Jack Bird

possm · Dec 13, 2021

Dragonslayer said:
Imo theres a couple of things in play here. Being off contract of course means negotiation, thats normal, however, the fact his salary is currently subsidised by the Broncos, his history of injury and his move to the forwards, makes it difficult to assess a 'value'. Testing value is common practice for player managers.

I find it odd that we are 6 weeks or so past the official start of when clubs can begin to negotiate or even table offers, and Birds name has only just popped up.
Sometimes I think journos, who no doubt has agendas, see Parra for example, losing players especially edge forwards, then see who's off contract and bingo Bird's name gets thrown in. Of course not saying it isnt so, but seems convenient to me.

If Bird decides he wants a payday contract then so be it. We have plenty of stock now to cover. If he stays, he'll do his job, his new job, in at lock, a position I think he'd do very well in.

I'd say Jack Bird is a 'good to have' player, not a 'must have' player.

Auntie.Gerald · Dec 13, 2021

I think there will be a bit of give and take re Birdy
We took a big risk for two years with Birdy
It is super rare that a sports person does has two ACL recons and gets back to 100% and or better.
Its actually rare.
We need to see more form him in 2022 before commiting to many $
He knows
His manager knows it
Every club knows it
We know it

He has been an outlier in 2021 and is a good intense footy player in your 17 at the right price

Trifili13 · Dec 13, 2021

possm said:
I'd say Jack Bird is a 'good to have' player, not a 'must have' player.

I like your analogy.

After a decent season, his manager might be trying to drum up a new contract now while Bird has value because if he gets injured again (wouldn't wish that on any player), loses form or is marginalised by better performing players next year, his value will plummet.

getsmarty · Feb 9, 2022

‘Didn’t care how I played’: Dragons star’s honest admission as NRL future revealed

www.foxsports.com.au

Evil Emperor Zurg · Feb 9, 2022

I love the guy’s competitiveness. Never looks disinterested.

SnowDragon · Feb 9, 2022

Evil Emperor Zurg said:
I love the guy’s competitiveness. Never looks disinterested.

Iv'e had this article sent to me by mates having a laugh at us - not great. However, reading the article you note it is a bit of a click-bait scenario, and I definitely agree with Zurg, he never looks like this on the field.

All that said, I want to see his performances this year before I comment on an extension. The Broncos input will have gone, and we have thrown significant coin at Suli, but we have the Fegai bros coming thru. This means to me he is no longer a centre, but is a back rower (Sims and Su'a, JDB + Billy Burns, Ford, Fui etc. all more established) or he is a 14 (Mbye, and some of the younger guys like Sullivan all wanting the position).

I like Birdy, I want him to stay, but there must be a place for him, and he must still be good value. Not sure where/how he fits in atm. Let's see after half a season?

Adolf_Spritzer · Feb 10, 2022

He's our David Peachey or Dylan Walker, definitely has some x-factor about him but you're right SnowDragon in he has to have a spot somewhere and not be a Mr fix it and be shuffled around. We will get the best out of him if we leave him in the same position all year whether that's bench, lock or centre. And I think one of the main reasons we bought in M'bye to cover that utility role, was to give people like Bird some stability, wherever that may be.

Old Timer · Feb 10, 2022

With TS most likely leaving at the end of the year then Bird has a clear path to remain in 1st grade it is simply a case of if he is good enough.

He played a lot of back row in lower grades where he was dynamic but against week defence and then went to the backs when he came to 1st grade and excelled but then got injured and missed a lot of footy.

It is obvious since he came back last year that he is no longer a dynamic back albeit very tough and competitive but we need much more than that to ignite our backline.

He can most likely settle into a life in the back row with us but if he wants something else then time for him to again leave the fold.

We will know by mid season how he is managing both physically and mentally so we should wait until then before discussing contracts.

Evil Emperor Zurg · Feb 10, 2022

SnowDragon said:
Iv'e had this article sent to me by mates having a laugh at us - not great. However, reading the article you note it is a bit of a click-bait scenario, and I definitely agree with Zurg, he never looks like this on the field.

