News JDB Trial

[nick87]

I agree and so with that being said as a society we should be able to talk about how to reduce/avoid this kind of thing (like suggesting to women not to go home from night clubs with strangers AND men why even bother going to night clubs) without that kind of talk getting thrown in the "victim blaming" bin.

The trouble is, and this is unrelated to this case, as billythekid said, and as i said in the previous JDB thread, there is no way for us to know the truth of this.

But with that being said the problem with you are saying there is those talks are very rarely conducted in good faith IMO regarding what can/should be done, and often IMO centre too much around asking women to act and behaviour in a certain way to avoid situations rather than holding men accountable for their actions.

I have a son and i have a daughter. Of course i will do my best to warn my daughter of the pitfalls and dangers that come with her gender. But there is little more i can do than that, and hope and pray she is not a victim some form of abuse (though sadly, at the moment roughly 1/3 women do, and i don't like those odds if I'm being perfectly honest)

So my focus is on my son, and teaching him what is wrong and right, setting an example and a standard and raising him to be the sort of man who not only upholds those standards but holds those around him accountable to them too. In the context of the society, i would say we need to talk more about that and less about what women should or shouldnt be doing.

 

[Captain Apollo]

In relation to hung juries, the followiong is from the NSW Communities and Justice website (source: https://www.victimsservices.justice...ticejourney/vs_court-cases-trial-process.aspx) -

If after a certain period of time the Jury can't all agree, then It is the role and decision of the Judge to give instructions to the jury about their options.

1. The first option is that the jury can arrive at a majority verdict where only one person disagrees with the other jury members.
2. The second option, if more than one person on the jury disagrees, is that there is a hung jury. If there is a hung jury, there may be another trial, with another jury.

.....

Other scenarios
Retrial resulting from a hung jury
Not all trials end with a verdict of guilty or not guilty. If the majority of jurors cannot agree, it is called a hung jury and there is no verdict. The accused may then face a retrial which is a second trial, with another jury.

In some cases, the prosecution may decide that the evidence isn't strong enough to have another trial and direct that there are no further proceedings.

More serious crimes are more likely to be retried. You may have to give evidence at a retrial. The prosecutor will speak to you about giving evidence at a retrial.

I dare say that knowing the result of the hung jury is immaterial as at any re-trial, that jury has to come to its own decisions about the case and not be influenced by the previous jury as it is a new trial.

Just by way of background, this is a paper from March 2002 which the NSW Bureau of Crime Statistics did on the issue of hung juries which some of you may find of interest - https://www.bocsar.nsw.gov.au/Publications/CJB/cjb66.pdf

 

[Bring back John Fifita]

In relation to hung juries, the followiong is from the NSW Communities and Justice website (source: https://www.victimsservices.justice...ticejourney/vs_court-cases-trial-process.aspx) -



I dare say that knowing the result of the hung jury is immaterial as at any re-trial, that jury has to come to its own decisions about the case and not be influenced by the previous jury as it is a new trial.

Just by way of background, this is a paper from March 2002 which the NSW Bureau of Crime Statistics did on the issue of hung juries which some of you may find of interest - https://www.bocsar.nsw.gov.au/Publications/CJB/cjb66.pdf

Retrial set for April next year. If that's also a hung jury....

 

[T-Boon]

The trouble is, and this is unrelated to this case, as billythekid said, and as i said in the previous JDB thread, there is no way for us to know the truth of this.

But with that being said the problem with you are saying there is those talks are very rarely conducted in good faith IMO regarding what can/should be done, and often IMO centre too much around asking women to act and behaviour in a certain way to avoid situations rather than holding men accountable for their actions.

I have a son and i have a daughter. Of course i will do my best to warn my daughter of the pitfalls and dangers that come with her gender. But there is little more i can do than that, and hope and pray she is not a victim some form of abuse (though sadly, at the moment roughly 1/3 women do, and i don't like those odds if I'm being perfectly honest)

So my focus is on my son, and teaching him what is wrong and right, setting an example and a standard and raising him to be the sort of man who not only upholds those standards but holds those around him accountable to them too. In the context of the society, i would say we need to talk more about that and less about what women should or shouldnt be doing.

