Josh Dugan officially signs a 4 year deal with the Cronulla-Sutherland Sharks

[Saintsified]

I think Dugan is a tremendous loss. He has grown up since coming to the Dragons to the point of his name being mentioned as future captain of the mighty RED V. We cannot fall into the trap of the 5 year plan. As everyone knows players can be a standout in lower grades but never make it in the NRL. The young player who burst into first grade we often lose them to other clubs. I feel frustrated that we are finally getting over the long term mess Bennett left us and we have lost 2 marquee players Packer and Dugan that we need if we are going to challenge for the premiership. These two have a lot of football left in them. It is so disappointing to lose them. I hope they continue to perform at their best for the rest of 2017.
Their are only 3 NRL recognised fullbacks that may come onto the market
Haine,
for: brilliant at best.
against: can lose interest in the middle of a game. Not a great team man. Poor trainer
Ben Barber.
For: A match winner on his day, would give some flair to our backline. The Dragons do well with these players with problems. Would have to serve 12 weeks suspension before recommending his career in the NRL. If he signed now he could be right to start in 2018. We should be able to pick him up cheaply.

Against: has a history of his on field form being either a high or poor standard. Party drugs seem to be his weakness. Would need a minder in his free time to keep him on track.

Hopoate not sure if he has resigned with the dogs.
For: being in good form. Will now play Sundays.
Against. Won't train on Sundays.

But can we announce his signing on Sunday?

 

[Frank Facer]

Dugan played with heart and passion for us during his time at he club. Performed like a professional athlete committed to giving his best for the club he played with. Not certain he delivered this at Canberra before coming to us and I like to think we helped him to "grow up" as a person and player.
Moving forward... he remains a professional player who needs to secure the best deal in the short period of a players career. Taking a four year contract is good sense. Congratulations to him. I wish him the best for the future except when playing ourselves.
The handling of negotiations by Millard Have lots of thoughts. I'm not certain what actually went down but being in this place here's my two bits worth on where we find ourselves now..

- I agree with the club in not offering a four year deal to Dugan.
- Mary may believe Josh is a fullback but he doesn't offer the attacking skills required to win a comp. i.e. His passing ability continues to stifle the play and is likely the reason why no other team has signed him up as their first choice number one.
- I'm not certain that teams can win the comp unless all 4 players in the spine are of higher quality. We have 3 out of 4 in 2018 locked up now. Who plays in the number 1 is a critical decision and could be the difference between winning the comp and just playing finals footy.
- we have players coming through who could fill the vacancy soon (Field, Duffy). A gamble will need to be made on either them being ready early or bringing in a player at risk of loosing one or both of our juniors. Either way, there will be lots of posts on this!
- Mann remains the versatile man and pretty soon he and the club will need to come to an agreement on what that will look like moving into 2018 and beyond. I hope we don't loose him as I like him and wouldn't mind him having a shot at the fullback role as he has speed, can ball play, defends ok, and when Widdop moves on could slot into 5/8.
- centre remains a position of concern for me. Now that duges can't play there, and Even though we have signed Aitkin, I remain unconvinced that he is our best option. Not really seeing lots of tries through him and too many questions about his defensive strategy. Again, a junior coming through could be our solution.
- Dugan not resigning frees up cash. Hopefully we give good thought on how we spend it. ouf team still lacks a bit of spark in the backs. That player who scores or sets up tries from nothing. Do we buy that or can we develop it from investing in our Juniors?

Interesting days ahead and lots for us to comment upon via this forum. Got to love the footy season when the Dragons are doing well!

Great post. I agree with everything you said. I would really like to see Field given a shot a fullback this year. I think he could be the player who can provide the spark, who can score or set up tries from nothing, as you said in your last paragraph. If we could manage to get Hunt here this year, like one or 2 have said is possible and if we had Field performing at fullback, then we could become a real genuine premiership threat this year? I would not mind if Dufty was given a shot either.