All that said, I want to see his performances this year before I comment on an extension. The Broncos input will have gone, and we have thrown significant coin at Suli, but we have the Fegai bros coming thru. This means to me he is no longer a centre, but is a back rower (Sims and Su'a, JDB + Billy Burns, Ford, Fui etc. all more established) or he is a 14 (Mbye, and some of the younger guys like Sullivan all wanting the position).

I like Birdy, I want him to stay, but there must be a place for him, and he must still be good value. Not sure where/how he fits in atm. Let's see after half a season?

I actually prefer him in the back row. More involvement.

Trifili13 · Feb 10, 2022

Old Timer said:
With TS most likely leaving at the end of the year then Bird has a clear path to remain in 1st grade it is simply a case of if he is good enough.

He played a lot of back row in lower grades where he was dynamic but against week defence and then went to the backs when he came to 1st grade and excelled but then got injured and missed a lot of footy.

It is obvious since he came back last year that he is no longer a dynamic back albeit very tough and competitive but we need much more than that to ignite our backline.

He can most likely settle into a life in the back row with us but if he wants something else then time for him to again leave the fold.

We will know by mid season how he is managing both physically and mentally so we should wait until then before discussing contracts.

Agree with alot that you say OT. While Bird is a handy player, on the evidence from last year, I am not too worried if he goes and hope we don't overpay if he stays. He basically had 1 or 2 good seasons with the Sharks some 6 years ago and I think alot of people are basing their judgment on that.

be55 · Feb 10, 2022

Some of the talk about Jack Bird really is amazing to me. People seem to be talking down his contributions to the team last year...

Jack played his first full season in 4 years playing only 17 games in 2018-19 and coming off of a 2020 where he didn't play at all. At seasons end he played more minutes than anyone else in the team and ended up topping the stats for runs, run meters, tackle breaks and offloads. Sure his defence wasn't great at times but he wasn't Robinson Crusoe there. Ben Hunt only missed 4 less tackles overall and he spent much less time on the field over the year. Actually many of Bird's missed tackles can be put down to players defending inside of him not getting off the defensive line quick enough to shut the play down before it got to Jack...

People have even questioned where he will fit in for this year and beyond...

I don't care who we sign for next year, if Bird is extended and isn't in our best 17 players at the club for this year and beyond, i'm not here...

For years the forum complained (and rightfully so) about our forwards just being battering rams that never looked to offload and promote the ball and then we get a player like Jack who can play in the backrow and is a real ball player and can constantly worry defences and all of a sudden people are talking him down...

As for the "paying overs argument", i think Griffin has proven he's not going to do that and Bird obviously can't command the type of money he got when he went to Brisbane...

I'd bet at training Jack is a central part of our attacking structures and if he can stay fit he'll play a major role in any success we might have on the field this year.

Yow · Feb 10, 2022

be55 said:
Some of the talk about Jack Bird really is amazing to me. People seem to be talking down his contributions to the team last year...

Jack played his first full season in 4 years playing only 17 games in 2018-19 and coming off of a 2020 where he didn't play at all. At seasons end he played more minutes than anyone else in the team and ended up topping the stats for runs, run meters, tackle breaks and offloads. Sure his defence wasn't great at times but he wasn't Robinson Crusoe there. Ben Hunt only missed 4 less tackles overall and he spent much less time on the field over the year. Actually many of Bird's missed tackles can be put down to players defending inside of him not getting off the defensive line quick enough to shut the play down before it got to Jack...

People have even questioned where he will fit in for this year and beyond...

I don't care who we sign for next year, if Bird is extended and isn't in our best 17 players at the club for this year and beyond, i'm not here...

For years the forum complained (and rightfully so) about our forwards just being battering rams that never looked to offload and promote the ball and then we get a player like Jack who can play in the backrow and is a real ball player and can constantly worry defences and all of a sudden people are talking him down...

