"It’s very realistic to say that we’ll have a second team in Brisbane in 2023": V'landys

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Disappointed with the Titans as they seem to be the club leading the resistance against expansion. They've had over 10 years now to sort their shit out if they can't make it work on the Gold Coast then they shouldn't be in the comp. They only have to compete against one team unlike Sydney clubs which are competing against 8!

I was saying this a year ago!

If I was V'Landys I would give the Titans' licence to Easts Tigers under the condition they play as "East Coast", splitting home games between Lang Park and Robina Stadium. That way the competition stays at 16 teams, Brisbane gets a 2nd team that'll bring in more viewers, higher crowds and more money from investors than the Titans ever will.

If I was V'Landys I would go one step further and have Redcliffe merge with Easts to become the East Coast Dolphins, just to rub it into the whingers as the Titans as they originally wanted to be the Dolphins.

East Coast Dolphins, backed by Easts Leagues and Redcliffe Leagues, with a range from Sunshine Coast to Gold Coast, would be a juggernaut. 6 games at Lang Park, 4 at Robina, 2 at Sunshine Coast. Easts get to retain their identify through "East Coast" and Dolphins get to be in the big time.

 

[MugaB]

I was saying this a year ago!

If I was V'Landys I would give the Titans' licence to Easts Tigers under the condition they play as "East Coast", splitting home games between Lang Park and Robina Stadium.. That way the competition stays at 16 teams, Brisbane gets a 2nd team that'll bring in more viewers, higher crowds and more money from investors than the Titans ever will.

If I was V'Landys I would go one step further and have Redcliffe merge with Easts to become the East Coast Dolphins, just to rub it into the whingers as the Titans as they originally wanted to be the Dolphins.

East Coast Dolphins, backed by Easts Leagues and Redcliffe Leagues, with a range from Sunshine Coast to Gold Coast, would be a juggernaut.

Might aswell include Wynumm and Manly too

 

[Vee]

Gemma independent? It's paid for by 12 clubs, it will reach the consensus of the q2.

 

[MugaB]

it was done looking at expansion options everywhere. I know they came to perth to talk to govt’s and backers here. I’d love to get my hands on a copy!

re finances, nrl was in first two years of the new tv deal and had a $42.8mill surplus in 2018 and $30.1million in 2019 so when the report was done they were pretty flush with spare cash.

Perth? well that's probably why they weren't keen on it, don't get me wrong, I'm all for any expansion, especially Perth and Adelaide, but if they (the report finder =smith) already went there and said too expensive to start from scratch or even taking on the bid, or just breaking even, maybe they aren't looking to go back for that reason due to that initial report.
I would want to see what they said about those exact cities, in an effort to fix what they think isn't worth fixing, and like i said previously, the NRL seems to be in a better position currently with the cost cutting that has happened, than it was when the initial report was created.

 

[The Great Dane]

Disappointed with the Titans as they seem to be the club leading the resistance against expansion. They've had over 10 years now to sort their shit out if they can't make it work on the Gold Coast then they shouldn't be in the comp. They only have to compete against one team unlike Sydney clubs which are competing against 8!

With the way that it seems that the NRL is currently handling expansion the Titans have a right to be worried.

I mean that article suggests that the NRL is basically ignoring any research that they don’t like the conclusions of, and that they are running a closed bidding process for the next license. If it’s true then they are very much shooting from hip.

So yeah, considering the circumstances the Titans (and a lot of the other teams) have a right to be concerned, and I don’t begrudge them trying to protect their interests where necessary.

 

[MugaB]

With the way that it seems that the NRL is currently handling expansion the Titans have a right to be worried.

I mean that article suggests that the NRL is basically ignoring any research that they don’t like the conclusions of, and that they are running a closed bidding process for the next license. If it’s true then they are very much shooting from hip.

So yeah, considering the circumstances the Titans (and a lot of the other teams) have a right to be concerned, and I don’t begrudge them trying to protect their interests where necessary.

I doubt that's happening, i'm pretty sure that the Moreton Bay area is where they are looking at as its not going to encroach on either broncos (where easts & jets will) or Titans (mainly Easts will) I'm only talking about junior catchments tho. Not sure what other criteria that they are looking for in regards to avoiding cannibalizing both current SEQ teams, coz if its sponsorship, easts will be surely no good, wcen tho they might be the better bid, due to its proximity to suncorp

 

[mongoose]

With the way that it seems that the NRL is currently handling expansion the Titans have a right to be worried.

