Ivan Cleary ..

[franklin2323]

Great theory. Only one flaw. He didn't match the bottom of the top 8.

I said it elsewhere. How many tries did we bomb complete a few of them and we make the 8 but that would of just papered over the cracks like it did the previous 3 years under hook. So that is the positive might actually fix the issues

 

[franklin2323]

So just so I'm clear, when Bennett leaves the clubs fail. The Broncos' Knights and Dragons. That makes complete sense. When he is there, they make the semi finals, or, win GF's and generate rep players, but when he leaves the club is a mess.

Obviously, once they fixed up the mess he left, the Knights, Dragons and Broncos have gone on to greater things. They have won, let's see, carry the four, divide by pi, ahh yes that would be nothing at all. Bennett really is useless isn't he? We really dodged a bullet so we could get Mr 47%. Good work Dave.

For the record, the Knights were a mess that had very little to do with the coach putting a team on the field. The CEO was a rookie ex-player that had no experience in managing a club. The Board hired Stone after Bennett left. A man Bennett told them wasn't up to it. What happened next, shows who was right. Tinkler failed to pay the wages of the club and other creditors, so there were players playing without their salary being paid. Alex McKinnon broke his spine, a accident that destroyed morale at the club. Bennet himself, described that year as his best year of coaching because of what he achieved, given the circumstances.

Bennett is not perfect, but Cleary is not even in the same postcode when talking about coaches.

MacGuire, Des, Toovey all would been better than both Bennett and Ivan. Ivan is ordinary and Bennett past it

 

[betcats]

MacGuire, Des, Toovey all would been better than both Bennett and Ivan. Ivan is ordinary and Bennett past it

Not sold on MacGuire at all, Im glad we didn't get him. He shortened Inglis career IMO and looks like he already struggling to keep the tigers playing group on the bus.

 

[Pomoz]

MacGuire, Des, Toovey all would been better than both Bennett and Ivan. Ivan is ordinary and Bennett past it

What your comment illustrates is the complete and utter ineptitude in signing Cleary when all of the alternatives you have listed are better coaches. WTF was Dave thinking? In what universe is Mr 47% worth signing, even over Justin Holbrook? Flabbergasted.

 

[betcats]

So just so I'm clear, when Bennett leaves the clubs fail. The Broncos' Knights and Dragons. That makes complete sense. When he is there, they make the semi finals, or, win GF's and generate rep players, but when he leaves the club is a mess.

Obviously, once they fixed up the mess he left, the Knights, Dragons and Broncos have gone on to greater things. They have won, let's see, carry the four, divide by pi, ahh yes that would be nothing at all. Bennett really is useless isn't he? We really dodged a bullet so we could get Mr 47%. Good work Dave.

For the record, the Knights were a mess that had very little to do with the coach putting a team on the field. The CEO was a rookie ex-player that had no experience in managing a club. The Board hired Stone after Bennett left. A man Bennett told them wasn't up to it. What happened next, shows who was right. Tinkler failed to pay the wages of the club and other creditors, so there were players playing without their salary being paid. Alex McKinnon broke his spine, a accident that destroyed morale at the club. Bennet himself, described that year as his best year of coaching because of what he achieved, given the circumstances.

Bennett is not perfect, but Cleary is not even in the same postcode when talking about coaches.

Bennett made the semi finals with the Knights once, that was in 2013, that was the last time Newcastle made the 8, they are still fixing the mess he left in that squad.

Bennett working with an unproven CEO means he would've 100 percent been running the recruitment and retention while he was there. Look at browns comments when he took over, he wasn't worried about paying wages he was worried about rebuilding the squad that bennett left him which took years. As soon as the shit hit the fan at Newcastle he upped and legged it and left that sinking ship.

 

[betcats]

He missed a chance to build a legacy there. It would have been really easy to sign players with Tinkler cash and the rock solid back office set up they had. "Yeah, it's great here. Don't worry about the players not being paid, as a new signing we will make your wages a priority".

The players and staff not being paid didn't happen until into his last year(2014) but yeah that sure is a good excuse for 2012 and 2013, really makes sense.

IF anything recruitment for 2012/2013(most of his time there) should've been easy with everyone thinking they had a super rich owner who just splashed the cash to bring the most succusful coach ever, cleared the clubs debt and was looking at upgrading the facilities, but the knights recruitment during these years was woeful, just like the Broncos recruitment when he was there after Newcastle.

