"It’s very realistic to say that we’ll have a second team in Brisbane in 2023": V'landys

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

2 more Brisbane teams would be great but not before Perth gets 1

It's ridiculous that our game hasn't had a team in Perth since 1997.

If they go with Brisbane 2 and 3 now them there should be a plan to add Perth and NZ 2 in 2027. COVID-19 should be done and dusted by then and it'll give the game enough time to build the foundations for West Coast Pirates and NZ 2 to be strong from inception.

Brisbane 2 and 3 can afford to have a few lean years because they have strong Leagues clubs propping them up in an RL mad city that only has one AwFuL club. Perth and NZ 2 will need a helping hand as they're up against numerous AwFuL and RU juggernauts.

In the 2030s there can be a plan to add Adelaide and NZ 3.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

You do realise the Illawarra part of St George Illawarra stretches near to Batemans Bay ?

It's just the same old St George Dragons club, albeit one that plays a few games in Wollongong and has Illawarra in its title.

Regional clubs might struggle to survive long term. Cowboys and Knights have struggled at various points of their existence. When one is strong the other is weak. Knights would still be a basketcase if they didn't plunder the Cowboys roster.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

[re: Adding 2 Brisbane teams]


It's an ultra-conservative move - but the sport has a bigger history of being conservative than it does of being bold, as far as expansion goes.

With Covid making interstate travel difficult, nevermind trans-Tasman travel - I can see how the NRL could be spooked into jumping at Brisbane clubs for 17 AND 18, instead of using that 18th spot for something like Perth or NZ 2.

That's conservative AND extremely short-sighted, given that an 18th team (and 9th game per weekend) is unlikely before the next rights cycle starts in 2028, when Covid surely should be in the rear-view mirror

Great points.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

If they plan to ever introduce Bris3, they need to do it the same time as Bris2 or Bris3 will have a very hard time to build a fan base. Now or never.

I agree.

 

[The Great Dane]

[re: Adding 2 Brisbane teams]


It's an ultra-conservative move - but the sport has a bigger history of being conservative than it does of being bold, as far as expansion goes.

With Covid making interstate travel difficult, nevermind trans-Tasman travel - I can see how the NRL could be spooked into jumping at Brisbane clubs for 17 AND 18, instead of using that 18th spot for something like Perth or NZ 2.

That's conservative AND extremely short-sighted, given that an 18th team (and 9th game per weekend) is unlikely before the next rights cycle starts in 2028, when Covid surely should be in the rear-view mirror

Even with COVID it'd make little to no commercial sense considering what'd be left on the table, so I can't see them being spooked into it.

If they do add two new teams in Brisbane, which I don't rule out as a possibility BTW, then they'd do it deliberately as they either see it as the best for the future for the sport or because of short term financial incentives from broadcasters, sponsors, corporates, and/or bidders.

I also reckon that the Qld clubs, Melbourne, and probably a lot of the other clubs as well, would fight them hard if they tried to bring in two clubs in the Brisbane metro area in quick succession, as that'd almost certainly cannibalise their fanbases pretty badly. You might even see the clubs employ old school 80s-90s tactics to try and weaken the new clubs.

I also think that Abdo let the cat out of the bag a bit when he was talking about NZ earlier in the year, and that NZ has been brought up in their discussions behind closed doors and is probably where V'landys intends to go next so long as it's feasible.

 

[Pippen94]

Firstly, you are delusional if you think [insert smaller club here] is a requirement for the broadcast deal to be as big as it.

Secondly, it makes no difference how big the broadcast deal is when the majority of it goes back into supporting failed businesses.

Clubs with fans who watch game are important for broadcasting deal. Hence TV not pushing for Perth team.

Your second comment is bullshit. These clubs are bringing in biggest income game has seen. Get rid of them & bring in more Canberra type clubs & NRL go backwards

 

[Brick Tamland]

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/ex...t-time-for-nrl-expansion-20210812-p58iaz.html

‘Extremely surprising’: Clubs say now not the right time for NRL expansion​

By Christian Nicolussi​

Club bosses have questioned the need for a 17th team in the NRL and said now was the wrong time to bring expansion back on to the agenda.
After the Sydney clubs revealed last week they were facing a $20m loss in gate takings alone because of the competition’s relocation to Queensland, there are fears the financial strain will only be made worse if a second Brisbane franchise is introduced in time for the 2024 season.


