team will have a great squad from day one to create a legitimate rivalry with the Broncos. East Coast Dolphins. Corporate support from Brisbane, Sunshine Coast and Gold Coast. Player catchment from Sunshine Coast, Moreton Bay, eastern Brisbane, Redlands, Logan and Gold Coast. The numbers stack up.

I think the Gold Coast needs an NRL team. Sixth largest city in the country plus they have a very good stadium which holds 28k and that's a great asset to have considering half our clubs are still playing out of run down suburban grounds.
 
Messages
12,818
I think the Gold Coast needs an NRL team. Sixth largest city in the country plus they have a very good stadium which holds 28k and that's a great asset to have considering half our clubs are still playing out of run down suburban grounds.
A strong Titans is good for the game, but they'll need to start showing results sooner or later. Their membership tally and TV ratings are only ahead of the Warriors.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
65,967
A strong Titans is good for the game, but they'll need to start showing results sooner or later. Their membership tally and TV ratings are only ahead of the Warriors.

No one likes a regular loser, people dislike a broke loser even less! Sadly in true NRl style letting them in without any support meant that as soon as the team started to struggle the club did. Throw in some poor business decisions and sadly they became on the nose. The good news is they seem to be turning a corner and no reason they cant be a successful club, as said they have a great stadium and a large RL population catchment so have plenty going for them.
 
Messages
12,818
No one likes a regular loser, people dislike a broke loser even less! Sadly in true NRl style letting them in without any support meant that as soon as the team started to struggle the club did. Throw in some poor business decisions and sadly they became on the nose. The good news is they seem to be turning a corner and no reason they cant be a successful club, as said they have a great stadium and a large RL population catchment so have plenty going for them.
I hope they do become a powerhouse, but if they become a top 4 team and still struggle to draw a crowd, members and TV ratings, then serious questions will be asked about their viability.

I recall them making the top 4 in 2010 and failing to sell out Lang Park in a preliminary final against Roosters where thr winner got to play in the GF. This was before they had their struggles.

Titans shouldn't be worried about Bris 2 as it's a different market. Maybe I've got it wrong, but I get the impression the Titans want RL fans from southern Brisbane to prop them up and for businesses from Brisbane to invest in them but wish to be strictly a "Gold Coast" club, which is never going to happen. Former areas of Gold Coast that are now in Logan will support them, like Beenleigh, but they're going to struggle to develop a fanbase in the original suburbs of Logan.
 

MugaB

Coach
Messages
12,168
I hope they do become a powerhouse, but if they become a top 4 team and still struggle to draw a crowd, members and TV ratings, then serious questions will be asked about their viability.

I recall them making the top 4 in 2010 and failing to sell out Lang Park in a preliminary final against Roosters where thr winner got to play in the GF. This was before they had their struggles.

Titans shouldn't be worried about Bris 2 as it's a different market. Maybe I've got it wrong, but I get the impression the Titans want RL fans from southern Brisbane to prop them up and for businesses from Brisbane to invest in them but wish to be strictly a "Gold Coast" club, which is never going to happen. Former areas of Gold Coast that are now in Logan will support them, like Beenleigh, but they're going to struggle to develop a fanbase in the original suburbs of Logan.
You have everything wrong buddy, as soon as someone challenges the titans to be better as an entity a few pages ago, 1st instinct in your head was, give up their licence to a brand new entity, that has 0 runs on the board, over a team in Gold Coast which has 15 years to grow, yes they've been a bit disappointing, but have finally got their shít together these past 2 seasons, with there on field roster, and become somewhat the better qld team of the lot, but no jump on the train of cull the team already, this is the shít i keep seeing on these threads from you, get it together EXPANSION is all clubs plus one!
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
65,967
I recall them making the top 4 in 2010 and failing to sell out Lang Park in a preliminary final against Roosters where thr winner got to play in the GF. This was before they had their struggles.

Titans shouldn't be worried about Bris 2 as it's a different market. Maybe I've got it wrong, but I get the impression the Titans want RL fans from southern Brisbane to prop them up and for businesses from Brisbane to invest in them but wish to be strictly a "Gold Coast" club, which is never going to happen. Former areas of Gold Coast that are now in Logan will support them, like Beenleigh, but they're going to struggle to develop a fanbase in the original suburbs of Logan.

That year they had the 4th biggest attendance avg in a year of good attendances.

It isnt when your looking for SEQ businesses to sponsor you. They will all be fishing in the same pond. There's only so many companies who will put $500k- $1million sponsorship itno a club and most of them will have their offices in Brisbane. Its not about 'propping up' its about creating a viable business by having a big enough customer base. We have seen in Sydney what happens when you over saturate a city. Not saying that is the case but it is a legitimate concern for the Titans to have. If I'm NEDS do I see GC or Brisbane2 as a better sponsorship option?
 