 

[Pomoz]

Bennett made the semi finals with the Knights once, that was in 2013, that was the last time Newcastle made the 8, they are still fixing the mess he left in that squad.

Bennett working with an unproven CEO means he would've 100 percent been running the recruitment and retention while he was there. Look at browns comments when he took over, he wasn't worried about paying wages he was worried about rebuilding the squad that bennett left him which took years. As soon as the shit hit the fan at Newcastle he upped and legged it and left that sinking ship.

Good try, but your logic still doesn't work. How could he build a roster when every week, there was something in the paper about Tinkler going bust. Those rumours and his failure to pay creditors were around long before he didn't pay the players. No manager worth his salt would encourage a player to sign with the Knights.

It was well known in the business community, which at the time I was part of, that Tinkler was going to go broke. From 2013 onwards, it wasn't a matter of "if", but "when".

You now want to blame Bennett for the CEO's decision, assuming Bennett had time to do his job as well as his own. Being a rookie, doesn't mean the CEO would let somebody else make the decisions, but sure, it was Bennett the puppet master who did it.

Then we have Alice who want's to blame Bennett for breaking links with the local community. Why on earth would he do that? Makes no sense and is highly illogical, especially since that is the CEO's job. Did I mention he was a rookie? Perhaps the rookie CEO made a few mistakes, who'd a thought?

 

[betcats]

Good try, but your logic still doesn't work. How could he build a roster when every week, there was something in the paper about Tinkler going bust. Those rumours and his failure to pay creditors were around long before he didn't pay the players. No manager worth his salt would encourage a player to sign with the Knights.

It was well known in the business community, which at the time I was part of, that Tinkler was going to go broke. From 2013 onwards, it wasn't a matter of "if", but "when".

You now want to blame Bennett for the CEO's decision, assuming Bennett had time to do his job as well as his own. Being a rookie, doesn't mean the CEO would let somebody else make the decisions, but sure, it was Bennett the puppet master who did it.

Then we have Alice who want's to blame Bennett for breaking links with the local community. Why on earth would he do that? Makes no sense and is highly illogical, especially since that is the CEO's job. Did I mention he was a rookie? Perhaps the rookie CEO made a few mistakes, who'd a thought?

Tinkler wasn't going bust the whole time he was there you are talking shit. You really think Gidley was responsible for the recruitment moreso than Bennett? You are in here blaming Ivan for rep selections but wont hold bennett responsible for the players he signed? What about Boyd? Was he a Gidley signing? Lol what rubbish.

 

[BxTom]

Tinkler wasn't going bust the whole time he was there you are talking shit.

Stop the comedy - you will have us wetting ourselves if you keep it up...

 

[betcats]

Stop the comedy - you will have us wetting ourselves if you keep it up...

Great post Bx, really out did yourself there.

I don't know what financial situation was in 2013 tbh all I know the players not getting paid didn't happen until 2014. It didn't stop Wayne from recruiting anyone like Pomoz has claimed.

 

[Pomoz]

IF anything recruitment for 2012/2013(most of his time there) should've been easy with everyone thinking they had a super rich owner who just splashed the cash to bring the most succusful coach ever, cleared the clubs debt and was looking at upgrading the facilities, but the knights recruitment during these years was woeful, just like the Broncos recruitment when he was there after Newcastle.

It was well known that Tinkler's wealth was built on sand and would crumble as soon as he had liquidity issues. As I said before, this was 2013 not 2014. Articles about Tinkler's liquidity were appearing in the Financial Review in November 2012. His investments in Patinack farm were already in serious trouble and requiring him to find $200 million.

The 2014 year was when it finally come to a head and impacted the Knights in their hip pocket directly I would be amazed if the player manager's weren't aware of what the business community was talking about in 2012. Unfortunately for Bennett, he obviously didn't know what was about to happen to Tinkler when he signed in 2011. Bennet had zero chance of building anything in that environment.

 

[Dave's mate]

Bennett had no interest in buliding anything. Just like he did to St Merge

 

[betcats]

It was well known that Tinkler's wealth was built on sand and would crumble as soon as he had liquidity issues. As I said before, this was 2013 not 2014. Articles about Tinkler's liquidity were appearing in the Financial Review in November 2012. His investments in Patinack farm were already in serious trouble and requiring him to find $200 million.

