Jackson Topine sues Bulldogs

[Danish]

No, i didn't say that Ciraldo was the first one to do it, but you already knew that.

What I did say was: Hazing & deliberately punishing, and singling one person out at training isn't the same as a tough, uncompromising, mentally and physically challenging pre season camp. The fact you think they are comparable speaks volumes.

Sleep deprivation has absolutely nothing to do with Topines law suit. Again, you already knew that.

The differentiation between the scenarios you've used two is stark. You're using a false equivalence to attempt to try and make a point. Give up.

Is there any proof that Topine was singled out? All we know is he was only one who complained.

most clubs have physical punishments for any player who turns up late, fails to hit a time, etc. in fact it’s pretty standard when running 400s that if one person fails the entire squad goes again and has that one person to thank. I suppose that will be seen as cruel and unusual punishment now too?

I’m also wondering what you think happens at these uncompromising preseason bootcamps. They all just hold hands and cheer each other on?

 

[Chins get the wins]

Is there any proof that Topine was singled out? All we know is he was only one who complained.

most clubs have physical punishments for any player who turns up late, fails to hit a time, etc. in fact it’s pretty standard when running 400s that if one person fails the entire squad goes again and has that one person to thank. I suppose that will be seen as cruel and unusual punishment now too?

I’m also wondering what you think happens at these uncompromising preseason bootcamps. They all just hold hands and cheer each other on?

Penrith made players bleach their hair as a punishment. Wonder how much gaol time Ivan will be up for

 

[Chimp]

The problem here is that people are applying modern day and standard workplace conditions to professional rugby league, and it just doesn’t work - that’s the same issue for the whole concussion issues too. Being a professional rugby league player is a very different ‘job’ - I really believe there needs to be adapted workplace regulations for professional sport, as it doesn’t quite work with standard legislation.
On the incident itself, this sort of thing happened at all clubs as punishments or even ‘character/resilience building’, both professional and amateur. Doesn’t make it right, and it probably is quite archaic, but it happens, though I suspect this case will be the end of this type of thing.
If it happened as described, I don’t see how the Bulldogs will have a leg to stand on legally, even though it’s been accepted practice in professional rugby league. Unfortunately, the lawyers will have a field day, as to the standard lay person, this is not reasonable or acceptable behaviour from an employer. And you can bet your bottom dollar, any disgruntled ex-player, or player who never quite made the grade will jump all over this and say how they’ve been scarred for life mentally after similar treatment. Could be a bit of a watershed moment.

 

[ouwet]

The problem here is that people are applying modern day and standard workplace conditions to professional rugby league, and it just doesn’t work - that’s the same issue for the whole concussion issues too. Being a professional rugby league player is a very different ‘job’ - I really believe there needs to be adapted workplace regulations for professional sport, as it doesn’t quite work with standard legislation.
On the incident itself, this sort of thing happened at all clubs as punishments or even ‘character/resilience building’, both professional and amateur. Doesn’t make it right, and it probably is quite archaic, but it happens, though I suspect this case will be the end of this type of thing.
If it happened as described, I don’t see how the Bulldogs will have a leg to stand on legally, even though it’s been accepted practice in professional rugby league. Unfortunately, the lawyers will have a field day, as to the standard lay person, this is not reasonable or acceptable behaviour from an employer. And you can bet your bottom dollar, any disgruntled ex-player, or player who never quite made the grade will jump all over this and say how they’ve been scarred for life mentally after similar treatment. Could be a bit of a watershed moment.

You are presuming everything Topine and his camp are saying is true.

 

[10$ Ferret]

Bullying my ass. If as I said if you don't see that punishment as a challenge then you are in the wrong place.
Next people will be tying to say tackling is bullying.
I also highly doubt that a performance specialist at that level is going to ramp up a punishment like that if nots not a reoccurring offence. Travis Touma is not a sadistic person and would not issue a punishment unwarranted .

I have also been at sessions at many clubs (not NRL) that have wrestling drills that are physically taxing and involve multi opponents one after the other.

What is being put out in the media can't possibly be the full story

 

[Bazal]

If it happened as described, I don’t see how the Bulldogs will have a leg to stand on legally, even though it’s been accepted practice in professional rugby league. Unfortunately, the lawyers will have a field day, as to the standard lay person, this is not reasonable or acceptable behaviour from an employer.

Or by the law, FYI.

It's likely to be a breach of s.789FD of the Fair Work Act - although as a former employee Topine would be unable to lodge a s.789FC claim specifically because there is no ongoing risk and there'd be other juris questions as well, that really just means that the specific Act or avenue of prosecution would be changed. Tbh the Commission is toothless on a bullying claim anyway.

Shit like this usually settles out of court regardless, so we'll probably never know.

 

[Chimp]

You are presuming everything Topine and his camp are saying is true.

I’m not presuming anything, hence my ‘if it happened as described’ line….

Personally, I don’t think it’s bullying and I’m providing Topine wasn’t being targetted as an individual, and was actually being treat the same as any other squad member in those circumstances, then I’m relatively comfortable with it in the context of a professional sporting environment.

The issue the Bulldogs and the game will face is that on the face of the current description of the incident and the impact it has had on Topine (whether true or not), to the standard lay person, it’s looks incredibly harsh and does look like inhumane treatment, and will also most likely contravene workplace regs. Whereas people who’ve been a part of rugby league teams will generally be accepting of it, because this type of thing has been standard practice for years.

 

[jason taylor]

You are presuming everything Topine and his camp are saying is true.

