"It’s very realistic to say that we’ll have a second team in Brisbane in 2023": V'landys

[The Great Dane]

I guess the NRL is banking on the people of Brisbane wanting to see a local established brand promoted to the NRL and the feel good story around that. They must play 90% of games at Suncorp otherwise its a waste of time, but If the NRL and whichever club gets picked can market it the right way - sell it as a story of a local battling community club stepping up into the big time I think it could definitely work.

Brisbane media is extremely pro-rugby league, more so than the Sydney media. They will promote the hell out of the new club no matter who it is.

How can you possibly sell the story of 'a local battling community club' when they are richer and more successful than most of the NRL clubs, and are only in the position of being in the NRL because they out competed the other, really battling in some cases, community clubs.

I mean who do you think the average punter is going to identify with more, their little club they've loved and played for their whole life, or the rich privileged club that lorded over them and could buy it's way into the NRL?

Going on the average reaction of Sydney fans to all of the Super League proposals I think it's more than safe to assume that the majority will identify with the prior.

 

[Jamberoo]

Sigh... Selling out your allocation of season tickets doesn't mean that you will sell out every game, they are two different things. BTW, Freo's jump in members and attendance in 03 coincided with them making the finals for the first time, so yeah...

You also don't need to appeal to a niche regional market to create an derby and intercity rivalry.

It's basic mathematics; the product that can appeal to a larger consumer base will sell more than the others. Yes you can you find the odd exception to the rule, Green Bay being the most famous in sport, but they are the exception that proves the rule.

There is no ‘allocation’ of season tickets. It was not difficult to get tickets to Eagles games in the years before or after Freo joined. Some seasons half the games attracted under 30k in a 44k stadium. Your point was that Freo was only a success in a part of Perth comparable with Redcliffe was because it was not possible to go to Eagles games. This is false.

 

[mongoose]

How can you possibly sell the story of 'a local battling community club' when they are richer and more successful than most of the NRL clubs, and are only in the position of being in the NRL because they out competed the other, really battling in some cases, community clubs.

I mean who do you think the average punter is going to identify with more, their little club they've loved and played for their whole life, or the rich privileged club that lorded over them and could buy it's way into the NRL?

Going on the average reaction of Sydney fans to all of the Super League proposals I think it's more than safe to assume that the majority will identify with the prior.

It's QLD though, they always see themselves as the underdog and poor cousins to NSW. Even Broncos fans think their club is hard done by lol

 

[The Great Dane]

There is no ‘allocation’ of season tickets. It was not difficult to get tickets to Eagles games in the years before or after Freo joined. Some seasons half the games attracted under 30k in a 44k stadium. Your point was that Freo was only a success in a part of Perth comparable with Redcliffe was because it was not possible to go to Eagles games. This is false.

Sigh... Every team has a limited supply of season tickets and ticketed memberships that they can sell because they have to leave room in the stadium for away support and other ticket sales, in other words they can't just sell every seat to members. So yes there is an allocation of season tickets and ticketed memberships, and yes the Wests Coasts Eagles have sold them out for decades.

Here's a link to their membership page, notice this bit-

Please note: Reserved Seat and Flexi memberships are unavailable for purchase at this time. Members must progress through the In The Wings waitlist category of membership before they are entitled to access membership options at Optus Stadium.

That is the ticketed membership waitlist, and here's an article from 2018 about how they still can't meet demand despite the new stadium increasing capacity. Estimates of how many people are on the waiting list varies widely as well. I've seen anything between 10ish-50ish thousand suggested, the only people that probably know the real numbers are the Eagles and the AFL.

The way the West Coast Eagles do it is to get on the waitlist for a seated ticket you have to buy what they call an 'in the wings membership' annually, which basically buys you a place on the waiting list and keeps your place in it. Then from there you have to wait on that until a ticketed membership becomes available that they can offer for you to buy. That wait can take years (though I'm sure there's been massive churn because of covid), especially if you want more than a of couple seats, and after all that waiting you won't get a season ticket, you'll get a 3 game membership then have to wait for a 5 game membership to become available, and so on before eventually you'll make your way up the line and a season membership becomes available.

This not only makes Freo memberships more accessible, in that you can more or less just walk up and buy one of their season tickets, but it also makes them way less expensive with a Freo season ticket costing $269, while a WC Eagles season ticket starts at $410 and their median season ticket (i.e. the one that is closest in value to Freo's season ticket) costs $630.

This has lead to a lot of West Coast Eagles fans jumping ship to Freo and that has significantly boosted Freo's popularity in a way that simply isn't applicable to anything that is going on in the NRL.

 

[The Great Dane]

It's QLD though, they always see themselves as the underdog and poor cousins to NSW. Even Broncos fans think their club is hard done by lol

Their most direct competition won't be with NSW or the NSW clubs though, it'll be with the Broncos and other local RL clubs. That totally changes the dynamic.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

I'm sure that if you go though my thousands of posts that you can find plenty of contradictions. In fact if you go back to some of my very early posts you can find me advocating for the Valley Diehards to get an NRL license.

