Junior Amone

[Dragon Blood]

How did you determine what is going on at training. ?
We believe we know what he has been charged with and I am sure the NRL will come out with something next week when they too return from leave
BTW the Dragons finished training last week around the time he was charged and bailed and not due back till next week so see what happens next week or so.
Disruptive..in your mind maybe not necessarily the teams. There is plenty of training Junior could do with the team without running all the plays

"All the plays"????
I thought we only one......five ineffective hitups then a kick to the oppositions fullback

 

[BLM01]

"All the plays"????
I thought we only one......five ineffective hitups then a kick to the oppositions fullback

True dat

 

[since77]

I thought we only one......five ineffective hitups then a kick to the oppositions fullback

Hey man that’s not fair. They do have one other play. 5 useless hit ups and then kick it dead for a 7 tackle set to the opposition.

 

[Mojo]

Hey man that’s not fair. They do have one other play. 5 useless hit ups and then kick it dead for a 7 tackle set to the opposition.

It takes practice though.

 

[possm]

Exactly. Nobody can contract away statute law. Equally, nobody, other than a court of law, can determine guilt or innocence. Therefore, nobody is entitled to take any action that could be considered punitive until the legal process has run its course. This is why the NRL policy is a ‘no fault standdown’. That’s it. Same as the DeBelin case.

And .. thankfully, we live in a culture that has a fair and reasonable legal system in which innocence or guilt is determined by a structured process of assessing all the factual evidence. If we didn’t have such a system JDB and his mate would be in jail right now. Gossip, innuendo, media reportage, hearsay and opinions generally don’t qualify as admissible evidence.

We all wish we could just lock up imbeciles and start tomorrow with a clean slate but to do so is only one step removed from lynchings in the public square.

Administration of justice requires patience and fairness.

From a Club's point of view, distractions can occur because of events that are beyond the control of the Club. Relations with a contracted player and potentially with fans and sponsors can be adversely affected even though the Club had nothing to do with the event.

The ARL wanting to limit damage to its reputation has developed the 'no fault stand down policy'. This policy largely meets the NRL's objective however, it places most of the load on the Club that the player is contracted with.

I say, have the NRL standard contract be a 3 party contract, where the Player, the Club, and the NRL are involved. Such a contract should include elements of the NRL's 'no-fault stand-down policy' and if an incident occurs requiring the NRL's 'no fault stan down policy' to be enforced, then the following procedures are to be followed:

1. Contract ownership is to effectively become a two-party contract between the Player and the NRL.

2. The Club is to have the remainder of the value of the contract removed as expenditure against their salary cap.

3. The Club is to be free to sign a replacement player.

4. The Club is to be indemnified against any legal proceedings in regard to this matter.

5. The NRL is to assume all responsibility for any legal proceedings that may be instigated by the player in regard to this matter.

 

[Mojo]

From a Club's point of view, distractions can occur because of events that are beyond the control of the Club. Relations with a contracted player and potentially with fans and sponsors can be adversely affected even though the Club had nothing to do with the event.

The ARL wanting to limit damage to its reputation has developed the 'no fault stand down policy'. This policy largely meets the NRL's objective however, it places most of the load on the Club that the player is contracted with.

I say, have the NRL standard contract be a 3 party contract, where the Player, the Club, and the NRL are involved. Such a contract should include elements of the NRL's 'no-fault stand-down policy' and if an incident occurs requiring the NRL's 'no fault stan down policy' to be enforced, then the following procedures are to be followed:

1. Contract ownership is to effectively become a two-party contract between the Player and the NRL.

2. The Club is to have the remainder of the value of the contract removed as expenditure against their salary cap.

3. The Club is to be free to sign a replacement player.

4. The Club is to be indemnified against any legal proceedings in regard to this matter.

5. The NRL is to assume all responsibility for any legal proceedings that may be instigated by the player in regard to this matter.

Sounds great except it effectively indemnifies the club and shifts all the risks to the NRL. IMO the responsibility should reside entirely with the player.

 

[Illusion]

If guilty piss him off .....

 

[Dragon David]

The questions that I ask are what triggered this alleged action by the Amones and the other unidentified guy? What made them do this? What did the tradies say to the alleged perpetrators that might have caused them to see red?

The games I have seen Junior play were without him anywhere near being over aggressive. He was developing really well at the Dragons and played for Tonga in the World Cup last year. Why did he lose his cool?

I cannot see Junior's future being in league for quite a while if the evidence available points towards him being stood down.

 

[Budpower]

this! no one does such extreme stuff unless something was done to them

 

[Old Timer]

this! no one does such extreme stuff unless something was done to them

The questions that I ask are what triggered this alleged action by the Amones and the other unidentified guy? What made them do this? What did the tradies say to the alleged perpetrators that might have caused them to see red?

The games I have seen Junior play were without him anywhere near being over aggressive. He was developing really well at the Dragons and played for Tonga in the World Cup last year. Why did he lose his cool?

I cannot see Junior's future being in league for quite a while if the evidence available points towards him being stood down.

Criminal behaviour is exactly that and does not need to have a catalyst for people to do it.

I feel that some posters are trying to find some wriggle room for Amone’s actions.

I just don’t get the theory “Oh the other people must have said something or done something.”

Even if it was the case since when does that mean that Amone & Co can then legally commit a criminal offence?

There is no justification for what they did, it is criminal full stop.

 

[twinkletoes]

this! no one does such extreme stuff unless something was done to them

Irrelevant… he’s just a scumbag low life

 

[Old Timer]

Irrelevant… he’s just a scumbag low life

Gang culture and mentality.

