Junior Amone

[The Word]

No but the point your a missing you dont have to be guilty of a crime in court to bring the game into disrepute. Maybe there is not enough evidence about bringing the game into disrepute yet...that is why nothing has happened. IIDK
The crime stuff will find its way eventually.
Dugan and Fergo got sacked from Canberra after rooftop breezer incidents, bringing the game into disrepute when they should of been at training or some other club thing?
Dugans prior form was minor stuff being late to training or missing sessions etc
Dont know even if Fergo had priors either
Chill...That is all we are trying to point out here

All good BLM.

At the end of the day my thoughts are that the club's legal adviser will tell them not to cancel Junior's contract atm for all the reasons I've banged on about.

A lot of people seem to think they will cancel his contract.

What will be will be, we shall see.

 

[The Silverdale Phantom]

No. They didn't need to because they didn't cancel his contract.
And what is this granting me the indulgence that he is found not guilty? That's the whole premise of the debate.
This discussion is going backwards. I'm out, and I really mean in this time lol.

No, the premise of the debate isn’t that he is not guilty, as that is yet to be determined.

@BLM01 is right.

Disrepute?

I’m not sure any hard core fans would think his alleged crime brought the club or the NRL disrepute because we are reasonable and understand that neither sgi or the nrl would condone or be pleased with the events.

People with little engagement with the game may simplify it down to another bad footy player from a bad game doing bad things. That’s what they like to believe, it’s their model of the world.

Would anyone who cares about the game give it up over this? Would any of you guys walk from sgi over this? I really don’t think so.

I think he’s only brought himself into disrepute.

But whatever they do, they really should try to use it constructively and help prevent other players from flipping out if they can. If players ever feel prone to violent outbursts off field or find themselves angry, they might benefit from counselling etc.

Hang about and keep contributing. It’s good.

“indulgence” means “assuming you are right” which I am quite unsure of.

The Police charged him with a serious offence, and they think he’s guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. It’s not a half assed charge, it’s very serious.

They might have selected a less serious charge if they detected any issues. something easier to prove. Just stuck with the intimidation for example.

The property damage seems cut and dried from a distance anyway.



source: 9 news.

 

[Dragonssupporter]

As i said in earlier posts i think the best thing for the club is for them to tell Amone he is no longer training with the main squad, but can train on his own.I doubt theres anything in any contract that says they cant do this. Then get Sullivan training as our new 5/8 and move on. This keeps the squad intact and breaks no rules.Let the legal proceedings go along as they do (remembering how long it took JDBs trial to happen). It costs us money but were complying with all rules until the NRL steps in-then let them do whatever they see fit. For me the critical bit is to train with a new 5/8 and not have Amone occupying that spot at training knowing full well he will not be playing this year. If by any chance a miracle occurs and Amone is found not guilty, we still have him back but fighting for his spot back. Anything else will wreck our whole year again- we dont know what the other players might think of playing and training with a guy up on very serious charges. We stuffed up once with JDB-lets not do it again

 

[blue bags]

I suspect that Jnr Amones football career is not even in a consideration at this time as there are much bigger fish being fried.

by the looks of things it's a court career at the moment

 

[BLM01]

All good BLM.

At the end of the day my thoughts are that the club's legal adviser will tell them not to cancel Junior's contract atm for all the reasons I've banged on about.

A lot of people seem to think they will cancel his contract.

What will be will be, we shall see.

Yes I am like you, there is likely not enough info to act..yet. Public or socail media photos or evidence available etc. None of us know what the police have.
But for the NRL and their new policy I thought there was. For a charge that carries max 11+ yrs stand him down?. Why have they not yet if that is the case?
I still dont understand what the NRL Integrity unit of ex players etc do in these criminal situations outside the law and what they investigate and what takes them so long. To work out a suspension?. To cut the contract or not?

 

[blacksafake]

Yes I am like you, there is likely not enough info to act..yet. Public or socail media photos or evidence available etc. None of us know what the police have.
But for the NRL and their new policy I thought there was. For a charge that carries max 11+ yrs stand him down?. Why have they not yet if that is the case?
I still dont understand what the NRL Integrity unit of ex players etc do in these criminal situations outside the law and what they investigate and what takes them so long. To work out a suspension?. To cut the contract or not?

