Jack DeBelin

[muzby]

Inappropriate is not subjective? really? So all over the world in every culture the same things are considered inappropriate? Please.

Subjectivity is related to a personal view of the world.

Cultural norms are different.

BTW, I’m still waiting on your example of where I’ve been inappropriate.

 

[betcats]

Subjectivity is related to a personal view of the world.

Cultural norms are different.

BTW, I’m still waiting on your example of where I’ve been inappropriate.

Nah you are flat out wrong, what is inappropriate to you will not be inappropriate to everyone, to say it is not subjective is ridiculous.

Im not looking for examples so I will just concede that one.

 

[randomdragon]

This all seems a bit odd to me. Jack and the dragons must know something that everyone else does not know. Jacks partner is out and about with frizells misses and didn’t look too concerned at all. Either Jack is an extremely good liar or they all know something we do not?

 

[muzby]

Nah you are flat out wrong, what is inappropriate to you will not be inappropriate to everyone, to say it is not subjective is ridiculous.

Im not looking for examples so I will just concede that one.

Nope. Subjectivity is an individual view.

What you are referring to are cultural and societal norms, which are learned as we grow up & experience life.. And your view on the world will be shaped by this.

Subjectivity is the lens which we then view life’s experiences through.

For example, someone who’s life has been shaped by losing a loved one to drugs would have a completely different view of prohibition vs someone who loves to party.

From there if you aggregate it up if have more people who have been affected by losses from drugs (eg maybe even burglaries etc) vs those who love to party, you’ll end up with a societal view of whether prohibition is acceptable or not.

 

[Saints Forever]

Nope. Subjectivity is an individual view.

What you are referring to are cultural and societal norms, which are learned as we grow up & experience life.. And your view on the world will be shaped by this.

Subjectivity is the lens which we then view life’s experiences through.

For example, someone who’s life has been shaped by losing a loved one to drugs would have a completely different view of prohibition vs someone who loves to party.

From there if you aggregate it up if have more people who have been affected by losses from drugs (eg maybe even burglaries etc) vs those who love to party, you’ll end up with a societal view of whether prohibition is acceptable or not.

Agreed Muz

regrettably we are subjected to yours all too often )

 

[betcats]

Nope. Subjectivity is an individual view.

What you are referring to are cultural and societal norms, which are learned as we grow up & experience life.. And your view on the world will be shaped by this.

Subjectivity is the lens which we then view life’s experiences through.

For example, someone who’s life has been shaped by losing a loved one to drugs would have a completely different view of prohibition vs someone who loves to party.

From there if you aggregate it up if have more people who have been affected by losses from drugs (eg maybe even burglaries etc) vs those who love to party, you’ll end up with a societal view of whether prohibition is acceptable or not.

Oh yes and someone's individual view would never be influenced by the societal and cultural norms they experience throughout their life would they? lol FMD what a pile shit that comment is.

 

[muzby]

Oh yes and someone's individual view would never be influenced by the societal and cultural norms they experience throughout their life would they? lol FMD what a pile shit that comment is.

You can have a completely different view of acceptability than the rest of society, even if you grow up in the same circumstances as others.

You only need to look at home grown terrorists as an example. They’ve chosen a different view of society.

Subjectivity comes down to the individual’s interpretation.

 

[YoHadrian]

Have to be careful when things are before the courts. Sub judice & all that.

 

[betcats]

You can have a completely different view of acceptability than the rest of society, even if you grow up in the same circumstances as others.

You only need to look at home grown terrorists as an example. They’ve chosen a different view of society.

Subjectivity comes down to the individual’s interpretation.

I never said every person of the same culture will have the same view of appropriateness, not even close. And the bold is a contradiction of your original view that “inappropriate is not subjective” so since we now agree let’s move on. Unless you’d like to throw some more big words at me to show off your intellect.

 

[muzby]

I never said every person of the same culture will have the same view of appropriateness, not even close.

No, you didn’t, and I never said you did.

You’re taking things to extremes - “every culture” and “every person” etc.

I’m giving you examples of where subjectivity comes into play from an individual level, not the “every” level.

 

[betcats]

No, you didn’t, and I never said you did.

You’re taking things to extremes - “every culture” and “every person” etc.

I’m giving you examples of where subjectivity comes into play from an individual level, not the “every” level.

I’m taking things to extremes? Maybe, but at least I’m not contradicting myself.

 

[muzby]

I’m taking things to extremes? Maybe, but at least I’m not contradicting myself.

Thankfully that makes two of us.

To try and clarify for you:

- An individual perform a task or action which subjectively they believe is acceptable to perform

- Societal norms (or even laws) will dictate whether that view (and therefore the action) is correct or not.


Overall I think we’re roughly pointing in the same direction.. But the whole subject of subjectivity (no pun intended) boils down to the individual’s view of a situation.