As for our centres. I think Lafai and Milne are both attacking threats. I would be fine with them as our centres, this year and next. I am also keen to see Herbert, Garrick and Lomax. From what I have heard of them, it sounds like we are well stocked for outside backs.

 

[possm]

Oh no, I'll miss the Duges.
But you know what? He's still a top bloke who gave his all. He wanted to stay, but Mudhead Milward was foolish again.

And we also have another reason to hate the Sharks.

Yes, what a mess. Dugan has signed with the Sharks for similar dollars and a year extra to the contract tabled him by the Dragons. If Millward showed some professionalism and not made the 'centre money' comment, I'm sure Dugan would still be with us. Centre is Dugan's future but there could have been a transition period in which our aspiring young fullbacks could be eased into the roll by switching positions with Dugan through games.

Millward had the opportunity to saddle up to Dugan and instead of insulting him, make him feel good by emphasising the noble role he could play with bringing through our young guns while at the same time being paid market value as a marquee player for the Dragons.

I have been loud about Millward because I am absolutely sick and tired of key official positions being occupied within our Club by unprofessional old boys not skilled for the position.

 

[possm]

The thing that worries me is players like Mann and Milne will continue to get dicked around by McGregor in regards to game time, positions etc and will end up moving on because Mcgregor is looking after his own arse.

I think know knowing Dugans position we really need to use these players more and shuffle Dugan around to accommodate them

Aitken is out long term right now, so Milne should be our right centre unless Dugan is moved their in order to test our young fullbacks this year. If Milne is not in Millward's plans for 2018, then Dugan to right centre is the ideal move with Dufty/Field/Mann being tested at fullback. In my view Dufty/Field still need an off-season and a year in reserve grade to get their body right for first grade.

Dufty really needs to improve his defence and if he had good defence would be the front runner for the fullback position.

Field is dynamic and because Millward has announced him to be the next fullback, is favoured to get first crack in being tested. His body is the least ready for first grade and those assessing his test will have to take this into consideration.

Mann is not a favourite of Mary's and although seeming to be a very handy player who has done well in every test thrown at him this season, has not been mentioned at any time in Millward's plans for next year. I would say he appears to be the best candidate within the Club given his very strong defence, ball playing, speed and elusiveness. He also has no problems under the high ball.

Reports that the Dragons are chasing Walker / Johnston from South Sydney are a worry. To me it looks to be an economical decision and a throw back to the days when our cap was miss-managed by the Club. It sheds a new light on the reason why Millward did not sign Dugan and Packer. It could very well be that Millward spent up big on retaining juniors and came to the conclusion that a their was not enough cap to accommodate the remaining positions that are needing retention/recruitment.

For me there are only two real solutions to filling the fullback position for 2018:
1. Fill the position from within by testing candidates in 2017.
2. Recruit a suitable fullback from another club. It is my understanding that only Hayne is uncontracted for 2018. He has an option which needs to be taken up before the end of May. Both Mitchell for the Roosters and Johnston/Walker from South Sydney are all under contract for 2018 and so will need a release from their contracts. From all reports, a release for these players is unlikely. In addition, neither of these 3 players are like for like or better players when comparing them with Dugan.

On the other hand, Hayne and Barber are both marquee players and if in the right state of mind, could actually be an upgrade - in skill terms only - to the fullback position. Both of these players would need to be reformed and a plan set out to improve their behaviour in a similar way that the Dragons did such excellent work on Dugan and Packer.

 

[possm]

Well put & pretty much sums up the way I see it. I will add I think we actually withdrew any offer in the end forcing Duges to sign with the Sharks , hence waiving the cooling off period for fear the Sharks would give him a 'take it or leave it' ultimatum. Anyway, a shame he is leaving but better players have left clubs before and I can't recall any of them collapsing. We will move on.

I think this whole retention of Dugan exercise was badly conducted by Millward and Dugan's manager. End result is Dugan to play centre on similar coin to the offer of both parties. The only real difference between the offers was an extra year offered by the Sharks.