Messages
12,818
You have everything wrong buddy, as soon as someone challenges the titans to be better as an entity a few pages ago, 1st instinct in your head was, give up their licence to a brand new entity, that has 0 runs on the board, over a team in Gold Coast which has 15 years to grow, yes they've been a bit disappointing, but have finally got their shít together these past 2 seasons, with there on field roster, and become somewhat the better qld team of the lot, but no jump on the train of cull the team already, this is the shít i keep seeing on these threads from you, get it together EXPANSION is all clubs plus one!
Didn't the 150/250 page report from Lachlan Smith say that expansion was unviable?

Didn't Greenberg want to kick the Sharks out or relocate them interstate?

Aren't the Titans leading a pack of 12 teams trying to sabotage expansion in Brisbane?

Didn't PVL say that the business case for Brisbane 2 has to stack up?

The Titans have been around for 15 years now. They got off to a great start, but have fallen off the wagon and aren't showing too many signs of getting back on it. They've had more on-field success than the Cowboys over the last 12 months and have a larger catchment of people within their district to draw upon for support, yet only have half as many members and are still struggling to rate on TV. Their derby game against the Broncos a few weeks back wasn't a sell-out, despite having the wood over them in recent times.

Titans do get out into the community to promote their brand, but it's not translating into new fans. They're regularly at Flagstone running clinics.

You can only blame on-field results for so long. Maybe the Gold Coast is Queensland's Wollongong and would be better served having a part-time team that markets itself to multiple catchments, like the Dragons.

No matter how emotional you get, you're going to have to accept that expansion may not occur without rationalisation, especially as revenue from broadcast deals dry up. You're also going to have to accept that history is littered with cases of companies coming and going out of business. Sport is a business these days.
 
Messages
12,818
That year they had the 4th biggest attendance avg in a year of good attendances.

It isnt when your looking for SEQ businesses to sponsor you. They will all be fishing in the same pond. There's only so many companies who will put $500k- $1million sponsorship itno a club and most of them will have their offices in Brisbane. Its not about 'propping up' its about creating a viable business by having a big enough customer base. We have seen in Sydney what happens when you over saturate a city. Not saying that is the case but it is a legitimate concern for the Titans to have. If I'm NEDS do I see GC or Brisbane2 as a better sponsorship option?
The Titans are owned by local businessmen Rebecca Frizelle and Darryl Kelly. There were Brisbane-based consortiums bidding to take over the Titans when their licence went up for renewal, but Frizelle and Kelly were given the keys. They chose to be a Gold Coast team run by local businessmen, so the onus is on the local community to support them in large enough numbers to justify them having a licence ahead of Brisbane 2, Perth, NZ2 and Adelaide.

https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nr...e/news-story/eea8348c385eb65a1db9b1a5d18cc056

If Brisbane 2 is a better investment for NEDS then it means the Titans, and by extention other regional clubs, are unviable if they have a major metropolitan area just up the road. Canberra and North Queensland are viable as they don't have major metropolitan areas nearby competing with them for fans and sponsors.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
65,967
Didn't the 150/250 page report from Lachlan Smith say that expansion was unviable?

Didn't Greenberg want to kick the Sharks out or relocate them interstate?

Aren't the Titans leading a pack of 12 teams trying to sabotage expansion in Brisbane?

Didn't PVL say that the business case for Brisbane 2 has to stack up?

The Titans have been around for 15 years now. They got off to a great start, but have fallen off the wagon and aren't showing too many signs of getting back on it. They've had more on-field success than the Cowboys over the last 12 months and have a larger catchment of people within their district to draw upon for support, yet only have half as many members and are still struggling to rate on TV. Their derby game against the Broncos a few weeks back wasn't a sell-out, despite having the wood over them in recent times.

Titans do get out into the community to promote their brand, but it's not translating into new fans. They're regularly at Flagstone running clinics.

You can only blame on-field results for so long. Maybe the Gold Coast is Queensland's Wollongong and would be better served having a part-time team that markets itself to multiple catchments, like the Dragons.

No matter how emotional you get, you're going to have to accept that expansion may not occur without rationalisation, especially as revenue from broadcast deals dry up. You're also going to have to accept that history is littered with cases of companies coming and going out of business. Sport is a business these days.

GC has a much bigger population catchment and business catchment than Wollongong AND more importantly its an AFL battleground so no way in the world NRL will not have a FT presence there (why do you think they bailed them out when they went bust?)

If you take the 13 years pre covid crowd avg of GC its only around 1500 a game less than Cowboys in same period, despite on field success of a GF win and one of the games superstars leading the Cowboys

People seem very harsh on the Titans when they arent that far behind in crowds. They do need a new membership team though! I dont think the Titans have yet tapped into the right vibe for creating a great day/night out at the footy for your gold coast type and could do with some marketing help, not that they are orphans in that!