It's totally normal for people to change their minds as they think on things and are presented new evidence.

I'm sorry but this (and other similar examples) aren't opinions, they are undeniable events, that happened because of well researched trends in social and evolutionary psychology. I mean this is all extremely basic in-group and out-group stuff (look it up).

Those aren't simply opinions, you have to address them and at least try to explain why the Dolphins and Jets will be different to other teams that have attempted exactly what they are attempting and failed, and why people in Brisbane won't follow the observed patterns of human behaviour.

I fully expect you to just ignore all that and continue to pretend that I haven't presented anything, like you always do, which again is why this discussion isn't worth the time.

I'm glad you've thoroughly read all three bid agreements to base your opinion on. I assume you have based on the position you are taking.

 

[Jamberoo]

Sigh... Every team has a limited supply of season tickets and ticketed memberships that they can sell because they have to leave room in the stadium for away support and other ticket sales, in other words they can't just sell every seat to members. So yes there is an allocation of season tickets and ticketed memberships, and yes the Wests Coasts Eagles have sold them out for decades.

Here's a link to their membership page, notice this bit-


That is the ticketed membership waitlist, and here's an article from 2018 about how they still can't meet demand despite the new stadium increasing capacity. Estimates of how many people are on the waiting list varies widely as well. I've seen anything between 10ish-50ish thousand suggested, the only people that probably know the real numbers are the Eagles and the AFL.

The way the West Coast Eagles do it is to get on the waitlist for a seated ticket you have to buy what they call an 'in the wings membership' annually, which basically buys you a place on the waiting list and keeps your place in it. Then from there you have to wait on that until a ticketed membership becomes available that they can offer for you to buy. That wait can take years (though I'm sure there's been massive churn because of covid), especially if you want more than a of couple seats, and after all that waiting you won't get a season ticket, you'll get a 3 game membership then have to wait for a 5 game membership to become available, and so on before eventually you'll make your way up the line and a season membership becomes available.

This not only makes Freo memberships more accessible, in that you can more or less just walk up and buy one of their season tickets, but it also makes them way less expensive with a Freo season ticket costing $269, while a WC Eagles season ticket starts at $410 and their median season ticket (i.e. the one that is closest in value to Freo's season ticket) costs $630.

This has lead to a lot of West Coast Eagles fans jumping ship to Freo and that has significantly boosted Freo's popularity in a way that simply isn't applicable to anything that is going on in the NRL.

Sigh? Really?

We are comparing the Perth situation in 1993 with the Bris2 now. So, 2018 or the current situation is not relevant. Eagles reserved seats were not sold out in 1993 - it was possible to get tickets as I have stated and re-stated. In fact, they had 25K members and a 43K stadium in 1993. So, demand did not exceed supply. In fact, it was not until 2006 that all seating was sold out. I know it is hard to admit a mistake but next time check the facts my friend.

 

[Perth Red]

Sigh? Really?

We are comparing the Perth situation in 1993 with the Bris2 now. So, 2018 or the current situation is not relevant. Eagles reserved seats were not sold out in 1993 - it was possible to get tickets as I have stated and re-stated. In fact, they had 25K members and a 43K stadium in 1993. So, demand did not exceed supply. In fact, it was not until 2006 that all seating was sold out. I know it is hard to admit a mistake but next time check the facts my friend.

Not that I think it very relevant as they are two very different scenarios given the difference between the two sports but, the Dockers really struggled for their first 20 years losing a lot of money ($8mill in debt in 2002) and being very much a small brother to Eagles. It wasn't until 1. Eagles sold out every week 2. they actually started playing some reasonable football 3. Perth population boomed and 4. woodside got behind them that they started to perform on and off the field. Dockers crowd increase very much mirrored Eagles getting to max capacity in membership sales around 2002/3. From memory they had around 30k full memberships to sell as the rest of the 42k capacity had to be set aside for away fans, corporate and casuals. Dockers were pretty consistent 21-23k avg until Eagles hit capacity then jumped up to 32k plus since then. Not surprisingly as soon as their attendances hit 34k plus they became financially very profitable. Something current NRL clubs could learn a lesson from!!

 

[The Great Dane]

Sigh? Really?

We are comparing the Perth situation in 1993 with the Bris2 now. So, 2018 or the current situation is not relevant. Eagles reserved seats were not sold out in 1993 - it was possible to get tickets as I have stated and re-stated. In fact, they had 25K members and a 43K stadium in 1993. So, demand did not exceed supply. In fact, it was not until 2006 that all seating was sold out. I know it is hard to admit a mistake but next time check the facts my friend.