Dugan gains a year of security and the opportunity to play under a different coach.
Dugan's manager gets commission for the extra year.
Millward gets extra cap space and an opportunity to slot in Field at fullback.
The Dragons lose a marquee quality player.
The Sharks replace Bird with Dugan.

 

[dungay dragon]

I think this whole retention of Dugan exercise was badly conducted by Millward and Dugan's manager. End result is Dugan to play centre on similar coin to the offer of both parties. The only real difference between the offers was an extra year offered by the Sharks.

Dugan gains a year of security and the opportunity to play under a different coach.
Dugan's manager gets commission for the extra year.
Millward gets extra cap space and an opportunity to slot in Field at fullback.
The Dragons lose a marquee quality player.
The Sharks replace Bird with Dugan.

While i agree with most posts on here , we need to be mindful that we are in with a real chance of giving this years comp a real crack with this current squad. I wouldn't be tinkering too much this year with our line up , as a trial for next year and auditions for Full back in particular.
Unless we can snare a Hayne, Latrell Mitchell or Cody Walker for 2018 i would be looking in house to fill the FB next year
Field, Dufty, Mann are the obvious local contenders and i ll throw in a bolter who i believe could be a sensation and in the Dugan mould ,,,, Aitken

 

[possm]

While i agree with most posts on here , we need to be mindful that we are in with a real chance of giving this years comp a real crack with this current squad. I wouldn't be tinkering too much this year with our line up , as a trial for next year and auditions for Full back in particular.
Unless we can snare a Hayne, Latrell Mitchell or Cody Walker for 2018 i would be looking in house to fill the FB next year
Field, Dufty, Mann are the obvious local contenders and i ll throw in a bolter who i believe could be a sensation and in the Dugan mould ,,,, Aitken

Yes I understand and can see your point. The problem is that no time is the best time to blood young juniors in first grade. Even with a bad start to the season, there is always the hope to turn things around and so the reluctance to take risks with juniors.

Well we can't have our cake and eat it too. Now Millward has decided to let Dugan and Packer go. So the next step is to recruit like for like or better from outside the Club or to progress the young guns we have been developing from within the Club. In my mind the timing is not the best because their is a risk that our young guns are not ready.

There are some players in-house who seem to be candidates for the two vacant positions however, they are largely untested and must be tested this year in order to maintain momentum for 2018 when we will be without Dugan and Packer. With Hunt being on board in 2018 and with the successful replacement of Packer and Dugan being made prior to the next off-season, the Dragons could put themselves in a great position to compete for the premiership.

So we are looking for a fullback and a prop and we have contenders from within for both positions.

In the forwards there is plenty of scope to test a new prop in the same way that Sele has been tested. So let's do this for Packers position while still playing Packer in his current role. No difficult at all.

Fullback is a more difficult position to test a player in however there is a simple method that I believe Mary should adopt. It will mean displacing a centre or winger during this testing without compromising team performance. Largely Mary has been doing this but in a watered down fashion and without the intent of finding a replacement for Dugan.

Dufty
Dufty could be placed on the bench in the next two games while Dugan is on SOO duty and later on the field as centre. Select Field on the bench and Mann at 6. Give Dufty and Field half a game each and if things go wrong, move Mann to fullback and Field to 6.

In the next few games select Dugan at right centre and either Field, Mann or McCrone on the bench. If things go wrong, move Mann to right centre, Dugan to fullback and McCrone or Field to halfback.

As contenders are eliminated because of unsuitability, the list of candidates shortens and the risks diminish. The whole idea is to determine if we need to fill the fullback vacancy from within or recruit from outside the Club. By the end of season 2017 we should know the answer to this question. On the down side, we may miss candidates from outside the Club due to them being signed by other clubs.

 

[Lethal25]

I think this whole retention of Dugan exercise was badly conducted by Millward and Dugan's manager. End result is Dugan to play centre on similar coin to the offer of both parties. The only real difference between the offers was an extra year offered by the Sharks.