The 2014 year was when it finally come to a head and impacted the Knights in their hip pocket directly I would be amazed if the player manager's weren't aware of what the business community was talking about in 2012. Unfortunately for Bennett, he obviously didn't know what was about to happen to Tinkler when he signed in 2011. Bennet had zero chance of building anything in that environment.

2013 was the Knights best season in a long time so it seems the tinkler stuff really had a big impact on them. Im done with this, you are applying double standards when considering Bennett and Ivan.

 

[BxTom]

Bennett had no interest in buliding anything. Just like he did to St Merge

Yes, that's very true. He only won a premiership there. Obviously hopeless.

 

[Dave's mate]

Yes, that's very true. He only won a premiership there. Obviously hopeless.

That wasn't my point. He was there to win what he could in a few years with no thought for the future

 

[Pomoz]

2013 was the Knights best season in a long time so it seems the tinkler stuff really had a big impact on them. Im done with this, you are applying double standards when considering Bennett and Ivan.

It is simple really. In 2013 you try and sign players and manage your roster for 2014. The Tinkler financial crisis is now playing out in the press and it is a lot worse than the media are showing.You struggle to sign players and then it all goes pear shaped in 2014, you struggle to sign players for 2015. Now the club has two years where it can't build a roster effectively because the club is broke.

There is a lead and lag. 2012 sets up 2013 and 2013 sets up 2014 and so on.

No double standards applied. I am talking about Bennett, not Cleary. Cleary hasn't had to manage a club that can't pay its players or sign anybody. If he did, he would also have my understanding and sympathy.

 

[Pomoz]

That wasn't my point. He was there to win what he could in a few years with no thought for the future

Right. So when he is at a club it wins, when he leaves they lose. The Board and CEO remain though. Maybe there is a pattern here........

 

[Crashtest]

I honestly don't understand how anyone can disagree with this.

Gould wasn't perfect. Nor is Bennett. But they're two of the greatest minds the game has known and are well respected by the players.

Something our club has lost now. The club has gone backwards massively in the past 12 months. Not just on the field. But as a brand off the field.

Even if Bennett couldn't outcoach Ivan. Atleast the clubs image would have remained intact.

I'm not disagreeing with the Gould & Bennett better than Cleary, O'Neill and Fletcher comment. I've never even mentioned Fletcher and O'Neill. And although Gould had his flaws and made mistakes, I still wish he had hung around and been wiling to work with the others. I think Gould, Cleary and Alexander, or Gould, Maguire and Alexander, or even a Gould,O'Brien and Alexander would all of suited Penrith's longer term needs better than Gould and Bennett.

I agree the clubs image took a beating with the way they handled poaching of Cleary from the Tigers. And I definitely agree that it was a bad decision to bring Cleary back, for a number or reasons.

Were there better coaches than Cleary available without all the baggage, yes. But my argument is that a nearly 70 year old Bennett who was looking to pad up his retirement fund for two years, was not the right choice as the replacement for Griffin.

The roster management needed a longer term plan than just a make or break two year view. Are Cleary, Alexander and Cameron up to the task of managing it? I don't know, but as they already have those roles and it's no use complaining about it, I'm willing to give them a chance to show some results before I right them off.

 

[Fangs]

Genuine question. How well do you think our young predominantly Gen Z roster would of responded to a nearly 70 year old coach?

I think he has proven his whole career that he can get players working with him regardless of their age.

Gus has made the point quite a few times about the 'life expectancy' of a coach. Basically saying once you are too old you can't do it anymore. You share nothing in common with the players and can't make a connection. But he made an exception for Wayne Bennett who is 69 years of age. Tells you everything you need to know.

Oh well. Onward and uhh...just onward for now with Dave's Mate.

 

[Crashtest]

I think he has proven his whole career that he can get players working with him regardless of their age.

Gus has made the point quite a few times about the 'life expectancy' of a coach. Basically saying once you are too old you can't do it anymore. You share nothing in common with the players and can't make a connection But he made an exception for Wayne Bennett who is 69 years of age. Tells you everything you need to know.

Oh well. Onward and uhh...just onward for now with Dave's Mate.

Everyone has a use by date though, even Bennett. The fact that Brisbane, a club he won 6 premierships with, didn't think he was up to the task of seeing out his final year of his contract, shows they thought so to.