After a phone hook-up with ARL Commission chairman Peter V’Landys last month, clubs believed the COVID-19 situation had put the competing bids from the Firehawks, Jets and Dolphins on the backburner.
But V’Landys was quoted in a News Corp report on Thursday admitting he hoped to formally interview the franchises within the next fortnight.

“We were focused on the COVID situation and now we are turning our attention to expansion,” V’Landys told The Courier-Mail.
“We have all the documentation from the bid teams, so now it’s a matter of speaking to them and we will do that in the next week or two.”


Penrith CEO Brian Fletcher, who told the Herald last week the Panthers would lose between $3.5m to $4m in the coming months with no games at home, said there was no business in the world thinking of expanding during the pandemic.
“I only found out expansion was back on the table today,” Fletcher said. “I was of the understanding expansion was off the table until we got back to some normality with the pandemic.

“I’m a bit surprised they’re talking about it again now. It’s a bit premature to tell a franchise to come forward, even if isn’t about coming in until 2023 or 2024.”
South Sydney CEO Blake Solly said: “We’ve been told over and over again by the NRL that everybody’s priority must be completing this year’s competition. Two weeks ago, we weren’t even sure that would be the case.

“So it’s now extremely surprising, even though there has been no improvement with the COVID situation in NSW, that we’re now talking about expansion. It was only a week ago we were assured this was not happening.
“We have no understanding of where the NRL is at with the free-to-air broadcast negotiations, and very little information about their financial position. The 16 clubs in the competition at the moment should be the NRL’s priority.”

​

Melbourne chairman Matt Tripp, who also only learned of the fresh expansion talk on Thursday, said: “Like always, I expect there will be consultation and a process where clubs will be able to have some involvement, we can give our two bobs worth and hopefully come up with a right answer for the good of the game.”
While clubs are struggling to generate revenue, the NRL has also been sweating on crowds returning to games in Queensland to boost their coffers. The NRL has footed the bill for all players and their families to stay north of the border.
Last weekend’s round played behind closed doors because of the Queensland lockdown cost the NRL around $1m in revenue.
The Dolphins have the chance to vote with their feet on Sunday when they host an NRL double-header at their Redcliffe base.
The expansion franchises are desperate to join the NRL and made it clear they will be financially ready to go in 2023 if needed. The decision on the next franchise, which News Corp suggested could be made in the coming months, will also have serious ramifications on the player market with many wanting to know what will happen before committing their futures elsewhere.

 

[Perth Red]

Clubs with fans who watch game are important for broadcasting deal. Hence TV not pushing for Perth team.

Your second comment is bullshit. These clubs are bringing in biggest income game has seen. Get rid of them & bring in more Canberra type clubs & NRL go backwards

Value is in extra content rather than new viewers. Brisbane 2 isn’t going to bring new viewers, people in brisbane are already watching nrl. It just means a bit of a boost when they play as brisbane people unsurprisingly tune in more when it’s a qlnd team playing. The nz deal is locked in for 5 years so adding nz brings in no new money from nz for some time.
Reality is it’s the extra game content that has value and you can add any team anywhere to get that. The game needs to decide strategically if it wants to use that spot to grow the game into new markets or just continue to consolidate existing markets. Under Vlandys it doesn’t want to grow, just consolidate. Hopefully by the ti e a decision on the 18th team comes along we will have a more visionary chairman and ceo.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Most of the QRL/BRL clubs don't start and stop at first grade, most of them run juniors and lower grade teams and have done so for generations. In other words you don't need to be an active supporter of one of the QRL clubs first grade teams to identify with them or to identify them as an out group, as the average RL fan in Brisbane literally grew up playing against them in most age groups.

In other words generations of RL fans in Brisbane have grown up in an environment were they see the QRL clubs (and other local RL clubs) as other tribes that they are in direct conflict with, and that is extremely bad for the prospects of converting those people into fans of those clubs at higher levels.

I mean do you really think that the average person is going to play against e.g. the Dolphins in the morning then support them in the afternoon?
Some undoubtedly will, but history shows us that the majority won't.

You're reading into it way too much mate. I played for Wynnum Manly juniors and I'd be happy for any of the current Brisbane based QLD Cup clubs to get a gig at NRL level provided they are a good fit. @Get Rid of The Donkeys has also stated that he'd happily put Q Cup rivalries aside if Easts or Redcliffe got a run in the NRL.