Dugan gains a year of security and the opportunity to play under a different coach.
Dugan's manager gets commission for the extra year.
Millward gets extra cap space and an opportunity to slot in Field at fullback.
The Dragons lose a marquee quality player.
The Sharks replace Bird with Dugan.

I get your frustration but sharks will also lose leutele to the Titans, from a cap perspective I liken this signing to Bmoz and the dogs. It's a lot of coin for a centre and I feel overall it doesn't help the Sharks manage their roster in the longer term.

The pain point is we lose a very good fullback and now are left in the lurch as we don't have a like replacement, one of the kids may be that good but we just don't know yet. On a positive there should be something left in the till to secure good talent

 

[possm]

Don't agree... we have a team that can go a long way this year (now the Duges saga is over we can start talking footy again) play the players in their right positions so long as they maintain form... one change may be when Widdop is back Mann plays half back

Your suggestion is an option but it comes with consequences. To go down the track you are suggesting means the Dragons need to recruit a first grade fullback from outside the Club delaying the promotion of tested juniors and taking up a substantial amount of the cap.

 

[Crush]

I think we have a genuine shot at playing finals this year so if Dugan is our best fullback then that's where he should play this season.
It would be nice if he could stay fit for the rest of the year so that we could get our money's worth out of him.

 

[possm]

I really wish there was a transfer window between 1 November and 31 January the following year. I hate all of this turmoil mid season and the idea of our favourite players having to announce a new signing at another club while needing to continue to play for his current club.

The NRL need to step in and act accordingly.

 

[hazzbeen]

I really wish there was a transfer window between 1 November and 31 January the following year. I hate all of this turmoil mid season and the idea of our favourite players having to announce a new signing at another club while needing to continue to play for his current club.

The NRL need to step in and act accordingly.

Mr Hart WHAT A MESS

 

[Willow]

Saints have been good for Dugan and Dugan has been good for Saints. Good luck to him, that's some healthy coin.

I've enjoyed watching Dugan play for us but don't see him delivering at that same level for another 4 years. I imagine the sharks hope to see him settle back into that 'experienced team mate' role in the shire,

For his own sake, I trust he will steer clear of Northies.

 

[Drag Queen]

No

Yes, what a mess. Dugan has signed with the Sharks for similar dollars and a year extra to the contract tabled him by the Dragons. If Millward showed some professionalism and not made the 'centre money' comment, I'm sure Dugan would still be with us. Centre is Dugan's future but there could have been a transition period in which our aspiring young fullbacks could be eased into the roll by switching positions with Dugan through games.

Millward had the opportunity to saddle up to Dugan and instead of insulting him, make him feel good by emphasising the noble role he could play with bringing through our young guns while at the same time being paid market value as a marquee player for the Dragons.

I have been loud about Millward because I am absolutely sick and tired of key official positions being occupied within our Club by unprofessional old boys not skilled for the position.

Jeezuz.. What role do you hold in the house? I'm new to this forum..

 

[possm]

I think we have a genuine shot at playing finals this year so if Dugan is our best fullback then that's where he should play this season.
It would be nice if he could stay fit for the rest of the year so that we could get our money's worth out of him.

As usual Crush, we are on opposite sides of this argument. Your suggestion has merit however, it is based on your 'feeling we have a genuine shot at playing finals this season'. You are indicating your view that if Dugan does not play fullback we would no longer have a genuine shot.
I have a different view. I absolutely believe it better to test our young guns for the fullback position this year in order to have a plan for the 2018 season mainly because if we don't, we are likely to waste another year in our quest to win a GF.
The Club made a decision that Dugan was better for the Club at right centre and it appears that NSW SOO and Australian Kangaroos have made the same decision. I also think this is the case. So from my point of view we will be strenghting our team by playing Dugan at right centre for the reminder of the season. Who knows Dufty/Field/Mann may turn out to be great fullbacks and if so, we have strengthened our problematic right edge and increased our strike power from the back. Of course there are other options however, I think no more important than the idea of having our squad settled for 2018.
In addition to having Dugan at right centre, I would also like to see Kerr and Lawrie rotated through the bench to gage their suitability for first grade.