It matches with what has been made clear about the club's current culture. This isn't just isolated to Jackson Topine, nor should it be solely a question of the various merits of Topine and the experience he had. Look at what Ciraldo and Gould's reaction was to RFM approaching his coach 1 on 1 as the captain to convey the concerns of a group of the playing group. And sure he was universally criticised for being 'soft', but it matches with Andrew Davey's comments last year when he left mid-season.

As I see it, the problem isn't the 'hazing' or the 'punishments' - the problem is that the club appears to want to create a particular culture and is happy to tear down and burn players while doing it. You only have to see the high turnover of players the Bulldogs have had since Ciraldo took over. Sure, we can deride players as 'soft' and that other clubs do similar practices, but clearly, they aren't doing it in the same manner as the Bulldogs are, or otherwise we'd be hearing similar stories.

 

[dogslife]

The game is about to change drastically if we're applying normal workplace laws to professional sports.

And no, not for the better.

 

[_Johnsy]

Is there any proof that Topine was singled out? All we know is he was only one who complained.

most clubs have physical punishments for any player who turns up late, fails to hit a time, etc. in fact it’s pretty standard when running 400s that if one person fails the entire squad goes again and has that one person to thank. I suppose that will be seen as cruel and unusual punishment now too?

I’m also wondering what you think happens at these uncompromising preseason bootcamps. They all just hold hands and cheer each other on?

NFI mate, just going on what's been reported.

I can only assume with the pre season boot camps, they all have to go through the same treatment rather than singling one person out and one person alone. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, just that employers can't do that shit anymore. Every employer has a duty of care, like it or not, that's life in 2024.

 

[Chimp]

The game is about to change drastically if we're applying normal workplace laws to professional sports.

And no, not for the better.

That’s what’s even happening for the last 10 years… started with fighting, then shoulder charge, concussion and post playing career injuries, training methods (Manly Court case), punishments…..

Lawyers will and already are changing the game, and most rugby league fans and players will say for the worse.

Sport is voluntary, a career in sport is voluntary - certain sports come with inherent risk, and eliminating that risk will materially change the sport. There’s got to be a line in the sand somewhere that removes sport from standard life/workplace regs, but still has enough protections to stop it being reckless. Otherwise, contact sport is doomed.

 

[Bazal]

That’s what’s even happening for the last 10 years… started with fighting, then shoulder charge, concussion and post playing career injuries, training methods (Manly Court case), punishments…..

Lawyers will and already are changing the game, and most rugby league fans and players will say for the worse.

Sport is voluntary, a career in sport is voluntary - certain sports come with inherent risk, and eliminating that risk will materially change the sport. There’s got to be a line in the sand somewhere that removes sport from standard life/workplace regs, but still has enough protections to stop it being reckless. Otherwise, contact sport is doomed.

Technically any and all jobs are voluntary so it's not exactly an argument for exempting professional rugby league clubs from standard workplace laws...they're already operating outside a lot of them, but it's a hard argument to suggest they should be above workplace health and safety and/or discrimination type laws.

Impossible even

 

[dogslife]

Technically any and all jobs are voluntary so it's not exactly an argument for exempting professional rugby league clubs from standard workplace laws...they're already operating outside a lot of them, but it's a hard argument to suggest they should be above workplace health and safety and/or discrimination type laws.

Impossible even

When was the last time you had to run laps for being late? Should that be outlawed from professional sports?

 

[nick87]

I wonder how many people have actually read the article and not responding on headlines

other bulldogs players are reported in the story of being very uncomfortable with what was happening
If this was just a par for the course situation and something any one of them could have or had previously been subjected too, then it’s hard to imagine the players reacting to this the way they’re reported to have reacted

 

[Bazal]

When was the last time you had to run laps for being late? Should that be outlawed from professional sports?

That's an odd inference from a post about WHS and discrimination laws in the workplace...

 

[dogslife]

I wonder how many people have actually read the article and not responding on headlines

other bulldogs players are reported in the story of being very uncomfortable with what was happening
If this was just a par for the course situation and something any one of them could have or had previously been subjected too, then it’s hard to imagine the players reacting to this the way they’re reported to have reacted

He was weeded out and plays for the dragons now. I don't particularly give a shit about his opinion

That's an odd inference from a post about WHS and discrimination laws in the workplace...

Not really in the context of applying non applicable WHS and discrimination laws in a professional sports setting.

 

[Maximus]

I wonder how many people have actually read the article and not responding on headlines

other bulldogs players are reported in the story of being very uncomfortable with what was happening
If this was just a par for the course situation and something any one of them could have or had previously been subjected too, then it’s hard to imagine the players reacting to this the way they’re reported to have reacted

These people are justifying bullying and abuse in the workplace. I don't think they care that other people were uncomfortable.

One has even already responded and suggested those players need to be "weeded out".

 

[Mojo]

Wrestling drills are hardly anal rape

Greco Roman not far removed; Sumo has the visuals but with typical Japanese discretion.

 

[nick87]

He was weeded out and plays for the dragons now. I don't particularly give a shit about his opinion

And nor do I think Topine or RFM particularly gives a shit about yours or any of the other mouth-breathing POS’s on the kennels opinion either
So isn’t that great?

 

[dogslife]

And nor do I think Topine or RFM particularly gives a shit about yours or any of the other mouth-breathing POS’s on the kennels opinion either
So isn’t that great?

I AM HURT!

I haven't been on the kennel since they turfed me for my "Kris Keating for Kaptaincy" campaign