If Brisbane 2 is a better investment for NEDS then it means the Titans, and by extention other regional clubs, are unviable if they have a major metropolitan area just up the road. Canberra and North Queensland are viable as they don't have major metropolitan areas nearby competing with them for fans and sponsors.

Canberra are only viable as they have a massive pokie empire, its certainly not sponsors and fanbase revenue keeping them that way! Cowboys had to be taken over by news Ltd who owned and ran them for quite a while, and once again rely on their pokies to break even.
No, it means that bringing in a new club will potentially compromise the viability of an existing club. Reality is Titans are likely to be compromised by a new Brisbane club, if that is ok or not is up to NRL to decide, but you cant blame Titans for pointing it out! The point is does SEQ have another business/es willing to put in $6-8million of NRL club sponsorship on top of what the existing two clubs are getting. If not then you are just watering down what is there.
 
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Messages
12,818
GC has a much bigger population catchment and business catchment than Wollongong AND more importantly its an AFL battleground so no way in the world NRL will not have a FT presence there (why do you think they bailed them out when they went bust?)

If you take the 13 years pre covid crowd avg of GC its only around 1500 a game less than Cowboys in same period, despite on field success of a GF win and one of the games superstars leading the Cowboys

People seem very harsh on the Titans when they arent that far behind in crowds. They do need a new membership team though! I dont think the Titans have yet tapped into the right vibe for creating a great day/night out at the footy for your gold coast type and could do with some marketing help, not that they are orphans in that!



Canberra are only viable as they have a massive pokie empire, its certainly not sponsors and fanbase revenue keeping them that way! Cowboys had to be taken over by news Ltd who owned and ran them for quite a while, and once again rely on their pokies to break even.
No, it means that bringing in a new club will potentially compromise the viability of an existing club. Reality is Titans are likely to be compromised by a new Brisbane club, if that is ok or not is up to NRL to decide, but you cant blame Titans for pointing it out! The point is does SEQ have another business/es willing to put in $6-8million of NRL club sponsorship on top of what the existing two clubs are getting. If not then you are just watering down what is there.
I don't trust the attendance figures stated by the Titans. Whenever I watch their games I see 75% to 85% of the seats empty, yet they've apparently drawn more than 50% of capacity every season bar 3 seasons. They don't even open the southern stand.

27,400 capacity.
Screenshot_20210511-161547.png

https://afltables.com/rl/crowds/robina_vn.html

They only have 7,836 members.

Screenshot_20210511-161815.png

https://www.nrl.com/membership/

Cowboys played at a dilapidated ground from 1995-2019 that had portable dunnies. Titans played at a state of the art stadium with fancy amenities.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
65,967
I don't trust the attendance figures stated by the Titans. Whenever I watch their games I see 75% to 85% of the seats empty, yet they've apparently drawn more than 50% of capacity every season bar 3 seasons. They don't even open the southern stand.

27,400 capacity.
View attachment 48369

https://afltables.com/rl/crowds/robina_vn.html

They only have 7,836 members.

View attachment 48371

Maybe they are all sat on the shady side where the cameras are? We can only go on the data to hand, everything else is just opinion lol
 

flippikat

Bench
Messages
4,471
Another question I'm pondering.. what MOTIVE did The Australian have in running that lengthy article?

Was it just to "divide and conquer" - encouraging a split between clubs & head office so everyone's distracted and News Ltd gets what they want in the meantime?

Or is there a certain pro/anti expansion stance they're wanting to progress here?

If watching media has taught me anything, there's often an agenda behind the coverage - and its pretty much given with anything connected to Murdoch...
 

MugaB

Coach
Messages
12,168
Didn't the 150/250 page report from Lachlan Smith say that expansion was unviable?

Didn't Greenberg want to kick the Sharks out or relocate them interstate?

Aren't the Titans leading a pack of 12 teams trying to sabotage expansion in Brisbane?

Didn't PVL say that the business case for Brisbane 2 has to stack up?

The Titans have been around for 15 years now. They got off to a great start, but have fallen off the wagon and aren't showing too many signs of getting back on it. They've had more on-field success than the Cowboys over the last 12 months and have a larger catchment of people within their district to draw upon for support, yet only have half as many members and are still struggling to rate on TV. Their derby game against the Broncos a few weeks back wasn't a sell-out, despite having the wood over them in recent times.

Titans do get out into the community to promote their brand, but it's not translating into new fans. They're regularly at Flagstone running clinics.

You can only blame on-field results for so long. Maybe the Gold Coast is Queensland's Wollongong and would be better served having a part-time team that markets itself to multiple catchments, like the Dragons.