 

[mickeylane]

Dragons pulled the offer last Wd i just heard join radio which meant Dugan had no pother choice but accept the Sharks offer - Dragons have agreed w a replacement or at least w another ba

Cronulla FINALLY stumbles to its first premiership after 49-years of glorious failure, and yet, this troglodyte suddenly thinks it will claim a 'three peat' in 2018?

I reckon the poor lad has been spending too much time BLOWing his life away with the likes of Damien Keogh and/Ben Barba.

C.S.F.C aka Curious Supplements Football Club.

I do think Sharks will be in the big one this year w either ourselves or Melbourne or Raiders - they will fall a big one next year though...

 

[mickeylane]

Yes, I think that we should move Dugan to centre and give either Dufty or Field a proper go at fullback this year. If Dufty was to be given a shot, then I would like Field playing fullback in reserves. I really am warming to the idea of Field at fullback. Playing behind our big pack and with Hunt and Widdop feeding him the ball, I think he could be sensation there. He could really be the X factor that we have been missing. Field could be a marquee player in the next 3 or 4 years.

The problem with moving Dugan to centre is that I am pretty happy with Lafai and Milne there now.

You cant be happy w Milnes defensive reads...we have trouble in the right centre position....i think Dugan to rightt centre is a good call...will shore up our defense no end and a weapon out wide...

 

[possm]

You cant be happy w Milnes defensive reads...we have trouble in the right centre position....i think Dugan to rightt centre is a good call...will shore up our defense no end and a weapon out wide...

We've had the same problem for years no matter who is at right centre. I think we need to go back to Gasnier to find a capable right centre. Must be a coaching thing.

 

[hermidale1]

All this talk of the club in a mess really is amusing.
Let's say Josh Dugan re signed for 4 years on the money he wanted. That would guarantee Matt Dufty would walk away when his contract expires at the end of 2018.
And who could blame him?? He now has a chance to show his value to the club by performing in the Illawarra squad. While he definitely needs to work on his defence, which has improved, he has something that the others lack and that's lightning speed. And he loves to follow around for the inside ball. Scored plenty of tries in both 20's and Illawarra that way.
I hope Mary gives him a shot soon. And not just a couple of games, but a decent run to find his feet and confidence.
Our future squad will have Dufty, Host, Leilua and Sele there.

 

[Crush]

As usual Crush, we are on opposite sides of this argument. Your suggestion has merit however, it is based on your 'feeling we have a genuine shot at playing finals this season'. You are indicating your view that if Dugan does not play fullback we would no longer have a genuine shot.
I have a different view. I absolutely believe it better to test our young guns for the fullback position this year in order to have a plan for the 2018 season mainly because if we don't, we are likely to waste another year in our quest to win a GF.
The Club made a decision that Dugan was better for the Club at right centre and it appears that NSW SOO and Australian Kangaroos have made the same decision. I also think this is the case. So from my point of view we will be strenghting our team by playing Dugan at right centre for the reminder of the season. Who knows Dufty/Field/Mann may turn out to be great fullbacks and if so, we have strengthened our problematic right edge and increased our strike power from the back. Of course there are other options however, I think no more important than the idea of having our squad settled for 2018.
In addition to having Dugan at right centre, I would also like to see Kerr and Lawrie rotated through the bench to gage their suitability for first grade.

Hey Possm, I actually do think that we have a genuine shot at the comp this year if all things were to fall into line.
I think Dugan is streets ahead of the young blokes at fullback purely because of his experience. His positional play is naturally much better than dufty, field, mann no doubt. The second best fullback at the club currently would be Nightingale hence why he is the go to fullback when Dugan is injured.
Just because Dugan is leaving next year doesn't mean we start experimenting for next year. Its round 11 and we are running 4th for gods sake! If we were rubbish this year then I would agree with your sentiments to start trialling guys for next year.
We are the real deal this year Possm.