 

[The Great Dane]

You're reading into it way too much mate. I played for Wynnum Manly juniors and I'd be happy for any of the current Brisbane based QLD Cup clubs to get a gig at NRL level provided they are a good fit. @Get Rid of The Donkeys has also stated that he'd happily put Q Cup rivalries aside if Easts or Redcliffe got a run in the NRL.

I'm not reading to much into anything, you're just embarrassingly clueless.

I'll link it again-https://www.theroar.com.au/2014/03/...ll-be-a-red-and-white-failure/comment-page-4/

There's also a lot of solid research into in group out group bias and how it effects sport as well that, broadly speaking, backs what I'm saying (just google it).

That's not a couple of lame anecdotes like what you're presenting, it's a specific example of a club doing what the Dolphins are attempting, and it being an absolute shitshow, and some very uncontroversial observations of patterns of human behaviour that can be seen throughout human society.

By refusing to even address either you are taking your position as an article of faith, and at this point in my life I don't have time for that kind of BS.

 

[The Great Dane]

Clubs with fans who watch game are important for broadcasting deal. Hence TV not pushing for Perth team.

Your second comment is bullshit. These clubs are bringing in biggest income game has seen. Get rid of them & bring in more Canberra type clubs & NRL go backwards

This sort of attitude is why the AFL is bigger and more successful than the NRL, and why it will continue to outgrow the NRL into the future.

There's a great book I'm reading called Code Wars by Dr Hunter Fujak, you should read it.

 

[Billythekid]

We’re squabbling about if we can enter 1 new team to the NRL (despite having areas screaming out for a team). Meanwhile the AFLW has now expanded to 18 teams and more than the NRL. The NRL just keeps getting left behind and it’s frustrating.

Im not going to rehash decades old arguments that we’ve all had on here but I agree with the above. The NRL had the ability to be the number 1 sport in Australia and use that as a springboard to push onto the international stage. But we’re always too cautious to expand and constantly left behind. I think the worst part is that somehow despite constantly avoiding expansion we still manage to neglect our heartlands.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

I'm not reading to much into anything, you're just embarrassingly clueless.

I'll link it again-https://www.theroar.com.au/2014/03/...ll-be-a-red-and-white-failure/comment-page-4/

There's also a lot of solid research into in group out group bias and how it effects sport as well that, broadly speaking, backs what I'm saying (just google it).

That's not a couple of lame anecdotes like what you're presenting, it's a specific example of a club doing what the Dolphins are attempting, and it being an absolute shitshow, and some very uncontroversial observations of patterns of human behaviour that can be seen throughout human society.

By refusing to even address either you are taking your position as an article of faith, and at this point in my life I don't have time for that kind of BS.

I cannot support the Souths Logan Magpies at Queensland Cup level because they've never tried to embrace Logan and have no affiliation with the defunct Logan City Scorpions. If they were to rebrand as Logan Magpies and relocate permanently to Logan then I might be able to adopt them, but I would never feel as passionate about them as I do about the Logan City Scorpions. Black and white is bland and Scorpions sounds much better, at least in my opinion.

Easts Tigers entering as the Brisbane Firehawks is something I can support. Easts has a long history of running junior clubs out of the eastern suburbs of Logan and have acknowledged Logan as part of their catchment. Plus I grew up in Easts territory before moving from Brisbane to Logan. Magpies last had a team in Logan in 1982. Souths Woodridge Magpies. That's almost 40 years ago.

RU fans are a snobby and elitist mob who form petty rivalries over the dumbest reasons. RL fans are more down to Earth and inclusive. Brisbane and Canberra have different cultural patterns.

 

[Perth Red]

. I think the worst part is that somehow despite constantly avoiding expansion we still manage to neglect our heartlands.

that’s the staggering bit, you could almost wear the games lack of ambition to grow if it all the billions they’ve spent in the last decade meant the heartlands were going gangbusters, but in reality they aren’t any stronger than 30 years ago!

here’s a staggering stat, the arlc have had $3.5billion to spend in the last ten years, can you honestly say the games strength and growth reflects that sort of expenditure??

 

[RedVee]

It's just the same old St George Dragons club, albeit one that plays a few games in Wollongong and has Illawarra in its title.

Regional clubs might struggle to survive long term. Cowboys and Knights have struggled at various points of their existence. When one is strong the other is weak. Knights would still be a basketcase if they didn't plunder the Cowboys roster.