As for the "paying overs argument", i think Griffin has proven he's not going to do that and Bird obviously can't command the type of money he got when he went to Brisbane...

I'd bet at training Jack is a central part of our attacking structures and if he can stay fit he'll play a major role in any success we might have on the field this year.

Yes play him a lock he can tackle extra link man and Jack Debelin can smash them in the middle

kit66 · Feb 10, 2022

be55 said:
Some of the talk about Jack Bird really is amazing to me. People seem to be talking down his contributions to the team last year...

Jack played his first full season in 4 years playing only 17 games in 2018-19 and coming off of a 2020 where he didn't play at all. At seasons end he played more minutes than anyone else in the team and ended up topping the stats for runs, run meters, tackle breaks and offloads. Sure his defence wasn't great at times but he wasn't Robinson Crusoe there. Ben Hunt only missed 4 less tackles overall and he spent much less time on the field over the year. Actually many of Bird's missed tackles can be put down to players defending inside of him not getting off the defensive line quick enough to shut the play down before it got to Jack...

People have even questioned where he will fit in for this year and beyond...

I don't care who we sign for next year, if Bird is extended and isn't in our best 17 players at the club for this year and beyond, i'm not here...

For years the forum complained (and rightfully so) about our forwards just being battering rams that never looked to offload and promote the ball and then we get a player like Jack who can play in the backrow and is a real ball player and can constantly worry defences and all of a sudden people are talking him down...

As for the "paying overs argument", i think Griffin has proven he's not going to do that and Bird obviously can't command the type of money he got when he went to Brisbane...

I'd bet at training Jack is a central part of our attacking structures and if he can stay fit he'll play a major role in any success we might have on the field this year.

Right on brother, tell it like it is !

Carlton · Feb 10, 2022

be55 said:
Some of the talk about Jack Bird really is amazing to me. People seem to be talking down his contributions to the team last year...

Jack played his first full season in 4 years playing only 17 games in 2018-19 and coming off of a 2020 where he didn't play at all. At seasons end he played more minutes than anyone else in the team and ended up topping the stats for runs, run meters, tackle breaks and offloads. Sure his defence wasn't great at times but he wasn't Robinson Crusoe there. Ben Hunt only missed 4 less tackles overall and he spent much less time on the field over the year. Actually many of Bird's missed tackles can be put down to players defending inside of him not getting off the defensive line quick enough to shut the play down before it got to Jack...

People have even questioned where he will fit in for this year and beyond...

I don't care who we sign for next year, if Bird is extended and isn't in our best 17 players at the club for this year and beyond, i'm not here...

For years the forum complained (and rightfully so) about our forwards just being battering rams that never looked to offload and promote the ball and then we get a player like Jack who can play in the backrow and is a real ball player and can constantly worry defences and all of a sudden people are talking him down...

As for the "paying overs argument", i think Griffin has proven he's not going to do that and Bird obviously can't command the type of money he got when he went to Brisbane...

I'd bet at training Jack is a central part of our attacking structures and if he can stay fit he'll play a major role in any success we might have on the field this year.

Jacks lapses in defence weren't due to the inside player, they were due to him not being able to make an effective tackle and racing up out of the defensive line. Based on last year I do not see the love for Jack Bird, he may step up this year and I hope he does. Based on last year if he is the best we can find for second row we are behind the game.

So where do you play him, he is not a centre, should not be in the halves, is not the fullback and as far as a 14 Mbye would seem to have more versatility. maybe lock but if he keeps dancing around and going sideways without taking on the line and demonstrating post contact metres, then he is not going to help at lock.

Auntie.Gerald · Feb 10, 2022

I had my ACL reconstruction about 6yrs ago and I was in the same surgery rehab as GI

Yep we had a good laugh after surgery.......madness

From memory when checking in with my surgeon (top5 in oz) and same surgeon as GI he said 50% of people can return to professional sport after 1 reco

After 2 reconstructions only a 1/3

After 3 recons such little data and many can not return to top level professional ability / performance as just too unstable

BLM01 · Feb 10, 2022

Old Timer said:
With TS most likely leaving at the end of the year then Bird has a clear path to remain in 1st grade it is simply a case of if he is good enough.

