Jason Ryles - Head coach of Parramatta from 2025

[Poupou Escobar]

Even if the PO brings down the value of the first contract [which i am not convinced in our case]

So Melbourne got something in exchange for Harry Grant’s PO but we didn’t for any of ours? Your bias is showing.

it ensures maximum value for the player on the second contract.

If that was the case the player would activate the PO every time. We know of two occasions where Eels players haven’t activated their option; RCG and Talagi. A case where a player did activate his PO was Welch after he was badly injured during contract negotiations in 2019. Melbourne were stuck with him on the books the following year and won the comp. I have no doubt his PO was for unders, as are all player options, because if they weren’t they wouldn’t be options.

In the same way, options in the club’s favour are certain to be worth no less than the player’s expected (at the time of negotiation) value in the option year. When you look at how mutual options (a simultaneous PO and CO) were described for Josh Hodgson, this is exactly as I describe here. If the value of the option was a no brainer (overs for a PO or unders for a CO) then it wouldn’t be any sort of option at all. You need to use your brain for once and stop listening to rugby league journos trying to stir you up and destabilise the club. You need to listen to me.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

this is a club that cheated the cap to win a spoon...

It wasn’t the current management.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

But what about the impact of waiting time (for whether the player takes it up or not) on forward planning and other alternatives we miss out on in the meantime. Look up opportunity cost - you're welcome.

If the club wants to keep the player it won’t wait for him to activate the option. They will start contract renewal talks long before then.

I think you vastly overstate the supposed equivalence of a PO being in lieu of money.

You are overstating the likelihood of anyone offering something for nothing in a business transaction.

The club has to budget for it in case it needs to honour it, and so is hamstrung from flexibility they'd otherwise enjoy in the meantime.

Well yes, this is the cost. It’s obvious and not in doubt. We are now discussing why any club would agree to this extra cost/risk unless there was some benefit in return. Until you can demonstrate why they would, we must assume there is a benefit.

Just offer and sign players for how long you want them for on that contract in the first place, keep it simple instead of the poor business of being bent over by player managers for options.

The alternative is being ‘bent over by player managers’ for extra money. Or maybe get your head out of your arse, put down Das Kapital, and realise that economic transactions aren’t all examples of exploitation. The people running the club are in the job because they’re smarter than you. If LU posters can see the risks of player options, so can they. Managers are likewise smarter than you. Yet they still agree to club options, because there is something in it for them.

 

[Eelementary]

I don't see it at all. The guy can't even catch a freakin ball ffs! And don't start me on his shirt grabbing defence.

Talagi needs a great team to look good and is why he is spearing off to the Panthers. Hayne was the great team.

I thought with Blaize, there is ability there, but his carry on over his contract was as if he was Jamie Lyon, and Jarryd Hayne's lovechild.

He isn't fit to be even mentioned in the same breath as those two.

And you know what? He probably never will be, because those two players were generational talents.

 

[King-Gutho94]

I thought with Blaize, there is ability there, but his carry on over his contract was as if he was Jamie Lyon, and Jarryd Hayne's lovechild.

He isn't fit to be even mentioned in the same breath as those two.

And you know what? He probably never will be, because those two players were generational talents.

Both those generational talents ended up being tragic endings from a Parramatta perspective.

We truly are cursed.

Jamie Lyon would have been what Gutho is now if not more if he stayed his whole career here.

 

[Eelementary]

Both those generational talents ended up being tragic endings from a Parramatta perspective.

We truly are cursed.

Jamie Lyon would have been what Gutho is now if not more if he stayed his whole career here.

Absolutely.

I still think it's a crying shame that players like Nathan Hindmarsh retired without a Premiership, but gimps like Matthew Johns didn't...

 

[Eelementary]

Both those generational talents ended up being tragic endings from a Parramatta perspective.

We truly are cursed.

Jamie Lyon would have been what Gutho is now if not more if he stayed his whole career here.

I was devastated when Lyon left.

He was an incredible player.

He was so good, he was just as good as 5/8, as he was at centre.

He was - genuinely - Brett Kenny, mkII.

 

[King-Gutho94]

Absolutely.

I still think it's a crying shame that players like Nathan Hindmarsh retired without a Premiership, but gimps like Matthew Johns didn't...

Its a crying shame for Hindy but i reckon he was part of the problem in those big games we lost in that era.

His nervous energy and defeatist energy as a senior player would have rubbed off on the younger blokes.

Not entirely his fault. But i get why in retirement observing his attitude & mindset that he would have been like that in the rooms and unintentionally of course but would have made everyone around feel more queasy for a big game which you don't want.

 

[Eelementary]

Its a crying shame for Hindy but i reckon he was part of the problem in those big games we lost in that era.

His nervous energy and defeatist energy as a senior player would have rubbed off on the younger blokes.

Not entirely his fault. But i get why in retirement observing his attitude & mindset that he would have been like that in the rooms and unintentionally of course but would have made everyone around feel more queasy for a big game which you don't want.

Yeah, I agree with that.

But it's a shame that a champion player like him retired with no Premierships to his name.