Actually it is the opposite of that.
They train full time in Wollongong and have since 2009 and are controlled by the Wollongong based Gordon family of WIN Corp.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Actually it is the opposite of that.
They train full time in Wollongong and have since 2009 and are controlled by the Wollongong based Gordon family of WIN Corp.

Should they become the Illawarra Dragons, based full-time out of Wollongong with all 12 games at Wollongong Stadium?

 

[Perth Red]

Should they become the Illawarra Dragons, based full-time out of Wollongong with all 12 games at Wollongong Stadium?

No, theres not enough money to do that. Sponsorship money is in Sydney. We have 4 regional clubs (inc canberra) 2 have gone bust recently and the others survive due largely to Pokies.

clubs only need to generate around $12mill a year but in a regional centre even that is a hard ask.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

No, theres not enough money to do that. Sponsorship money is in Sydney. We have 4 regional clubs (inc canberra) 2 have gone bust recently and the others survive due largely to Pokies.

clubs only need to generate around $12mill a year but in a regional centre even that is a hard ask.

It will be hard for the NRL to keep the Dragons, Sea Eagles and Sharks alive over the next 20 years.

If Roosters develop a supporter base on the North Shore and Rabbitohs make inroads in Southern Sydney then who will want to sponsor the Dragons, Sea Eagles and Sharks?

Suburban grounds will not be acceptable by then.

 

[Brick Tamland]

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/be...hs-have-vested-interests-20210813-p58ilh.html

Bennett says clubs against NRL expansion - including Souths - have ‘vested interests’​

By Sarah Keoghan​

Rabbitohs coach Wayne Bennett has hit back at club chief executives - including his boss at South Sydney - who question the need for a 17th team in the NRL, saying they have ‘vested interests’.
Bennett, who is in the sights of Queensland franchises if a new club is added to the NRL, said on Friday the governing body should not be listening to the clubs if it wishes to develop and grow as a game.
Australian Rugby League Commission boss Peter V’landys surprised clubs when he revealed talks about the expansion were back on the table following a pause due to COVID-19.


League bosses are now set to meet with three Queensland teams who are hopeful to win the bid for the 17th team within the next fortnight.

The news has upset Sydney clubs, who say they are suffering heavily financially due to the competition moving to Queensland, following the outbreak. Club bosses - including Souths CEO Blake Solly - told the Herald on Thursday they fear the financial situation within the NRL will only worsen if the competition expands.
“We have no understanding of where the NRL is at with the free-to-air broadcast negotiations, and very little information about their financial position. The 16 clubs in the competition at the moment should be the NRL’s priority,” Solly said.
Bennett disagrees with Solly and argues the NRL and clubs will benefit long-term from growth within the competition. Bennett will finish with Souths at the end of 2021 and is being targeted as a coach by Queensland franchise bidders.
“If we listen to the other clubs, we would never have had expansion,” Bennett said.
“We would certainly never have had State of Origin, we probably wouldn’t have Test football. There’s always a vested interest party out there and that’s the other clubs.”

Bennett said clubs in Sydney don’t understand the booming interest of rugby league in south-east areas of Queensland and said the timing is ideal given Brisbane had just won the 2032 Olympics bid.

“Anyone that runs a successful business will tell you that you can either get bigger and stronger, or if you try to sit and at the same level, then you won’t improve and you won’t get better,” Bennett said.
“Clubs are a major a part of the problem. At the moment, they’re having a tough time because they’ve lost a fair bit of revenue. So they like to think there’d be more revenue coming their way than if there are less teams.”
Bennett also refuted the argument there is not enough talent within the NRL and said other coaches were to blame for not getting the best out of their players.

​

“I’m honestly confident that if I had an opportunity to coach that team, I could put a pretty successful team together pretty quickly with a bit of help from other people,” Bennett said.
“From a personal point of view, from a game point of view that I’ve been involved in all my life, I think it’s the next thing for us to do.”

 

[Perth Red]

Clubs have had the begging bowl out every tv deal and have had massive grant increases with no kpi’s or strings attached. And here we are with them wanting to stunt the games growth because the begging bowls are empty again. nrl needs to remind them it’s only a couple of years ago they got a massive grant increase that is now more than $3million a year above the players salaries! They got an extra $1.5mill last year and over $1mill extra so far this year Plus significant govt funds last year from job keeper. Memberships for most clubs are up this year.
but I guess the arlc only have themselves to blame for giving the clubs so much power when they had the chance in 2012 to create a genuinely independent commission to run the game And totally fluffed it.