Ivan Cleary ..

[Pomoz]

If RCG played for Bellamy or Bennett, he would be in the squad. Unfortunately, the Pie Face fitness training regime and the lack of support from the club killed his confidence and his ability to perform under fatigue. Under Bellamy or Bennett, Blake might have been able to run fast enough in the clear to make Wighton put his beer down before giving chase. He might have been fit enough to score tries and split defences.

In 12 months we are reduced to "our best players are Kiwis and RCG and Blake shouldn't be rep players, it's OK to release them and anyway, we have nobody eligible". We can talk ourselves into "anyway, we're from Penrith and we aren't good enough because we are Westies". In an interview with Brandy om Macquarie radio, Brandy said "we had an inferiority complex at the Panthers because we are Westies. Winning the GF in 91 helped give us a sense we belong in the NRL". That is from the mouth of a man who has e played SOO and for Australia, won a Dally M, a Dally M runners up medal, a premiership and a runners up medal. A legend. He thinks we still have confidence issues in the West. The comments in this forum prove he is spot on.

 

[betcats]

If RCG played for Bellamy or Bennett, he would be in the squad. Unfortunately, the Pie Face fitness training regime and the lack of support from the club killed his confidence and his ability to perform under fatigue. Under Bellamy or Bennett, Blake might have been able to run fast enough in the clear to make Wighton put his beer down before giving chase. He might have been fit enough to score tries and split defences.

In 12 months we are reduced to "our best players are Kiwis and RCG and Blake shouldn't be rep players, it's OK to release them and anyway, we have nobody eligible". We can talk ourselves into "anyway, we're from Penrith and we aren't good enough because we are Westies". In an interview with Brandy om Macquarie radio, Brandy said "we had an inferiority complex at the Panthers because we are Westies. Winning the GF in 91 helped give us a sense we belong in the NRL". That is from the mouth of a man who has e played SOO and for Australia, won a Dally M, a Dally M runners up medal, a premiership and a runners up medal. A legend. He thinks we still have confidence issues in the West. The comments in this forum prove he is spot on.

Oh well if we were all just losing our shit like you on this forum i’m sure the club would be much more successful.

 

[franklin2323]

If RCG played for Bellamy or Bennett, he would be in the squad. Unfortunately, the Pie Face fitness training regime and the lack of support from the club killed his confidence and his ability to perform under fatigue. Under Bellamy or Bennett, Blake might have been able to run fast enough in the clear to make Wighton put his beer down before giving chase. He might have been fit enough to score tries and split defences.

In 12 months we are reduced to "our best players are Kiwis and RCG and Blake shouldn't be rep players, it's OK to release them and anyway, we have nobody eligible". We can talk ourselves into "anyway, we're from Penrith and we aren't good enough because we are Westies". In an interview with Brandy om Macquarie radio, Brandy said "we had an inferiority complex at the Panthers because we are Westies. Winning the GF in 91 helped give us a sense we belong in the NRL". That is from the mouth of a man who has e played SOO and for Australia, won a Dally M, a Dally M runners up medal, a premiership and a runners up medal. A legend. He thinks we still have confidence issues in the West. The comments in this forum prove he is spot on.

Brandy is one that was in charge of releasing those guys. So who would you drop from the NSW team for Blake to play?

 

[franklin2323]

Oh well if we were all just losing our shit like you on this forum i’m sure the club would be much more successful.

Reality is the players just aren't as good as fans on here think

 

[betcats]

Reality is the players just aren't as good as fans on here think

The reality is fans have very little say in the success or failures of an NRL club. Anyone who thinks the roosters or Melbourne are powerhouses because of anything to do with their fans are kidding themselves.

 

[The yak]

The reality is fans have very little say in the success or failures of an NRL club. Anyone who thinks the roosters or Melbourne are powerhouses because of anything to do with their fans are kidding themselves.

