What's new
The Front Row Forums

Register a free account today to become a member of the world's largest Rugby League discussion forum! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Jdb case

Status
Not open for further replies.

SBD82

Coach
Messages
17,855
If Jack was not in the right mental state of mind and asked for time off i cant see the club not paying him
They could come to an agreement, sure. But that's not Jack standing himself down.

Imagine walking into your employer's office and saying "hey boss, I've been charged with rape. It's making me stressed, so I've decided to stand down from my position. I'm doing this for the good of the company so you'll need to keep paying me while I'm on leave".

I just can't see it playing out that way. Jack could agree to standing down in agreement with the club. But can't stand himself down.
 

BLM01

Coach
Messages
10,000
So There’s no example then?
I read those articles, Nothing there says the policies mean they can’t stsnd him down. Just that it’s not black and white (nor should it be, facing court for littering, or unpaid fines etc should be treated differently). I’d bet there’s nothing in the policy that says they can’t do it, and nothing in his contract that says they can’t either.
Johnston’s quote about it potentially interfering with the judicial process is, frankly, horseshit. Again to believe that I’d have to see an actual example where a court found that someone being stood down on full pay unfairly prejudiced a trial. Do you have an example?
Also the prosecutors client is the State, not the victim. If the prosecutor in charge gives a shit about their future career then they will have made damn sure they can justify their decision based on the evidence before them.

As they were damn sure with Brett Stewart & SKD and any other case that a prosecutor has lost.
 
Last edited:

Willow

Assistant Moderator
Messages
110,249
6 Todd can you please explain to me why the AFL with 50% more players on there roster than the NRL and every second game they play involves a interstate flight and overnight accommodation arn't in this mess. The AFL do have anoff season as well Todd
The AFL isn't squeaky clean, but they are better at deflecting.

There are numerous cases involving AFL players.

You may have missed the whole hush money controversy. AFL CEO Gillon McLachlan even endorsed it. Talking about attitudes towards women...
Link: https://www.msn.com/en-au/sport/afl/ellis-slams-afl-for-endorsing-hush-money/ar-AAwubQb

Don't blame you if you did miss it, given the AFL's talent to hose things down and maintain a relationship with the media.

Quite frankly, I'd rather follow a football code that confronted its problems instead trying the cover up.
 

BLM01

Coach
Messages
10,000
Still no examples then? You’re very sure of something that you can’t provide any examples of.
Your the one sprouting their would be evidence from NSW law cases and asking for examples. As you are sure to the contrary you provide one.
I am backing the judgment of my club and their legal advice and NRL stance over yours any day of the week since I assume like me....you have no expertise in depth of the law and of course NRL contracts and players association.

So you provide one....I am not interested in NSW law just NRL
But I will give you this example ....back to the point of course re NRL and player contracts

Name me a player who has been stood down in the NRL (by a club or NRL) since they changed their policy in 2009 who says he did not do that in relation to charges and the club nor NRL have any factual evidence (visual or witnesses) that they have been stood down before their day in court. Answer NIL
There is my evidence....where is yours!

Oh by the way.dont forget the NRL players association.who have been mysteriously quiet on this issue.
And 1 more. I assume also you must have read JDB's contract to know what it allows.
 

The Damo

Juniors
Messages
1,991
Your the one sprouting their would be evidence from NSW law cases and asking for examples. As you are sure to the contrary you provide one.
I am backing the judgment of my club and their legal advice and NRL stance over yours any day of the week since I assume like me....you have no expertise in depth of the law and of course NRL contracts and players association.

So you provide one....I am not interested in NSW law just NRL
But I will give you this example ....back to the point of course re NRL and player contracts

Name me a player who has been stood down in the NRL (by a club or NRL) since they changed their policy in 2009 who says he did not do that in relation to charges and the club nor NRL have any factual evidence (visual or witnesses) that they have been stood down before their day in court. Answer NIL
There is my evidence....where is yours!

Oh by the way.dont forget the NRL players association.who have been mysteriously quiet on this issue.
And 1 more. I assume also you must have read JDB's contract to know what it allows.
How am I supposed to provide an example of something I claim has not happened? As far as I know It hasn’t happened, no one has sued their employer after being stood down on full pay while criminal charges are resolved. I can’t give an example because it hasn’t happened.
I don’t need to know the specifics as general principles apply.
- being stood down on full pay does not prejudice a fair trial. It happens to lawyers and cops, you reckon those industries might have a clue about these things?
- suing for potential lost earnings on top of contracted salary in this situation would be, as far as I know, unprecedented. No-one can give an example of a similar thing happening. I’m happy to change my view, but i’m asking for evidence it’s possible.
 