I mean that article suggests that the NRL is basically ignoring any research that they don’t like the conclusions of, and that they are running a closed bidding process for the next license. If it’s true then they are very much shooting from hip.

So yeah, considering the circumstances the Titans (and a lot of the other teams) have a right to be concerned, and I don’t begrudge them trying to protect their interests where necessary.

yeah but looks like the Titans were already against expansion before V'landys and Adbo came along.

 

[Perth Red]

One of the key points they made was about player depth - the curious thing is that there seems to be no recommendation about how to tackle that AND expand (if expansion is deemed desirable).

Assuming that growing the player base will take time, and expansion is deemed an urgent priority - does the report recommend more mergers, or demoting teams to NSW Cup, or relocations?

Or does the report make no assessment of those options?

From the sound of it, either the report doesn't touch that topic - OR there's something hidden (redacted?).

About time the plethora of reports done over the years was opened up (as much as possible) to scrutiny.

TBF it doesnt sound like the author of the article had seen the report (as evidenced by the comment at beginning about the possible size of it)

I guess the player depth fear is whats driving Abdos comments about NZ and the continued ignoring of Perth.

 

[Perth Red]

yeah but looks like the Titans were already against expansion before V'landys and Adbo came along.

Probably because they know that it is another competitor for corporates and to a lessor degree fans in SEQ. I actually think Cowboys and Storm are the two clubs potentially most impacted from player depth point of view give they both pick up players from the SEQ region.

 

[The Great Dane]

One of the key points they made was about player depth - the curious thing is that there seems to be no recommendation about how to tackle that AND expand (if expansion is deemed desirable).

The reality is that the talent pool and expansion are only tangentially linked.

Sure expansion can expand the grassroots, and thus the talent pool, but (outside of specific circumstances) you don’t necessarily need expansion to grow the grassroots, and it has little to no impact on how many kids are playing under 10s in Bundaberg if you know what I mean.

If the NRL (and other relevant bodies) hadn’t neglected the grassroots across the country for generations, then we wouldn’t be worrying about it now.

Assuming that growing the player base will take time, and expansion is deemed an urgent priority - does the report recommend more mergers, or demoting teams to NSW Cup, or relocations?

It doesn’t surprise me in the least that a report on expansion would push rationalisation.

In my ideal world the NRL would stay at 16 but still expand their geographical reach, and I think that anybody that can look at the situation rationally and without bias can see that that would be the best outcome for the NRL currently.

The article suggests that it was pushing mergers, which I wouldn’t support, but who knows exactly what is in the report considering that the author hasn’t actually read the report and is going exclusively off what others that have read the report say is in it.

From the sound of it, either the report doesn't touch that topic - OR there's something hidden (redacted?).

I doubt that anything is hidden or redacted, it’s just that only the NRL has the report to know what is in it for certain. Everybody else is just going off memory and hearsay, which is leading to confusion.

 

[The Great Dane]

I doubt that's happening, i'm pretty sure that the Moreton Bay area is where they are looking at as its not going to encroach on either broncos (where easts & jets will) or Titans (mainly Easts will) I'm only talking about junior catchments tho. Not sure what other criteria that they are looking for in regards to avoiding cannibalizing both current SEQ teams, coz if its sponsorship, easts will be surely no good, wcen tho they might be the better bid, due to its proximity to suncorp

Another team in SEQ is going to impact on the others no matter where you put it, and it doesn’t necessarily follow that because Redcliffe are further away geographically that that means that they will have less impact on the Titans.

And frankly considering what a shit show Redcliffe would be in the NRL they almost certainly would have a larger impact in certain regards than the other bids.

 

[The Great Dane]

yeah but looks like the Titans were already against expansion before V'landys and Adbo came along.

Can you really blame them given that the way things are going it seems they were justified in their concerns?

If they were trying to prevent the inevitable progress of the league then maybe you’d have a point, but the way things are going it looks like a handful of administrators in the NRL and ARLC have independently decided what they think is best for the league based on their gut feeling, and are now forcing it into reality through a sham expansion process despite their conclusions flying in the face of what any of the actual research suggests is best for the game.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Probably because they know that it is another competitor for corporates and to a lessor degree fans in SEQ. I actually think Cowboys and Storm are the two clubs potentially most impacted from player depth point of view give they both pick up players from the SEQ region.

Titans currently have the strongest team in Queensland yet they only have 7k signed up members and draw abysmal TV ratings. Give their licence to Easts and Redcliffe so the new team will have a great squad from day one to create a legitimate rivalry with the Broncos. East Coast Dolphins. Corporate support from Brisbane, Sunshine Coast and Gold Coast. Player catchment from Sunshine Coast, Moreton Bay, eastern Brisbane, Redlands, Logan and Gold Coast. The numbers stack up.