 

[Gronk]

Absolutely.

I still think it's a crying shame that players like Nathan Hindmarsh retired without a Premiership, but gimps like Matthew Johns didn't...

Brett Finch has a 2009 Premiership ring !

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Really? You seriously believe that?

Yes of course. It’s not rocket surgery that there is a risk/cost to options, whether PO, CO or MO. What is harder (for some) to grasp is that there must be benefits or these options wouldn’t be agreed upon.

Your logic suggests that people in these/all jobs are somehow beyond criticism from anyone who is not in that job at that exact moment... what an amazing top-down respect-all-authority world, where no alternate ideas could possibly shine a light on potential improvements.

I’m sure they are subject to valid criticism, but it isn’t from fans or rugby league journalists. The extent of their visibility is what happens on the field or at pressers. The extent of their corporate management expertise is in most cases zero.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Nonsense and piffle. Source?

First you can show your source that clubs and player managers agree to player/club options in exchange for zero benefit to themselves.

 

[Pazza]

Its a crying shame for Hindy but i reckon he was part of the problem in those big games we lost in that era.

His nervous energy and defeatist energy as a senior player would have rubbed off on the younger blokes.

Not entirely his fault. But i get why in retirement observing his attitude & mindset that he would have been like that in the rooms and unintentionally of course but would have made everyone around feel more queasy for a big game which you don't want.

It's hindys fault Jason moodie dropped the ball 5 times in the GF???

 

[Poupou Escobar]

I wonder if the alternatives to a PO are more diverse than just "no contract".

The alternative to a PO (or any option) is more cash. The alternative isn’t locking the player/club in for an extra year they don’t want to commit to up front. An option has very different value to an extra binding year. I have no doubt Talagi is very cheap this year, due to our likely cap position, the fact he was untested against grown men, and the presence of the player option. To suggest he would’ve been happy with a second year at similar price but no PO, if only the club had realised, is the kind of hysteria-inducing bullshit logic the rugby league media thrives on. Of course a two (or more) year contract, instead of one plus PO, would’ve been a great deal for us. But it would’ve been very poor for the player. By going to market he has probably tripled his money next year, and all parties would’ve been well aware of this. It’s why he wanted a one year deal. The PO would’ve been zero risk to us.

And if we had refused to play him in first grade while off contract, what would the result have been? He might’ve signed for Penrith or someone else cheaper than he did. I doubt it would’ve made him any keener to stay with us.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Well i wouldn't given him the Player option in the first place for 2025.

If he left at end of 2024 because he didn't have or agree to a contract in 2025 then so be it just like Ethan Sanders.

If that was the demand from a player who yet to play a FG game and wanted an Option in his contract already when this was signed what 18 months. It would have been pretty clear he wasn't invested in the club.

Instead we look like even more royally stupid giving him the leverage and power anyway.

He had leverage because he was off contract, not because of the PO.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

The PO is to get him to stay prior to 2025. Not for 2025.

If you had offered him a contract say in 2022 that ended in 2024, he might not have stayed back then and went somewhere else.

The PO is to say look, if you stay for 20222-2024 you get to choose for 2025. It's not for 2025 it is like a bonus or sweetener.

If we really wanted him, we should've made him a better offer in 2023 or early 2024.

We did make him a better offer, before the PO had even expired. We weren’t banking on him activating the PO. It was probably for minimum salary. Unless he got badly injured he was never going to take the PO. Even if he was injured he would probably get better offers than the PO, due to his age. Guymer is injured but he still got bigger offers than whatever we’re paying next year.

So Gronkie is right in my mind.

Mutual Options aren't too bad for mine as you can get that player cheap and stick him in reggies as backup. But we wanted that player during his prime.

For a MO I’d say the money isn’t cheap if the club activates it. It would only be cheap if the player did.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

We made him an offer in November 2023 for 2025/26 for what I was told was close to $400k... before he played FG.

ffs

 

[Poupou Escobar]

T

They were obviously comfortable thinking he would stay…..only parramatta

If this was the case they wouldn’t have made him a bigger offer.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

I think Blaize will kick on at Penrith. People are forgetting he's only 19 and only played 1st grade this year because we have terrible depth and a heap of injuries. Apparently his brother can play as well. Will end up being a big loss for the club.
Wouldn't be as big a deal if we had someone in the juniors this year to replace him next year but I don't think we do.

We have Dylan Brown.

 

[yy_cheng]

We did make him a better offer, before the PO had even expired. We weren’t banking on him activating the PO. It was probably for minimum salary. Unless he got badly injured he was never going to take the PO. Even if he was injured he would probably get better offers than the PO, due to his age. Guymer is injured but he still got bigger offers than whatever we’re paying next year.

Exactly, that's what I said in a later post.

For a MO I’d say the money isn’t cheap if the club activates it. It would only be cheap if the player did.
==> But at least we wanted them to stay if we are to execute
It should be cheaper of the Player executed it.

Hopefullly, the panfers had to pay a little more than he's worth. If he kills it at the panfers, I can see him playing at the chooks in 3 years time... maybe partner with Moses