They’ll probably wait till the season Is upon us then stand him down

 

[BLM01]

As i said in earlier posts i think the best thing for the club is for them to tell Amone he is no longer training with the main squad, but can train on his own.I doubt theres anything in any contract that says they cant do this. Then get Sullivan training as our new 5/8 and move on. This keeps the squad intact and breaks no rules.Let the legal proceedings go along as they do (remembering how long it took JDBs trial to happen). It costs us money but were complying with all rules until the NRL steps in-then let them do whatever they see fit. For me the critical bit is to train with a new 5/8 and not have Amone occupying that spot at training knowing full well he will not be playing this year. If by any chance a miracle occurs and Amone is found not guilty, we still have him back but fighting for his spot back. Anything else will wreck our whole year again- we dont know what the other players might think of playing and training with a guy up on very serious charges. We stuffed up once with JDB-lets not do it again

I strongly disagree with that approach but thats me and I dont think it would affect the team environment at all for this situation and besides at this stage you tell me how long he is unable to play?
It is very black and white approach and life has changed now to be more about welfare.
When have you known any club to isolate a player from the team environment when charged with something. They wont do that as much as you wish for it for mental health and duty of care reasons and at least he can train with the injured, and why cant he still be around the team in the gym, fitness sessions etc
Players train in different positions for a lot of pre-season to cover for injury etc. This is no different

JDB situation / charge was a bit more delicate especially around the all forms media circus that went with it

If the NRL stand him down for a lengthy period then consider some alternative game planning training options but keep him around the team.

 

[2218]

No, the premise of the debate isn’t that he is not guilty, as that is yet to be determined.

@BLM01 is right.

Disrepute?

I’m not sure any hard core fans would think his alleged crime brought the club or the NRL disrepute because we are reasonable and understand that neither sgi or the nrl would condone or be pleased with the events.

People with little engagement with the game may simplify it down to another bad footy player from a bad game doing bad things. That’s what they like to believe, it’s their model of the world.

Would anyone who cares about the game give it up over this? Would any of you guys walk from sgi over this? I really don’t think so.

I think he’s only brought himself into disrepute.

But whatever they do, they really should try to use it constructively and help prevent other players from flipping out if they can. If players ever feel prone to violent outbursts off field or find themselves angry, they might benefit from counselling etc.

Hang about and keep contributing. It’s good.

“indulgence” means “assuming you are right” which I am quite unsure of.

The Police charged him with a serious offence, and they think he’s guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. It’s not a half assed charge, it’s very serious.

They might have selected a less serious charge if they detected any issues. something easier to prove. Just stuck with the intimidation for example.

The property damage seems cut and dried from a distance anyway.


View attachment 69095
source: 9 news.

The cops dont charge because they believe hes guilty beyond reasonable doubt that is the jury/judges job. Once the cops have sufficient evidence to establish prima facie they consider charges. And in serious matters cops dont select charges just because they are easier to prove. If there is sufficient evidence to establish prima facie they will proceed. If the charge isnt strong they will include a lesser charge as a backup.

 

[Old Timer]

In the end it all comes down to what happens if the NRL invoke the "stand down" rule.

The powers to be came up with a half arsed plan to try to win back public support due to continued bad behaviour by players and the bad media attention it attracts.

The NRL have to come up with a scenario for when they apply the rule and that has to be to allow the club concerned to stand the player down until a final determination from the legal system, remove that salary from the cap, allow the club to sign an interim player or upgrade a player from within their current system.

The current ridiculous scenario means that you can have a player unable to play but was neither sin binned or sent off actually playing the game from which he derives his salary.

It would be interesting to know what would happen if a player caught up in this "stand down" situation had a personal TPA in place and the sponsor decided to pull the plug on the deal.

 

[The Word]

Yes I am like you, there is likely not enough info to act..yet. Public or socail media photos or evidence available etc. None of us know what the police have.
But for the NRL and their new policy I thought there was. For a charge that carries max 11+ yrs stand him down?. Why have they not yet if that is the case?
I still dont understand what the NRL Integrity unit of ex players etc do in these criminal situations outside the law and what they investigate and what takes them so long. To work out a suspension?. To cut the contract or not?

Yeah I thought the same BLM. 3 charges: recklessly causing grievous bodily harm (in company), destroy or damage property and intimidation.
A bit of googling told me the first charge carries upto 14 years on its own. Then a bit more googling told me it gets more complicated with the nature of the injuries and value of the damaged property taken into account in the maximum sentence, maybe these are still being assessed?
I'd say the integrity unit has handed it to their lawyers to assess the possible sentence, and they would have their own formal process and timescale, with Xmas and New Year could take longer.
I think he was only charged 8 days ago so I'm guessing it'll take a bit longer however I agree it should be fast-tracked.
I'd be surprised if the salary cap relief comes in time to do anything much before the season starts. Most squads will be settled by then.

 

[AyiosYiorgos]

Who is the 3rd Guy?

Who's on first...

 

[blacksafake]

Who's on first...

The best

 

[AyiosYiorgos]

No, the premise of the debate isn’t that he is not guilty, as that is yet to be determined.

@BLM01 is right.

Disrepute?

I’m not sure any hard core fans would think his alleged crime brought the club or the NRL disrepute because we are reasonable and understand that neither sgi or the nrl would condone or be pleased with the events.

People with little engagement with the game may simplify it down to another bad footy player from a bad game doing bad things. That’s what they like to believe, it’s their model of the world.

