"It’s very realistic to say that we’ll have a second team in Brisbane in 2023": V'landys

[siv]

Maybe Ipswich & Toowoomba-Newtown form a joint venture and call themselves the Jets

Then we add CC Bears

 

[Captain Apollo]

CC Bears is pie in the sky. Any further expansion beyond 17 teams will be outside the Newcastle-Sydney-Wollongong axis.

 

[steeden.]

Perhaps it’s silly but I’m all for Brisbane remaining a one-team town. I’d much rather see Redcliffe, Sunshine Coast, and Ipswich all be added. Maybe even Logan if population growth warrants it. Have a town vs town rivalry (which already exists) rather than eating into an actual town itself.

 

[flippikat]

CC Bears is pie in the sky. Any further expansion beyond 17 teams will be outside the Newcastle-Sydney-Wollongong axis.

Spot on. The only ways the Bears could come back is if an existing Sydney club goes under (fat chance), or if a non-Sydney expansion club either partners with Norths (unlikely) or somehow licenses their intellectual property (so unlikely I even chuckled while typing that).

I actually suspect a future expansion bid will try to bring back red & black jerseys - it's a strong, traditional sports colour scheme thats sorely missing from the NRL. But it won't be the Bears.

 

[Dogs Of War]

Personally given I live out in the Wynumn-Manly area and can tell you that everybody supports the Bronco's who is a local (Plenty of ex-pats like me who have stuck solid with our Sydney teams). It's probably best if it's the Redcliffe Bid. Then you can tap into the Sunshine Coast area and really make that work. I'd prefer they became the Sunshine Coast Dolphins though than the Redcliffe or Brisbane Dolphins.

Firehawks is really just cannibalising the Broncos, while the less said about the Bombers the better.

That said, I have no doubt Redcliffe and Easts work cause they have pathways setup already. It's just taking that to the next level. I'm sure if your club has QLD players who are good, you will be looking to lock them in just so they can't be stolen.

 

[steeden.]

Agreed. Redcliffe is too geographically limiting, but Sunshine Coast is a massive area.

Wonder if the Falcons will try for a bid.

 

[The Great Dane]

I disagree with this. I'd rather they have a crap team in 2023 than no team. They can have a crap team then still get it together for 2024.

That's not how the salary cap works.

Unless you can convince a bunch of players to sign on bad deals you are going to be stuck with the bones of that crap team for years to come, and you'll struggle to bring in good players to replace them when they leave.

Also all it takes is one bad season and you can poison the market for years to come, and expansion clubs simply can't afford that.

 

[pennywisealfie]

Brisbane 2 gives Brisbane non-Broncos fans an opportunity to watch NRL without watching (or financially providing to) the Broncos. I think this point is lost on a lot of people

Too bad, go to the Broncos games.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Exactly. They create a good north/south of the river divide, are backed by a traditional Brisbane club, AND are centrally based & not out on the city fringes.

Redcliffe and/or Ipswich may have their time - ideally when Sydney reduces by a club or two, to bring better balance to the comp - but right now, IMO the Firebirds bid is the best of the bunch.

I think Dolphins should wait until Moreton Bay has close to a million people, or at least 750,000. That way it can justify having its own boutique stadium of 25k or 30k.

 

[The Great Dane]

Yes, but are people not saying that there is not enough chocolate to go around (only one game a week), or some people love chocolate (RL), but just not that particular chocolate (Broncos), therefore people will try salted caramel only to find that they like it better?
Why do you think that AFL has two teams in every market?

I agree that there's demand for a greater verity of chocolate products in Brisbane. However that demand for more chocolate still has no impact on the demand for strawberry and vanilla because it isn't the strawberry and vanilla fans that are creating that demand, it's the chocolate fans that are creating that demand. So again you can flood the market with as many chocolate products as you like, but there'll still always be demand for the other flavours.

Also just because there is demand for more verity of chocolate products that doesn't mean that the market can support a bunch more of them. In fact oversupplying in respond to a real demand is one of the worst things a company can do, because what happens is you split the demand between to many products and that leaves you with a consumer base too small to support any of various new products individually, when as a whole the consumer base could have supported just one new product and it would have been a raging success.

When that oversupply happens you end up with a bunch of the products being commercial failures, and maybe it's just me but I don't think the NRL can afford to have a bunch of commercial failures.

 

[The Great Dane]

Agreed. Redcliffe is too geographically limiting, but Sunshine Coast is a massive area.

Wonder if the Falcons will try for a bid.

It's hard to explain just what a bad idea introducing the Sunshine Coast over a second Brisbane club would be.

Let's just put it this way; it would be absolutely insane to target a market of 333k, that is spread over a reasonably large geographical area and as such has low population density, weak public transport over that region, and a stadium that is a glorified park by NRL standards, over a market of 2.6mil, that has much higher population density, way more commercial opportunities, way better public transport, etc, etc.

You'd basically be choosing to create the smallest, least profitable, club in the league, over creating a club that could, and should be if done right, one of the biggest most valuable clubs in the country.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

I wouldn't even call it an expectation of immediate success.

I'd say that it's hard to build a fan base when you lose all the time, and if you're a new club without a pre-existing fan base that is large enough to support the team (i.e. almost every expansion team), it makes it very hard to survive the lean period if you start off with a lean period because you haven't built a support base to survive off.

Let me put it this way, do you think the, e.g., Crushers attendance more than halves in a couple of seasons and they are quickly punted if they are genuine contenders for a premiership throughout their existence? Probably not right.
If they made the GF instead of being spooners 1997, then odds are that they survive the SL war, and (their financial issues and attempted sabotage aside) there's a good chance that we aren't talking about a second Brisbane side because they are still around today.