Success starts at the front office. Put Tedesco in a few crap teams and he would be half the player he is now. With touches of brilliance.
The player has to be keen to perform but most of the time the top clubs get the best out of the top players.
We do not. That is something that needs to change. To encourage the good players to come but more importantly keep the good ones we develop.

 

[Pomoz]

Reality is the players just aren't as good as fans on here think

I think you missed the point. I'm not upset nobody got picked, because they are good enough. We don't have anybody good enough. That's not the same as saying we don't have talent. They aren't good enough because of the terrible coaching, fitness training and man management they get at our club.

 

[franklin2323]

Success starts at the front office. Put Tedesco in a few crap teams and he would be half the player he is now. With touches of brilliance.
The player has to be keen to perform but most of the time the top clubs get the best out of the top players.
We do not. That is something that needs to change. To encourage the good players to come but more importantly keep the good ones we develop.

Also player attitude. Mid season I think after they lost to NQ Cordner and Cronk both said despite resting players they expect to win every game. That is the attitude we need to adopt

 

[franklin2323]

I think you missed the point. I'm not upset nobody got picked, because they are good enough. We don't have anybody good enough. That's not the same as saying we don't have talent. They aren't good enough because of the terrible coaching, fitness training and man management they get at our club.

You don't get to FG without talent. Our issue is we rush that talent that happened well before Ivan came back. Even the guys that leave struggle the exception is Graham who played plenty of lower grades here. Waddell looks to be the same we rush them and as a result they stay solid players only

 

[betcats]

Success starts at the front office. Put Tedesco in a few crap teams and he would be half the player he is now. With touches of brilliance.
The player has to be keen to perform but most of the time the top clubs get the best out of the top players.
We do not. That is something that needs to change. To encourage the good players to come but more importantly keep the good ones we develop.

Yeah real lack of talent our front office for a long time.

 

[Crashtest]

If RCG played for Bellamy or Bennett, he would be in the squad. Unfortunately, the Pie Face fitness training regime and the lack of support from the club killed his confidence and his ability to perform under fatigue.

I get that you don’t like or rate Cleary. But I don’t see how you can blame Cleary or the club for RCG’s form this season.

He hasn’t been the same since he returned from his broken jaw last season, well before Cleary got there. He lost his confidence and aggression from two broken jaws, not because of Cleary’s training methods, or lack of support from the club.

He would still be in the squad if Gould hadn’t made a really bad decision with his contract upgrade, and he was being paid what he was actually worth based on his performances. You mentioned that he would still be in Bellamy’s or Bennett’s squad if he played for them, but there is no way they would leave a player like him in there squad on the money he is on.

The club had no real choice but to try and unload him to mitigate some of the cap disaster from his contract. They could not afford to leave an underporming prop as the second highest paid player in the squad for next season.

Cleary and the club have made some bad decisions, but releasing RCG isn’t one of them.

 

[betcats]

I get that you don’t like or rate Cleary. But I don’t see how you can blame Cleary or the club for RCG’s form this season.

He hasn’t been the same since he returned from his broken jaw last season, well before Cleary got there. He lost his confidence and aggression from two broken jaws, not because of Cleary’s training methods, or lack of support from the club.

He would still be in the squad if Gould hadn’t made a really bad decision with his contract upgrade, and he was being paid what he was actually worth based on his performances. You mentioned that he would still be in Bellamy’s or Bennett’s squad if he played for them, but there is no way they would leave a player like him in there squad on the money he is on.

The club had no real choice but to try and unload him to mitigate some of the cap disaster from his contract. They could not afford to leave an underporming prop as the second highest paid player in the squad for next season.

Cleary and the club have made some bad decisions, but releasing RCG isn’t one of them.

Yep blaming Ivan for RCG was a huge stretch but you know lets not let the truth get in the way of a good Cleary baggin'

 

[franklin2323]

I get that you don’t like or rate Cleary. But I don’t see how you can blame Cleary or the club for RCG’s form this season.