No matter how emotional you get, you're going to have to accept that expansion may not occur without rationalisation, especially as revenue from broadcast deals dry up. You're also going to have to accept that history is littered with cases of companies coming and going out of business. Sport is a business these days.
Then it's not EXPANSION, and you are always the first to suggest a movement of licence, or a merger or culling of a team, you can't accept that expansion can be a good thing if pursued with good intentions, yet having another new qld team start up, all you want to do is cull its nearby neighbours, keep jumping at media shadows... sharks are going no where, its time to stop using that as a form of data, Greenberg has been moved on, most probably for suggesting just that. and in his tenure had not advanced any expansion of the game, nor improvements within the game itself or money the game was hemorrhaging due to his poor governance, since PVL and abdo had stepped up, all those metrics have improved, and hopefully expansion is upon us, if SEQ works, then we'll see other areas we can expand to.
As for this report, none of it is confirmed as read publically, so you cannot spout it as gospel or data, until you've yourself have read it, its just media spin until its available. Plus after all that it was carried out several years ago, and within those current parameters, the game was in decline in those areas, due to the wrestle, slow game play, confusion of refereeing decisions, money expenditure, the product was going stale at a slow rate, its now a better game for all its rule changes, and expansion has been floated around and rejected for over 15 years, its taken all of 1 year for these guys to approve it
 
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Messages
12,818
Maybe they are all sat on the shady side where the cameras are? We can only go on the data to hand, everything else is just opinion lol
The games I've attended always had a strong crowd for the away team. It's weird seeing the away team have more fans cheering them on.

Another question I'm pondering.. what MOTIVE did The Australian have in running that lengthy article?

Was it just to "divide and conquer" - encouraging a split between clubs & head office so everyone's distracted and News Ltd gets what they want in the meantime?

Or is there a certain pro/anti expansion stance they're wanting to progress here?

If watching media has taught me anything, there's often an agenda behind the coverage - and its pretty much given with anything connected to Murdoch...

Media is mostly propaganda by whoever owns it.

Then it's not EXPANSION, and you are always the first to suggest a movement of licence, or a merger or culling of a team, you can't accept that expansion can be a good thing if pursued with good intentions, yet having another new qld team start up, all you want to do is cull its nearby neighbours, keep jumping at media shadows... sharks are going no where, its time to stop using that as a form of data, Greenberg has been moved on, most probably for suggesting just that. and in his tenure had not advanced any expansion of the game, nor improvements within the game itself or money the game was hemorrhaging due to his poor governance, since PVL and abdo had stepped up, all those metrics have improved, and hopefully expansion is upon us, if SEQ works, then we'll see other areas we can expand to.
As for this report, none of it is confirmed as read publically, so you cannot spout it as gospel or data, until you've ypurself read it, its just media spin until its available. Plus after all that it was carried out several years ago, and within those current parameters, the game was in decline in those areas, due to the wrestle, slow game play, confusion of refereeing decisions, money expenditure, the product was going stale at a slow rate, its now a better game for all its rule changes, and expansion has been float around and rejected for over 15 years, its taken all of 1 year for these guys to approve it

You're more optimistic about the game's future than me. I didn't realise how perilous our game's finances were until I started taking note of the data provided by @Perth Red, @The Great Dane, @flippikat and @mongoose. The Melbourne ratings for the GF forced me to accept I was wrong.

COVID-19 exposed the game's shortcomings. I can only see things getting more difficult as automation kills more jobs and, international streaming companies kill commercial TV and Foxtel.

Andrew Johns might be right about contraction being the way forward. I never thought I would see the day when Europe and Japan became the centre of the RU world and relegated Australia, NZ and SA to second tier status, but here we are. AwFuL is getting stronger.
 
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Santino Patane

Juniors
Messages
248
Ma
I don't trust the attendance figures stated by the Titans. Whenever I watch their games I see 75% to 85% of the seats empty, yet they've apparently drawn more than 50% of capacity every season bar 3 seasons. They don't even open the southern stand.

27,400 capacity.
View attachment 48369

https://afltables.com/rl/crowds/robina_vn.html

They only have 7,836 members.

View attachment 48371

https://www.nrl.com/membership/

Cowboys played at a dilapidated ground from 1995-2019 that had portable dunnies. Titans played at a state of the art stadium with fancy amenities.
Mate, you’ve now lost any support I had for you. You love throwing stats and figures out to justify your own opinions, but when they don’t, you “don’t trust” them. That is a perfect example of cherry picking data, and you’ve proven yourself unreliable and completely biased.

The Gold Coast are still in the comp due to the participation rates in the catchment (2nd largest behind Penrith). They are on a long build after doing a terrible job of destroying their fan base in 2013/4 with the Centre of Excellence fiasco. It will take at least another 3-5 years but anyone with an objective eye seeing what’s happening around the club know it’s going to happen. The level of investment in the juniors is nearly on par with Penrith (who should be congratulated for being best in class).

No Gold Coast club means killing junior development between Ballina and Beenleigh, and is everything that will kill the game in the future.
 

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