News JDB Trial

[Apey]

the legal system doesn’t decide on innocence. It decides on guilt.

and guilt only has 2 modes - guilty and not guilty. If you can’t find someone guilty, then they are by definition not guilty. It’s simple logic.

It's so simple, why haven't the courts adopted it?

This is bordering on the 50% logic, either it is, or it isn't.

Not everything is a dichotomy.

 

[nick87]

the legal system doesn’t decide on innocence. It decides on guilt.

and guilt only has 2 modes - guilty and not guilty. If you can’t find someone guilty, then they are by definition not guilty. It’s simple logic.

No, that's literally not how it works. I dont know how else to explain it, but your logic is not how the legal system works. There is no verdict on his guilt or innocence on the 5 outstanding charges.
He has not recieved a verdict of not guilty on any of the 5 outstanding charges.
...

Im legitimately at a loss for words as to how to explain it more simply than that. Your interpretation on how the legal system is wrong.

 

[nick87]

It's so simple, why haven't the courts adopted it?

This is bordering on the 50% logic, either it is, or it isn't.

Not everything is a dichotomy.

It's skeepe level stuff... either he kicks the goal, or he doesnt! Every kick is a 50/50 proposition


It boggles the mind.

 

[myrrh ken]

No prosecution in any court turns a profit, so claims that its a waste of money to pursue a third trial is baseless.

People here who think they know whether the DPP should or shouldn't pursue a further trial don't really know what they're talking about. Unless there's a DPP solicitor posting on LU, which would be surprising.

The decision to go to trial again won't be a cost benefit analysis, it'll be based on prospects of success and in the interest of justice.

Ha, I wouldn't be surprised at all. Anyway it's all in here: https://www.odpp.nsw.gov.au/prosecution-guidelines

Its a mix of considerations. Cost certainly does come into it so does interests of justice. I'd say the fact that there has been 2 previous goes also goes into it to.

I would say unofficially they aren't immune to the politics of it and the impact on the public either. It's a high profile case and lots of eyes are watching.

 

[myrrh ken]

the legal system doesn’t decide on innocence. It decides on guilt.

and guilt only has 2 modes - guilty and not guilty. If you can’t find someone guilty, then they are by definition not guilty. It’s simple logic.

And the third "mode": can't decide.

 

[nick87]

Ha, I wouldn't be surprised at all. Anyway it's all in here: https://www.odpp.nsw.gov.au/prosecution-guidelines

Its a mix of considerations. Cost certainly does come into it so does interests of justice. I'd say the fact that there has been 2 previous goes also goes into it to.

I would say unofficially they aren't immune to the politics of it and the impact on the public either. It's a high profile case and lots of eyes are watching.

The DPP is absolutely not immune to the politics and external pressures of a high profile case like this.
But i think the biggest factor will come down to the alledged victim and the debrief of the case... first and formost, does the alledged victim wish to continue to persue this?
And if she does, how and why do they believe the jury was hung and do they believe they can achieve what they view as justice in a third trial. Costs are, as i understand it, not a very high consideration on cases like this.

 

[Someguy]

So let’s say this drags on for another 5 years, does he still get paid? He has been stood down pending a result, or will he have to sue NRL for damages if the result goes his way?

 

[myrrh ken]

The DPP is absolutely not immune to the politics and external pressures of a high profile case like this.
But i think the biggest factor will come down to the alledged victim and the debrief of the case... first and formost, does the alledged victim wish to continue to persue this?
And if she does, how and why do they believe the jury was hung and do they believe they can achieve what they view as justice in a third trial. Costs are, as i understand it, not a very high consideration on cases like this.

They definitely need to have her on side. But apart from that, it's beyond that it's more whether they think it's a strong case in light of the hung juries. I think there might be a reluctance to pursue tbh.

 

[nick87]

They definitely need to have her on side. But apart from that, it's beyond that it's more whether they think it's a strong case in light of the hung juries. I think there might be a reluctance to pursue tbh.

I tend to agree
The public pressure to go again might change things, but if i had to guess, and it would only be a guess... i think they'll probably relucantly call it a day on this case.

 

[SBD82]

So let’s say this drags on for another 5 years, does he still get paid? He has been stood down pending a result, or will he have to sue NRL for damages if the result goes his way?

The dragons have released the details of his contract. From memory he is signed from the start of 2021 for a 4 year, $3m deal. But there are caveats where the dragons pay him a reduced amount (approx $1k pw) while he is unavailable due to the court case.

 

[nick87]

So let’s say this drags on for another 5 years, does he still get paid? He has been stood down pending a result, or will he have to sue NRL for damages if the result goes his way?

I could be wrong but he's being paid his full wage under the NFSD policy, isnt he?
if so, he'll get paid as long as he has a contract, if someone else wishes to give him a contract, he'll continue to get paid. If he no longer has a contract, he wont get paid.

 

[Generalzod]

Say the prosecution goes for a third trial isn’t it manipulating the justice system to get a result they want.

 

[SBD82]

Say the prosecution goes for a third trial isn’t it manipulating the justice system to get a result they want.

In what way? They don’t have a conclusive verdict yet.

 

[nick87]

The dragons have released the details of his contract. From memory he is signed from the start of 2021 for a 4 year, $3m deal. But there are caveats where the dragons pay him a reduced amount (approx $1k pw) while he is unavailable due to the court case.

disregard my post
If this is his deal he’ll get paid according to his contract and it’s terms like anyone else

 

[Generalzod]

In what way? They don’t have a conclusive verdict yet.

They had 2 chances already and the jury come to no conclusion.

 

[nick87]

Say the prosecution goes for a third trial isn’t it manipulating the justice system to get a result they want.

there is no result on the outstanding charges.
What exactly are they manipulating?
The prosecution is entitled to peruse outstanding charges in court

 

[Generalzod]

there is no result on the outstanding charges.
What exactly are they manipulating?
The prosecution is entitled to peruse outstanding charges in court

To get the verdict they want...

 

[The_Frog]

The DPP is absolutely not immune to the politics and external pressures of a high profile case like this.

The background noise accompanying this case is miniscule compared to the Pell case. As leader of the Catholic Church following damning Royal Commission findings, he was about the least popular person in the country, and just about everyone in Australia was swayed by the Royal Commission and its accompanying media sideshow which surely meant he was guilty. The Victorian Police pursued their man with extraordinary zeal. And not only the second jury (after a hung jury on the first trial) but two of the three judges in the Victorian Supreme Court got this wrong. Even lay people could see the problems in the verdict, which was finally ruled to be unsound in the High Court after Pell had been in prison for 13 months.

De Belin's case has nothing on that.

 

[nick87]

To get the verdict they want...

So what are they manipulating?
There has been no verdict they want or dont want. There is no verdict at all on the 5 outstanding charges. They're not relentlessly appealing a verdict rendered. There is no verdict. JDB remains charged on the 5 outstanding count.

They're entitled to persue those charges.

 

[The_Frog]

To get the verdict they want...

That is how it works, yes.