I agree that a winning team has a far greater chance of building a supporter base, but it should never come at the expense of the other clubs.

How many clubs have missed out on being successful over the last 20 years because so much money has been invested in the Storm by the the company who owned 50% of the game and had a say in how everything was run?

It's been great for the Melbourne Storm, but how many fans from other clubs have been lost to the game because they are sick of Murdoch's favourites getting every advantage under the sun to win at everyone else's expense?

The same thing was done with the Broncos in the 90s, to the detriment of the Crushers, Chargers and Cowboys.

I don't mind a new club getting some advantages over the first three years of their admission to help them survive and establish themselves, but the Storm have been allowed to manipulate the rules to the point that the game became slow, predictable and alien to RL fans. People want to see line breaks, skillful halves and fast centres/wingers with ball in hand. Hit up after hit up with gang tackles to slow it down and reset the defensive line is boring.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Brisbane 2 gives Brisbane non-Broncos fans an opportunity to watch NRL without watching (or financially providing to) the Broncos. I think this point is lost on a lot of people

It also allows fans of the Cowboys, Titans, Warriors, Storm and Sydney clubs who live in Brisbane to have another game that they can attend. The Dragons have strong support in Brisbane. Giving them the opportunity to play 3 games a year in SEQ will be great for them.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

On that argument, NRL already has two teams in Brisbane / SEQ market.

The Titans are finally on way up. Will they be decimated like 1995 to bring a 2nd Brisbane team again?

Gold Coast and Brisbane are geographically isolated. The two cities have nothing in common. Good luck getting people from Brisbane, Moreton Bay, Ipswich and Logan to adopt the Titans. The only part of Logan that might get on the Titans bandwagon are those who live in areas that used to be part of Gold Coast but are now in Logan, like Beenleigh.

It's like telling Penrith fans that they can go support Easts at the SFS.

Perhaps it’s silly but I’m all for Brisbane remaining a one-team town. I’d much rather see Redcliffe, Sunshine Coast, and Ipswich all be added. Maybe even Logan if population growth warrants it. Have a town vs town rivalry (which already exists) rather than eating into an actual town itself.

I think that can work. Logan would have the best chance of succeeding as RL is stronger there than in Brisbane, and its population is set to boom with new estates in Yarrabilba and Flagstone.

 

[The Great Dane]

I agree that a winning team has a far greater chance of building a supporter base, but it should never come at the expense of the other clubs.

How many clubs have missed out on being successful over the last 20 years because so much money has been invested in the Storm by the the company who owned 50% of the game and had a say in how everything was run?

It's been great for the Melbourne Storm, but how many fans from other clubs have been lost to the game because they are sick of Murdoch's favourites getting every advantage under the sun to win at everyone else's expense?

The same thing was done with the Broncos in the 90s, to the detriment of the Crushers, Chargers and Cowboys.

I don't mind a new club getting some advantages over the first three years of their admission to help them survive and establish themselves, but the Storm have been allowed to manipulate the rules to the point that the game became slow, predictable and alien to RL fans. People want to see line breaks, skillful halves and fast centres/wingers with ball in hand. Hit up after hit up with gang tackles to slow it down and reset the defensive line is boring.

What happened with the Storm is not at all applicable to the league helping expansion teams establish themselves. Namely because the vast majority of that extra money that they were getting was coming from their owners, not the league or other clubs, and I don't see any reason why you'd want to stop an owner investing in there business.

All I'll say is that if you want to make sure that an expansion club is successful you have to be willing to make sacrifices, and it's going to take a lot more than three years of sacrifices to really establish a new club.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

What happened with the Storm is not at all applicable to the league helping expansion teams establish themselves. Namely because the vast majority of that extra money that they were getting was coming from their owners, not the league or other clubs, and I don't see any reason why you'd want to stop an owner investing in there business.

All I'll say is that if you want to make sure that an expansion club is successful you have to be willing to make sacrifices, and it's going to take a lot more than three years of sacrifices to really establish a new club.

News Ltd owned Melbourne until 2012 and had a 50% stake in the game itself. The whole thing was a conflict of interest. Plus Melbourne benefitted from being admitted just as 3 teams were cut, so what happened with them will never be repeated.

The good thing about Brisbane 2 entering the market now is the Broncos are shit, so they just need to be better than the Broncos.

 

[The Great Dane]

The good thing about Brisbane 2 entering the market now is the Broncos are shit, so they just need to be better than the Broncos.

I don't think being better than the Broncos would mean a damn thing if they came 15th instead of 16th...

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

I don't think being better than the Broncos would mean a damn thing if they came 15th instead of 16th...

My Cowboys came 14 and I was as happy as 2015 when we consigned the Broncos to the wooden spoon. Another battle won.

 

[mongoose]

Gold Coast and Brisbane are geographically isolated. The two cities have nothing in common. Good luck getting people from Brisbane, Moreton Bay, Ipswich and Logan to adopt the Titans. The only part of Logan that might get on the Titans bandwagon are those who live in areas that used to be part of Gold Coast but are now in Logan, like Beenleigh.

It's like telling Penrith fans that they can go support Easts at the SFS.


I think that can work. Logan would have the best chance of succeeding as RL is stronger there than in Brisbane, and its population is set to boom with nee estates in Yarrabilba and Flagstone.

There is people all over SEQLD that support the Titans already... not in the numbers of the Broncos but they exist. They don't all live on the GC....

 

[Pippen94]

Agreed. Redcliffe is too geographically limiting, but Sunshine Coast is a massive area.

Wonder if the Falcons will try for a bid.

Morton Bay has bigger population than Sunshine Coast!!!
A regional team brings none of benefits of second Brisbane club.
Let Dolphins play trial matches on Sunshine Coast.