I never said anything about 1993, you brought it up even though as a singular data point it is utterly irrelevant. It's especially irrelevant when considering that it was at least a decade before Fremantle grew into their own. The exact moment they came good is debatable, but it was definitely after they A. made the finals for the first time, and B. West Coast seasons tickets had sold out, both of which happened about 00-03, i.e. a roughly a decade after 93.

And I'm not the one refusing to admit a mistake or didn't check the facts, that is you mister 'there is no ‘allocation’ of season tickets'.

 

[The Great Dane]

I'm glad you've thoroughly read all three bid agreements to base your opinion on. I assume you have based on the position you are taking.

I have read all the relevant information publicly available on each of the bids except the Jets bid since the merger (haven't had time, and there's very little available from the club it's self last time I looked), but I wouldn't have to had read it for my criticism of the Dolphins to be valid.

Did you look into what I sent you? I bet you didn't did you, but that's because you aren't an honest actor.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

I have read all the relevant information publicly available on each of the bids except the Jets bid since the merger (haven't had time, and there's very little available from the club it's self last time I looked), but I wouldn't have to had read it for my criticism of the Dolphins to be valid.

Did you look into what I sent you? I bet you didn't did you, but that's because you aren't an honest actor.

Why would I look into anything you send me when you are spouting a bunch of rubbish as fact when you, like everyone else, hasn't actually read the bid documents. You have no idea if the bids are actually impressive or not or how they plan to tackle the challenges ahead of them.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Firehawks has to be the only bid worth considering for a second team that will be based out of Lang Park and marketed as a club for everyone in the Greater Brisbane area.

Jets and Dolphins should be bidding to come in as a regional team in 10 years time based out of a boutique stadium.

 

[blaza88z]

Firehawks has to be the only bid worth considering for a second team that will be based out of Lang Park and marketed as a club for everyone in the Greater Brisbane area.

Jets and Dolphins should be bidding to come in as a regional team in 10 years time based out of a boutique stadium.

I could make a case for Redcliffe but Ipswich for mine isn't even in Brisbane

 

[Jamberoo]

Not that I think it very relevant as they are two very different scenarios given the difference between the two sports but, the Dockers really struggled for their first 20 years losing a lot of money ($8mill in debt in 2002) and being very much a small brother to Eagles. It wasn't until 1. Eagles sold out every week 2. they actually started playing some reasonable football 3. Perth population boomed and 4. woodside got behind them that they started to perform on and off the field. Dockers crowd increase very much mirrored Eagles getting to max capacity in membership sales around 2002/3. From memory they had around 30k full memberships to sell as the rest of the 42k capacity had to be set aside for away fans, corporate and casuals. Dockers were pretty consistent 21-23k avg until Eagles hit capacity then jumped up to 32k plus since then. Not surprisingly as soon as their attendances hit 34k plus they became financially very profitable. Something current NRL clubs could learn a lesson from!!

Is the lesson that clubs will find it hard to be profitable in stadiums that are too big for them?

 

[Perth Red]

Is the lesson that clubs will find it hard to be profitable in stadiums that are too big for them?

The lesson is you need a lot of fans to make you money

 

[Perth Red]

With Brisbane winning the Olympics there is planned to be upgrades for Sunshine Coast (16.5k) , toowoomba and cairns stadiums (20k). Probably none of them to nrl standard but if there was massive expansion and sunny coast or png /cairns were in consideration then there would be better facilities to start from come 2032.

 

[Mr Angry]

So make a call....

Getting late to start.

 

[Perth Red]

So make a call....

Getting late to start.

Classic problem of autocratic leadership. When the leader gets busy with other things decisions dont get made.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

With Brisbane winning the Olympics there is planned to be upgrades for Sunshine Coast (16.5k) , toowoomba and cairns stadiums (20k). Probably none of them to nrl standard but if there was massive expansion and sunny coast or png /cairns were in consideration then there would be better facilities to start from come 2032.

A 10k fumbleball ground is under construction in Ipswich for the Brisbane Lions women's and reserve grade team.

I read that Sunshine Coast Stadium will be upgraded to 20k. I don't know if that's good or bad for the Dolphins. If a stadium is built there then I cannot see any popping up in Moreton Bay. I am not convinced they can draw enough fans from Brisbane and the Sunshine Coast while they're a Moreton Bay club.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

A 10k fumbleball ground is under construction in Ipswich for the Brisbane Lions women's and reserve grade team.

I read that Sunshine Coast Stadium will be upgraded to 20k. I don't know if that's good or bad for the Dolphins. If a stadium is built there then I cannot see any popping up in Moreton Bay. I am not convinced they can draw enough fans from Brisbane and the Sunshine Coast while they're a Moreton Bay club.

The Dolphins will be called Brisbane and play at Suncorp mate so most people won't give a sh!t where their training base is, certainly not the next generation of kids that they will target as future supporters.