Its probably obvious that I myself don't have daughters (if I did I would certainly think exactly like the other FODs on here do), but I do have sisters and I think that gives me better balance. Like I'd get in a fight for them, but I also know what they are up to (whereas dad certainly didnt).

 

[Captain Apollo]

*deleted*

Marshall, those are the kinds of questions that potential jurors are asked during jury selection. No judge would allow a potential juror to remain on a case in those circumstances as that would be "apparent" bias (i.e. as in it would appear they may be biased towards one side because of what they support, namely the SGI Dragons).

Also we do not know whether it was 10-2, 8-4, 6 all or what at the end. We suspect 10-2 but do not know for sure.

Further without us having heard the evidence or been in the jury room, there is no guarantee that is why the first jury could not come to a unanimous verdict.

 

[Marshall_magic]

Marshall, those are the kinds of questions that potential jurors are asked during jury selection. No judge would allow a potential juror to remain on a case in those circumstances as that would be "apparent" bias (i.e. as in it would appear they may be biased towards one side because of what they support, namely the SGI Dragons).

Also we do not know whether it was 10-2, 8-4, 6 all or what at the end. We suspect 10-2 but do not know for sure.

Further without us having heard the evidence or been in the jury room, there is no guarantee that is why the first jury could not come to a unanimous verdict.

I am not super well versed in the judicial system, like to what extent screening occurs. I know both sides can remove a certain number potential jurors for whatever reason they like. I find it hard to believe you’ve had 12 people with no preconceived notions about this case one way or another, but I guess you trust people to do the right thing (judge based on what they see and hear in a courtroom).

You are right that we have no idea what the vote was, why it was hung and how strong personalities were.

 

[The_Frog]

Retrial set for April next year. If that's also a hung jury....

Even Pell only had one hung jury. Then the second trial, then the first appeal, before the High Court decided the matter.

 

[Knight76]

But with that being said the problem with you are saying there is those talks are very rarely conducted in good faith IMO regarding what can/should be done, and often IMO centre too much around asking women to act and behaviour in a certain way to avoid situations rather than holding men accountable for their actions.

I have a son and i have a daughter. Of course i will do my best to warn my daughter of the pitfalls and dangers that come with her gender. But there is little more i can do than that, and hope and pray she is not a victim some form of abuse (though sadly, at the moment roughly 1/3 women do, and i don't like those odds if I'm being perfectly honest)

I have 2 sons and a daughter.

So your daughter, are you raising your daughter that she can act however she wishes without any fear of consequence? Are you raising her with the lesson that she can act as promiscuous as she pleases, be as flirtatious as she likes at clubs, bars wherever and that will lead to a totally risk free fun time?

And if she is too young at this time, will you?

T-Boon's comment is spot on, there needs to be a discussion about women placing themselves in vulnerable situations. I don't go to the local supermarket at 10pm because I know it isn't a great place for safety at that time. Should I be able to go there safely and hit up K-Mart for my cheap imported products? Sure, but that don't make it so.

There is victim blaming, like if she didn't dress like that she wouldn't have been raped. And then there is the discussion around being safe, making sensible decisions that don't put you at risk.

 

[nick87]

My thoughts and intentions regarding my daughter have, i think been made quite clear.
The idea that a women cannot act in a flirtatious or promiscuous manner without incuring great risk (you and i dont have this problem, curious thing that isnt it? Power imbalance is a cur... no f**king obvious thing) is precisely the problem i'd like society to attempt to address, rather than focus on what women should or should not do, id prefer to try to focus on how make men accountable for their behaviour.

My position is clear. I would like to focus on correcting the abhorent behaviour of potential perpetators. As is yours, who it would seem is interested in limited the attitudes and behaviours of potential victims.