 

[Willow]

Musby you are still a hypocrite. It. Doesn't matter whether you put me in the swamp or not. I don't care. You are still a hypocrite hypocrite hypocrite hypocrite hypocrite hypocrite hypocrite.

Mate, Muzby is not the one putting you in the Swamp. And it's not just you, I'm moving both of you to the Swamp whenever this flares up.

Please keep in mind that Muzby is a Jubilee Avenue Mod and has no moderator powers in this forum. He can't move posts here. I suspect there is a misunderstanding at play that is adding to your aggravation.

To reiterate, I move both of you into the Swamp every time I see a thread being derailed by this squabble. I'm sure I'm not alone when I say that people find this fight all very boring.

It has been going on for too long, and now you are trying to escalate it further by openly defying the moderating.

I actually have better things to do (like my real day job). So now that you know, I ask politely that you please walk away from this argument. If you can't, I'll need to take further action. I can't be fairer than that.

Thanks in advance to both of you for doing your bit to bring an end to this bickering.

 

[betcats]

Thankfully that makes two of us.

To try and clarify for you:

- An individual perform a task or action which subjectively they believe is acceptable to perform

- Societal norms (or even laws) will dictate whether that view (and therefore the action) is correct or not.


Overall I think we’re roughly pointing in the same direction.. But the whole subject of subjectivity (no pun intended) boils down to the individual’s view of a situation.

Im happy to leave it here Muzby.

All the best for the season ahead ladies and gents.

 

[muzby]

Im happy to leave it here Muzby.

All the best for the season ahead ladies and gents.

Subjectively we’re both happy

 

[Dragonsamy]

.

 

[The Silverdale Phantom]

good evening muzby.

Well you rely upon social norms as the measure of appropriateness.

The 33% of Australians who voted against Gay marriage, I bet most of them still feel it is inappropriate. It doesn’t matter what you and I think.
The law doesn’t care about socialnorms per se.

In some countries, the majority of people think killing gay people is appropriate because they are gay. I could visit these countries and think it’s inappropriate. Doesn’t mean I’m wrong or they should feel vilified if I suggest to them it’s wrong.

The judge or jury isn’t going to read a newspaper to ascertain the appropriateness of the charges, the evidence and defence.

The context is a rape trial and it is that. Whatever okb1 says is not going to change what it is. He could say it’s a fun and happy thing to behold and mean it and that’s his opinion and we can take it or leave it.

But to accuse him of some bad intent or conduct i submit is a problem you have thinking about it, not him in his utterance.

The rape trial is a good thing in the sense that it is justice at work. There’s an allegation and it’s being dealt with by law. We should rejoice that the alleged victim and alleged perpetrators have an avenue in which to resolve the matter one way or the other.

This is fair.

oops I missed willows earlier intervention!

 

[muzby]

good evening muzby.

Well you rely upon social norms as the measure of appropriateness.

The 33% of Australians who voted against Gay marriage, I bet most of them still feel it is inappropriate. It doesn’t matter what you and I think.
The law doesn’t care about socialnorms per se.

In some countries, the majority of people think killing gay people is appropriate because they are gay. I could visit these countries and think it’s inappropriate. Doesn’t mean I’m wrong or they should feel vilified if I suggest to them it’s wrong.

The judge or jury isn’t going to read a newspaper to ascertain the appropriateness of the charges, the evidence and defence.

The context is a rape trial and it is that. Whatever okb1 says is not going to change what it is. He could say it’s a fun and happy thing to behold and mean it and that’s his opinion and we can take it or leave it.

But to accuse him of some bad intent or conduct i submit is a problem you have thinking about it, not him in his utterance.

The rape trial is a good thing in the sense that it is justice at work. There’s an allegation and it’s being dealt with by law. We should rejoice that the alleged victim and alleged perpetrators have an avenue in which to resolve the matter one way or the other.

This is fair.

Sorry mate, you lost me at your first argument.

If 33% of people disagreed with gay marriage, it means 67% agree..

Which is the majority..

Which makes it the societal norm..

Which is why we changed the constitution.

 

[The Silverdale Phantom]

Sorry mate, you lost me at your first argument.

If 33% of people disagreed with gay marriage, it means 67% agree..

Which is the majority..

Which makes it the societal norm..

Which is why we changed the constitution.

Thats right, but my next point was that despite that, people feel that it isn’t appropriate and they aren’t going to accept it.

So if something is a societal norm, it just doesn’t matter to some people.

Because they make their own minds up.

They impart their own subjective beliefs on the event. As did you and okb1.

 

[chowiesplatterpoo2]

Both of you are arguing a Grey area. Ethics is metaphysical, you could argue these points to the end of time. Deontology vs Utilitarianism..