 

[Jamberoo]

Some of the key points out of that very good article.
1. Clubs are far from convinced, especially Gold Coast.
2. The original Greenberg report said 17 teams was ludicrous as it didn’t generate extra content and therefore any extra direct revenue
3. Vlandys doesn’t know what he wants, one sentence he says it’s their job to grow the game across Australia, next he says it’s all about a vibrant existing market
4. Player Depth remains a key sticking point despite it being an unmeasurable thing.

A 17th team does generate extra content - 12 more games, It adds an extra round. It just means that you have a bye each week, over 26 rounds, and a few extra byes around origin time, as opposed to the current scheduling of 25 rounds and all byes around origin time.

 

[Perth Red]

Can you really blame them given that the way things are going it seems they were justified in their concerns?

If they were trying to prevent the inevitable progress of the league then maybe you’d have a point, but the way things are going it looks like a handful of administrators in the NRL and ARLC have independently decided what they think is best for the league based on their gut feeling, and are now forcing it into reality through a sham expansion process despite their conclusions flying in the face of what any of the actual research suggests is best for the game.

Funnily enough though its probably the only way to get expansion moving! I mean we have been talking about the need for Brisbane2 and Perth since at least 2012 and other than the odd commissioned report here and there we have seen zero movement towards making it a reality. Vlandys bull in a china shop approach may be what we need in this instance to overcome the recalcitrance? The other clubs will always vote no unless there is a guaranteed $X amount on the table from TV for a new club, which wont happen until we have extra content to sell them. You could question the timing given we dont have a FTA deal and the impact of Covid on NRL finances long term is still being felt but heck Im just happy to see that someone is genuinely talking about it at long last!

 

[Jamberoo]

Titans currently have the strongest team in Queensland yet they only have 7k signed up members and draw abysmal TV ratings. Give their licence to Easts and Redcliffe so the new team will have a great squad from day one to create a legitimate rivalry with the Broncos. East Coast Dolphins. Corporate support from Brisbane, Sunshine Coast and Gold Coast. Player catchment from Sunshine Coast, Moreton Bay, eastern Brisbane, Redlands, Logan and Gold Coast. The numbers stack up.

If not Titans and only three or four games on the GC, what would virtually hand the GC over to AFL. Not sure that strengthens the game in SEQ.

 

[The Great Dane]

A 17th team does generate extra content - 12 more games, It adds an extra round. It just means that you have a bye each week, over 26 rounds, and a few extra byes around origin time, as opposed to the current scheduling of 25 rounds and all byes around origin time.

12 more games is unlikely to generate enough income to cover the costs of expansion, let alone make a profit.
An extra game in a new time slot on the other hand...

Put simply there’s no money in byes.

 

[The Great Dane]

Funnily enough though its probably the only way to get expansion moving! I mean we have been talking about the need for Brisbane2 and Perth since at least 2012 and other than the odd commissioned report here and there we have seen zero movement towards making it a reality. Vlandys bull in a china shop approach may be what we need in this instance to overcome the recalcitrance? The other clubs will always vote no unless there is a guaranteed $X amount on the table from TV for a new club, which wont happen until we have extra content to sell them. You could question the timing given we dont have a FTA deal and the impact of Covid on NRL finances long term is still being felt but heck Im just happy to see that someone is genuinely talking about it at long last!

I’d rather no expansion than the problems expansion done poorly creates, and the way things are going expansion done poorly is the most likely outcome.

 

[flippikat]

12 more games is unlikely to generate enough income to cover the costs of expansion, let alone make a profit.
An extra game in a new time slot on the other hand...

Put simply there’s no money in byes.

Spot on. I guess we can take some comfort from the fact that an odd number of teams is wasteful (why have at least one team sitting on the sidelines each week?), and even the NRL themselves acknowledge that 17 teams is a stepping stone to 18.

History backs that up - every time the competition (NSWRL, ARL, NRL) has an odd number of teams, that state doesn't last long before it returns to an even number. I give it 5-6 years TOPS.

 

[Jamberoo]

12 more games is unlikely to generate enough income to cover the costs of expansion, let alone make a profit.
An extra game in a new time slot on the other hand...

Put simply there’s no money in byes.

An extra Friday night and regular timeslots could add more than an obscure new time slot that everybody complains about. What timeslot do you suggest?