He played a lot of back row in lower grades where he was dynamic but against week defence and then went to the backs when he came to 1st grade and excelled but then got injured and missed a lot of footy.

It is obvious since he came back last year that he is no longer a dynamic back albeit very tough and competitive but we need much more than that to ignite our backline.

He can most likely settle into a life in the back row with us but if he wants something else then time for him to again leave the fold.

We will know by mid season how he is managing both physically and mentally so we should wait until then before discussing contracts.

he did play in the back row at times for Cronulla and did OK there.
he is still built lanky but hard to tackle...for me he can be our roving 13

Crush · Feb 10, 2022

Jack Bird MVP 2022
I’m feeling it.

kit66 · Feb 10, 2022

Carlton said:
Jacks lapses in defence weren't due to the inside player, they were due to him not being able to make an effective tackle and racing up out of the defensive line. Based on last year I do not see the love for Jack Bird, he may step up this year and I hope he does. Based on last year if he is the best we can find for second row we are behind the game.

So where do you play him, he is not a centre, should not be in the halves, is not the fullback and as far as a 14 Mbye would seem to have more versatility. maybe lock but if he keeps dancing around and going sideways without taking on the line and demonstrating post contact metres, then he is not going to help at lock.

You didn't see anything to like from Jack ? He averaged more metres than anyone else in the side including our props and that's consistently over 22 games. He made 83 tackle breaks which is more than double any other Dragons player. The most off-loads (29) which in the modern game have become so important. 4 tries, 7 assists. He can play any position 1 to 6 and 2nd row or lock if required and he can kick goals if required. His defence over 22 games at 86% TE isn't great but he was actually improving from around round 8 when playing in the backline taking his averages misses from more than 4 a game to less than 2 - it suffered when he was pushed to 2nd row but he's a 96 kg centre not a 2nd rower.
As has been said, he's got a full, injury free season under his belt, the hardest pre-season ever and arguably a stronger squad around him, we'd be mad not to have him in the 17.

Carlton · Feb 11, 2022

kit66 said:
You didn't see anything to like from Jack ? He averaged more metres than anyone else in the side including our props and that's consistently over 22 games. He made 83 tackle breaks which is more than double any other Dragons player. The most off-loads (29) which in the modern game have become so important. 4 tries, 7 assists. He can play any position 1 to 6 and 2nd row or lock if required and he can kick goals if required. His defence over 22 games at 86% TE isn't great but he was actually improving from around round 8 when playing in the backline taking his averages misses from more than 4 a game to less than 2 - it suffered when he was pushed to 2nd row but he's a 96 kg centre not a 2nd rower.
As has been said, he's got a full, injury free season under his belt, the hardest pre-season ever and arguably a stronger squad around him, we'd be mad not to have him in the 17.

I didnt say there was nothing to like about Jack Bird, I was saying that there were things that were a concern and needed to improve otherwise its hard to see where he fits in.

Stats are great but they must be looked at in conjunction with other indicators. Its not just the run metres that matter its how effective they were, did they stifle the flow because the line timing etc was poor. There's offloads and then there's offloads, if the ball is being promoted great but if it is just being dished off to someone who was going nowhere then that's poor.

Bird made 83 tackle breaks and only 5 line breaks, this is because he runs across field pushing off defenders and dancing away from them. He also made 28 errors.

I think his defence, errors and across field running need to addressed and I dont believe his utility value is as good as its made out due to the fact he has lost pace and agility.

epDragon62 · Feb 11, 2022

It's hard to measure but his attitude and energy is worth something provided he doesn't make too many mistakes. Let's say there is a pull-through effect potentially.

If we had comparative stats for the team when he is playing vs when he is not it would be interesting.

Jack Bird

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