Would anyone who cares about the game give it up over this? Would any of you guys walk from sgi over this? I really don’t think so.

I think he’s only brought himself into disrepute.

But whatever they do, they really should try to use it constructively and help prevent other players from flipping out if they can. If players ever feel prone to violent outbursts off field or find themselves angry, they might benefit from counselling etc.

Hang about and keep contributing. It’s good.

“indulgence” means “assuming you are right” which I am quite unsure of.

The Police charged him with a serious offence, and they think he’s guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. It’s not a half assed charge, it’s very serious.

They might have selected a less serious charge if they detected any issues. something easier to prove. Just stuck with the intimidation for example.

The property damage seems cut and dried from a distance anyway.


View attachment 69095
source: 9 news.

doesn't look like the vehicle is parked on the nature strip.

 

[The Silverdale Phantom]

doesn't look like the vehicle is parked on the nature strip.

Mmmm.

 

[Mojo]

Under Australian law if a court or a tribunal finds that a term in a contract is unfair, then it becomes void, and therefore that term is no longer legally binding.
Again, in my opinion only, but if the club has asked him to sign a contract which allows them to cancel it on the basis of something that he didn't even do (remember this is only on the basis that he is found not guilty), then to most rational thinkers, as a 20 year old kid with no prior form, that would be considered to be unfair.
Therefore a civil court would insist the contract remain in place and the club would need to pay out the terms of the contract. Therefore a hole in the salary cap, hence my initial point about why clubs very rarely sack first offenders waiting for trial.
Best hope is an early and quick trial process and no fault stand down to kick in to assist with the salary cap.

Exactly. Nobody can contract away statute law. Equally, nobody, other than a court of law, can determine guilt or innocence. Therefore, nobody is entitled to take any action that could be considered punitive until the legal process has run its course. This is why the NRL policy is a ‘no fault standdown’. That’s it. Same as the DeBelin case.

And .. thankfully, we live in a culture that has a fair and reasonable legal system in which innocence or guilt is determined by a structured process of assessing all the factual evidence. If we didn’t have such a system JDB and his mate would be in jail right now. Gossip, innuendo, media reportage, hearsay and opinions generally don’t qualify as admissible evidence.

We all wish we could just lock up imbeciles and start tomorrow with a clean slate but to do so is only one step removed from lynchings in the public square.

Administration of justice requires patience and fairness.

 

[Old Timer]

Exactly. Nobody can contract away statute law. Equally, nobody, other than a court of law, can determine guilt or innocence. Therefore, nobody is entitled to take any action that could be considered punitive until the legal process has run its course. This is why the NRL policy is a ‘no fault standdown’. That’s it. Same as the DeBellin case.

And .. thankfully, we live in a culture that has a fair and reasonable legal system in which innocence or guilt is determined by a structured process of assessing all the factual evidence. If we didn’t have such a system JDB and his mate would be in jail right now. Gossip, innuendo, media reportage, hearsay and opinions generally don’t qualify as admissible evidence.

We all wish we could just lock up imbeciles and start tomorrow with a clean slate but to do so is only one step removed from lynchings in the public square.

Administration of justice requires patience and fairness.

Administration of justice requires the "truth" and that is not always forthcoming.

Alas sometimes the truth gets consigned to being no more than "Gossip, innuendo, media reportage, hearsay and opinions" because someone was able to lie and get away with it.

 

[Mojo]

Administration of justice requires the "truth" and that is not always forthcoming.

Alas sometimes the truth gets consigned to being no more than "Gossip, innuendo, media reportage, hearsay and opinions" because someone was able to lie and get away with it.

Very true. Or worse, trial by media causing court hearings to be aborted.

 

[denis preston]

So let me get this right, Amone still training with us occupying the No 6 role whilst Sullivan is training in other positions? Amones case is not a “ she said, he said “ like Debellins. There was actual witnesses & evidence of what he is charged with. Keep him away ASAP and NRL show some leadership.
f**k this has gotta be disruptive for the team.

 

[Sloth]

Did we sign Liddle before or after Jnr's incident? If before, maybe the club knew about the incident? Who am I kidding, the club has not shown any foresight over the last 10 years.

 

[BLM01]

So let me get this right, Amone still training with us occupying the No 6 role whilst Sullivan is training in other positions? Amones case is not a “ she said, he said “ like Debellins. There was actual witnesses & evidence of what he is charged with. Keep him away ASAP and NRL show some leadership.
f**k this has gotta be disruptive for the team.

How did you determine what is going on at training. ?
We believe we know what he has been charged with and I am sure the NRL will come out with something next week when they too return from leave
BTW the Dragons finished training last week around the time he was charged and bailed and not due back till next week so see what happens next week or so.
Disruptive..in your mind maybe not necessarily the teams. There is plenty of training Junior could do with the team without running all the plays