He hasn’t been the same since he returned from his broken jaw last season, well before Cleary got there. He lost his confidence and aggression from two broken jaws, not because of Cleary’s training methods, or lack of support from the club.

He would still be in the squad if Gould hadn’t made a really bad decision with his contract upgrade, and he was being paid what he was actually worth based on his performances. You mentioned that he would still be in Bellamy’s or Bennett’s squad if he played for them, but there is no way they would leave a player like him in there squad on the money he is on.

The club had no real choice but to try and unload him to mitigate some of the cap disaster from his contract. They could not afford to leave an underporming prop as the second highest paid player in the squad for next season.

Cleary and the club have made some bad decisions, but releasing RCG isn’t one of them.

I don't rate Cleary but I rate a few of these overpaid over hyped players less.
For 2 years straight RCG has ave less than 100m a game. He isn't even at plodder level lately
Hook was the easy one to blame but a few players and the front office didn't help.

We have a bit of cap space to improve the squad (Not nessarily the top 17 but the whole 30 man squad)

Have our FB, Hooker and Half locking in. 75% certain Luai will be the 6. When is the last time we have had a settled spine?
So there is plenty of good things just not so much the coach

 

[franklin2323]

Yep blaming Ivan for RCG was a huge stretch but you know lets not let the truth get in the way of a good Cleary baggin'

I love to bag Ivan as much as the next person but somethings just aren't his fault

 

[OldPanther]

I don't rate Cleary but I rate a few of these overpaid over hyped players less.
For 2 years straight RCG has ave less than 100m a game. He isn't even at plodder level lately
Hook was the easy one to blame but a few players and the front office didn't help.

We have a bit of cap space to improve the squad (Not nessarily the top 17 but the whole 30 man squad)

Have our FB, Hooker and Half locking in. 75% certain Luai will be the 6. When is the last time we have had a settled spine?
So there is plenty of good things just not so much the coach

To be fair to Griffin no one blamed him for RCG from memory. Everyone seems to agree it was the injuries that effected his form.

 

[age.s]

If RCG was the only player who started the year unfit, uninterested and generally useless it'd be one thing. He wasn't though. When (almost) the entire squad started the year like that there's only one person you can hang it on. In that context it's fair enough to suspect that Cleary deserves some blame for RCG this year.

The degree to which coach, confidence and injures contribute to something like that isn't able to be known by those who aren't very very close to the team. It's fair enough to suspect them all as factors though.

 

[franklin2323]

If RCG was the only player who started the year unfit, uninterested and generally useless it'd be one thing. He wasn't though. When (almost) the entire squad started the year like that there's only one person you can hang it on. In that context it's fair enough to suspect that Cleary deserves some blame for RCG this year.

The degree to which coach, confidence and injures contribute to something like that isn't able to be known by those who aren't very very close to the team. It's fair enough to suspect them all as factors though.

Unfit is on the coach the rest of those is on the player or playing group as a whole

 

[franklin2323]

To be fair to Griffin no one blamed him for RCG from memory. Everyone seems to agree it was the injuries that effected his form.

I agree so how can now RCG be on Ivan?

 

[OldPanther]

I agree so how can now RCG be on Ivan?

I don't think he is. If the rest of the roster is maybe RCG would have been anyway but as it stands he already was like that 6 months before.

 

[Crashtest]

If RCG was the only player who started the year unfit, uninterested and generally useless it'd be one thing. He wasn't though. When (almost) the entire squad started the year like that there's only one person you can hang it on. In that context it's fair enough to suspect that Cleary deserves some blame for RCG this year.

The degree to which coach, confidence and injures contribute to something like that isn't able to be known by those who aren't very very close to the team. It's fair enough to suspect them all as factors though.

He declined while still under Griffin though, so the change of coach made no difference to RCG’s confidence, aggression, form etc.