AyiosYiorgos

Coach
Messages
14,223
Hi mate.

Foot the bill for what ? He is being paid. I have yet to see a case where damages have been awarded to athletes with serious charges ( not allegations ), made. People bring up the Stewart case. Can anyone here confirm whether or not he was awarded damages for being stepped down ? I have no evidence of that.

Charges would NOT have been laid if the prosecution didnt believe they had solid ground. People need to distinguish between allegations and charges. He has been charged. He will have his day in court where the result will based on " beyond reasonable doubt".
He can potentially sue for loss of income, not talking about he’s monthly pay packet all the rest( if he is found innocent) because if you stand him down for 18months, not talking about a few weeks , 18 months, he can potentially claim that by standing him down for that period he has lost income, he is a current SOO player, with the likelihood of playing again so by not playing he misses out on $30k+ per game, he may have rep bonuses in he’s current contract, he can argue that he’s market value has suffered and he can take action against who stood him down NRL or Dragons, the Dragons want the NRL to make that call, if you were in the position and you potentially lost $200-$500k would you not seek legal advice, I would, and if you worked for the Dragons as part of your due diligence and duties would you not investigate the ramifications of your decision..
 

BLM01

Coach
Messages
10,000
How am I supposed to provide an example of something I claim has not happened? As far as I know It hasn’t happened, no one has sued their employer after being stood down on full pay while criminal charges are resolved. I can’t give an example because it hasn’t happened.
I don’t need to know the specifics as general principles apply.
- being stood down on full pay does not prejudice a fair trial. It happens to lawyers and cops, you reckon those industries might have a clue about these things?
- suing for potential lost earnings on top of contracted salary in this situation would be, as far as I know, unprecedented. No-one can give an example of a similar thing happening. I’m happy to change my view, but i’m asking for evidence it’s possible.

Vice versa for me how can i provide an example of something I claim has not happened to the contrary?
You say as far as you know it has not happened but that does not make it right or wrong.!
Every incident or case is different and you keep going outside the NRL and their current policies, rules and contracts to base your argument about what is legally right or wrong so no point talking further.
Again you dont know the finer things of all law nor the NRL contracts and you seem to say that legal advice our club has received is wrong and BS....back all that up.
Do you know what they have been told.regarding this case..no!
I am just sticking to what people in the know and close to the coal face have said regarding the NRL and clubs position and why they wont stand him down...thats all
Ask yourself if they could and should....why dont they..?
 

Slippery Morris

First Grade
Messages
7,928
The media can easily just let this case sit by the side and wait till an outcome but the scum will keep bringing it up in order to damage the game like they love to do.

If De Belin was stood down I guarantee the media would be smashing the Club and the NRL for doing so without the player being proven guilty. The NRL can't win. They are damned if the do and damned if they don't. The paper looks at any way to sell a dollar with no care factor for the people it reports on.
 

Wittenberg

Juniors
Messages
1,140
I seem to remember the Media constantly discussing the Stewart situation at Manly and most people on this forum declared that it was a disgrace that Manly thought of playing him. I understand both sides of the argument regarding JDB and the legal ramifications, but one thing I do know is that every game we play him we will be belted in the media, we will lose members and current sponsors will be under pressure and future sponsorships are unlikely to emerge while this case drags on, and it will drag on. Moreover, the team is unlikely to be properly focussed with this in the background. It will be 'cheaper' for the club to continue to pay his contract but not play him. In the best of all possible worlds JBD would realise how much damage his situation is doing to the club and would stand down and accept ongoing payment.
 

Drag Queen

Bench
Messages
2,981
As they were damn sure with Brett Stewart & SKD and any other case that a prosecutor has lost.
We should not compare cases BLM01. Every case is different mate. Last year only 17% of rape claims got a conviction against their perpetrator. The majority of women and men don't report it. I'm being careful about what I say here, but it's very difficult to prosecute a rape case. Cheers.
 

Drag Queen

Bench
Messages
2,981
The media can easily just let this case sit by the side and wait till an outcome but the scum will keep bringing it up in order to damage the game like they love to do.

If De Belin was stood down I guarantee the media would be smashing the Club and the NRL for doing so without the player being proven guilty. The NRL can't win. They are damned if the do and damned if they don't. The paper looks at any way to sell a dollar with no care factor for the people it reports on.
Please stop.
 