 

[Vee]

I have a son and i have a daughter. Of course i will do my best to warn my daughter of the pitfalls and dangers that come with her gender. But there is little more i can do than that, and hope and pray she is not a victim some form of abuse (though sadly, at the moment roughly 1/3 women do, and i don't like those odds if I'm being perfectly honest)

So my focus is on my son, and teaching him what is wrong and right, setting an example and a standard and raising him to be the sort of man who not only upholds those standards but holds those around him accountable to them too. In the context of the society, i would say we need to talk more about that and less about what women should or shouldnt be doing.

Teach your sons to be gentlemen and your daughters not to accept anything less.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Maybe some of these imbeciles will think twice now before putting themselves into compromising positions.

There will always be risk takers involved in the game who don't think about the consequences of rooting a stranger after getting stuck into the piss at a nightclub. The game isn't for people who are risk adverse.

Put it into their contracts that as long as they're contracted to the NRL they are forbidden from attending venues late at night without the presence of a club official who can keep an eye on them, with the money for the official's services coming out of the player's pocket. Anyone who breaks this rule should be deregistered.

 

[Mr Angry]

Well I have issue with our justice system.

I have no opinion on the case.

But it takes two years for a person to seek justice, then cannot reach verdict, ok, but 8 months to be heard again?

Australia needs to do better than to leave people waiting 3 years for a verdict.

Hire more Judges, not sure, but three years is just not correct.

 

[Billythekid]

The trouble is, and this is unrelated to this case, as billythekid said, and as i said in the previous JDB thread, there is no way for us to know the truth of this.

But with that being said the problem with you are saying there is those talks are very rarely conducted in good faith IMO regarding what can/should be done, and often IMO centre too much around asking women to act and behaviour in a certain way to avoid situations rather than holding men accountable for their actions.

I have a son and i have a daughter. Of course i will do my best to warn my daughter of the pitfalls and dangers that come with her gender. But there is little more i can do than that, and hope and pray she is not a victim some form of abuse (though sadly, at the moment roughly 1/3 women do, and i don't like those odds if I'm being perfectly honest)

So my focus is on my son, and teaching him what is wrong and right, setting an example and a standard and raising him to be the sort of man who not only upholds those standards but holds those around him accountable to them too. In the context of the society, i would say we need to talk more about that and less about what women should or shouldnt be doing.

A-f**king-men.

 

[Generalzod]

So what happens if again the jury comes out unable to come to a conclusion...wouldn’t this be a waste on tax payers money.

 

[Generalzod]

Well I have issue with our justice system.

I have no opinion on the case.

But it takes two years for a person to seek justice, then cannot reach verdict, ok, but 8 months to be heard again?

Australia needs to do better than to leave people waiting 3 years for a verdict.

Hire more Judges, not sure, but three years is just not correct.

This is my opinion if the jury can’t reach a verdict, the next trial should just be heard in front of a judge no jury.

 

[Tiger Shark]

Well I have issue with our justice system.

I have no opinion on the case.

But it takes two years for a person to seek justice, then cannot reach verdict, ok, but 8 months to be heard again?

Australia needs to do better than to leave people waiting 3 years for a verdict.

Hire more Judges, not sure, but three years is just not correct.

Not quite that simple and the delay has been due to COVID and the backlog of cases. Though that doesn't explain the first large delay.

 

[Generalzod]

Teach your sons to be gentlemen and your daughters not to accept anything less.

Exactly what my dear ol mother taught us when we where young to be respectful to women. God I miss my mother.

 

[Babyface O'reilly]

I have 2 sons and a daughter.

So your daughter, are you raising your daughter that she can act however she wishes without any fear of consequence? Are you raising her with the lesson that she can act as promiscuous as she pleases, be as flirtatious as she likes at clubs, bars wherever and that will lead to a totally risk free fun time?

I don’t think you understood Nick’s post. As a father of three girls, I thought his post was spot on.

 

[Valheru]

So what happens if again the jury comes out unable to come to a conclusion...wouldn’t this be a waste on tax payers money.

To me, if a jury fails to come to decision then that is the very definition of reasonable doubt.

 

[Generalzod]

I don’t think you understood Nick’s post. As a father of three girls, I thought his post was spot on.

I tell both my son and daughter to be careful when they go out at night....