BLM01

Coach
Messages
10,000
We should not compare cases BLM01. Every case is different mate. Last year only 17% of rape claims got a conviction against their perpetrator. The majority of women and men don't report it. I'm being careful about what I say here, but it's very difficult to prosecute a rape case. Cheers.
I agree as I was trying to say in all my posts every case is different and this JDB one is also different. Those comments were not comparing but replying to someone saying QUOTE - "If the prosecutor in charge gives a shit about their future career then they will have made damn sure they can justify their decision based on the evidence before them.saying they c=take cases on based on pretty much being sure of a guilty verdict" END OF QUOTE
My comment was in reference to prosecutors get it wrong too and gave 2 examples only.....
thats all and my last comment in this thread. You are right... time to stop!. Cheers DQ
 
Last edited:

Drag Queen

Bench
Messages
2,981
I agree as I was trying to say in all my posts every case is different and this JDB one is also different. Those comments were not comparing but replying to someone saying QUOTE - "If the prosecutor in charge gives a shit about their future career then they will have made damn sure they can justify their decision based on the evidence before them.saying they c=take cases on based on pretty much being sure of a guilty verdict" END OF QUOTE
My comment was in reference to prosecutors get it wrong too and gave 2 examples only.....
thats all and my last comment in this thread. You are right... time to stop!. Cheers DQ
We may have a different perspective here but it's definitely time to stop.
 

Dragonslayer

First Grade
Messages
7,825
Maybe its time we we all give this a rest, at least until more light on the matter is revealed.
This thread is just going round and round in endless commenrs about his guilt or innocent, and wether he should or shouldnt be stepped down.
We are 4 days away from seeing some real football being played by our team. Lets at least focus on that for the time-being. Team list tuesday tomorrow, imo will reveal a lot mors than what people think.
 

The Damo

Juniors
Messages
1,991
I agree as I was trying to say in all my posts every case is different and this JDB one is also different. Those comments were not comparing but replying to someone saying QUOTE - "If the prosecutor in charge gives a shit about their future career then they will have made damn sure they can justify their decision based on the evidence before them.saying they c=take cases on based on pretty much being sure of a guilty verdict" END OF QUOTE
My comment was in reference to prosecutors get it wrong too and gave 2 examples only.....
thats all and my last comment in this thread. You are right... time to stop!. Cheers DQ
Man your inference reading is pretty bad. I said nothing to say they take cases being pretty sure of a guilty verdict. I said they think there is a reasonable chance of a guilty verdict, which is how they work dude. You said they take the side of the client, thinking that means the alleged victim, and would’ve just gone ahead no matter what. Which is wrong in almost every possible way. People have differing opinions and that’s cool, but some things have a factual basis and I think it’s important that’s spelled out.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

BLM01

Coach
Messages
10,000
Man your inference reading is pretty bad. I said nothing to say they take cases being pretty sure of a guilty verdict. I said they think there is a reasonable chance of a guilty verdict, which is how they work dude. You said they take the side of the client, thinking that means the victim, and would’ve just gone ahead no matter what. Which is wrong in almost every possible way. People have differing opinions and that’s cool, but some things have a factual basis and I think it’s important that’s spelled out.
Inference reading aye. I copied you words from your quote..LOL. I read your post again of 10.36pm last night. Nice one. I see you have now edited it. I'll excuse you for forgetting cause it was late at night.
 

The Damo

Juniors
Messages
1,991
Inference reading aye. I copied you words from your quote..LOL. I read your post again of 10.36pm last night. Nice one. I see you have now edited it. I'll excuse you for forgetting cause it was late at night.
That’s a lie. The first sentence you quote Up till the word them, I wrote, no problem - the second sentence you added before saying END OF QUOTE is entirely your invention. The post hasn’t been edited and is the same as when I posted. Doesn’t do your argument much good to lie like that friendo.
 

redandwhite4evr

Juniors
Messages
1,938
We still only have part of one side of the story. Both sides of the full story will be put to the courts during the trial. De Belin has obviously told his side of the story to the Club and to the NRL. I'm sure he also would have told the cops.

So until we know both sides of the full story, I suggest we just leave it alone.


Agree- but would just add that its not a matter of just both sides of the story- it is alleged three people were in that room and if so theyre the only three people in the world who know exactly what happened. It might be complicated enough establishing just what happened with just two people but with three the possibilities increase exponentially. To single out De Belin and threaten to stand him down in a contested and complex situation like this, likely to drag out in court for years, in my opinion, is not only unfair to De Belin but would open the NRL and the club to expensive American style litigation.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest posts

Top