I wonder if our sympathetic posters think Roger Rogerson & Chopper Read weren't low life scum bags and that they must have had something done to them for them to be so extreme?

 

[possm]

Sounds great except it effectively indemnifies the club and shifts all the risks to the NRL. IMO the responsibility should reside entirely with the player.

The NRL introduced a policy that goes against a person being innocent until proven guilty. An audacious approach that could prove costly for Clubs. There is no doubt in my mind that the NRL should take responsibility for this action.

 

[Dragonssupporter]

I strongly disagree with that approach but thats me and I dont think it would affect the team environment at all for this situation and besides at this stage you tell me how long he is unable to play?
It is very black and white approach and life has changed now to be more about welfare.
When have you known any club to isolate a player from the team environment when charged with something. They wont do that as much as you wish for it for mental health and duty of care reasons and at least he can train with the injured, and why cant he still be around the team in the gym, fitness sessions etc
Players train in different positions for a lot of pre-season to cover for injury etc. This is no different

JDB situation / charge was a bit more delicate especially around the all forms media circus that went with it

If the NRL stand him down for a lengthy period then consider some alternative game planning training options but keep him around the team.

Im afraid i have to disagree as i said. Keeping his mental health in mind while disregarding everyone elses is not common practice nor should it be. In this case the evidence is there for all to see, and while not wishing to prejudice anything, I think we can relatively guess what the outcome will be. What i was more making the point about was that the JDB case definately had an effect on the team and caused quite a split to occur because he was allowed to keep training with them. I dont want the same thing to happen again. Secondly this trial could take 12 months to get to court-we dont know. Hard decisions have to be made-this is a professional sports unit and no one member is above the rest. If this means he trains with another squad then so be it.But he musnt be allowed to occupy a spot we know he wont be able to play in
Just my 2 bobs worth, but i also respect your opinion BLM

 

[twinkletoes]

this! no one does such extreme stuff unless something was done to them

Irrelevant… he’s just a scumbag low

 

[Mojo]

The NRL introduced a policy that goes against a person being innocent until proven guilty. An audacious approach that could prove costly for Clubs. There is no doubt in my mind that the NRL should take responsibility for this action.

I’m very conscious of not wading into legal debates that I’m not qualified for, but …

There are two other considerations (ie; in addition to the actual legal process): 1. the relevant clauses of the employment contract, and 2. the application of procedural fairness (and possible compensation) in the decisions regarding continuation of, or termination of, employment.

I think it is reasonable for a player to be stood down, without pay, if charged with a serious criminal offence, pending a decision (by the courts) of guilt or innocence. If found guilty, then terminate their services. If found innocent (or not found guilty - ie, charges dropped) then reinstate them - and the NRL should pay the back pay for the period of suspension.

Serious criminal charges aren’t brought without valid reasons. If a player is charged with criminal offence(s) then they should bear responsibility. After all, all they have to do is to not engage in actual or potential serious criminal activities. It’s not an unreasonable thing to expect. Especially since, in my opinion, given the money and priveleges they are provided with while plying their trade, they should fully be expected to be role models in both sport and in their general lifestyles.

Can an Employee facing criminal charges be terminated? ~ Sloan Law

We can thank the “bad boys” of Rugby League for putting this thorny issue back under the spotlight. The St George Illawarra Rugby League club came under scrutiny recently for suspending star player Jack de Belin after he was charged with a serious criminal offence. Some may ask, why didn’t the...

sloanlaw.com.au

 

[Dragon David]

Criminal behaviour is exactly that and does not need to have a catalyst for people to do it.

I feel that some posters are trying to find some wriggle room for Amone’s actions.

I just don’t get the theory “Oh the other people must have said something or done something.”

Even if it was the case since when does that mean that Amone & Co can then legally commit a criminal offence?

There is no justification for what they did, it is criminal full stop.

I wasn't trying to locate any wriggle room for Juniors actions OT. As far as I am concerned the actions taken by the Amones and other person involved, given the evidence, are definitely of criminal nature and behavior which must be deplored.

My concerns are what motivated these actions? How easy is it for many people to just lose their blocks and forgetting what is right and wrong and going headlong like a bull at a red flag and ignoring the consequences of their actions. Are they just plain idiots with poor brain function and hotheads?

I am at a loss as to why this young and good prospects fellow just decided to throw it all away without any justification for his actions?

 

[Old Timer]

I wasn't trying to locate any wriggle room for Juniors actions OT. As far as I am concerned the actions taken by the Amones and other person involved, given the evidence, are definitely of criminal nature and behavior which must be deplored.

My concerns are what motivated these actions? How easy is it for many people to just lose their blocks and forgetting what is right and wrong and going headlong like a bull at a red flag and ignoring the consequences of their actions. Are they just plain idiots with poor brain function and hotheads?

I am at a loss as to why this young and good prospects fellow just decided to throw it all away without any justification for his actions?

Blood is thicker than water as simple as that.

Daddy says do this do that and it is and that’s the end of it.

 

[BLM01]

Im afraid i have to disagree as i said. Keeping his mental health in mind while disregarding everyone elses is not common practice nor should it be. In this case the evidence is there for all to see, and while not wishing to prejudice anything, I think we can relatively guess what the outcome will be. What i was more making the point about was that the JDB case definately had an effect on the team and caused quite a split to occur because he was allowed to keep training with them. I dont want the same thing to happen again. Secondly this trial could take 12 months to get to court-we dont know. Hard decisions have to be made-this is a professional sports unit and no one member is above the rest. If this means he trains with another squad then so be it.But he musnt be allowed to occupy a spot we know he wont be able to play in
Just my 2 bobs worth, but i also respect your opinion BLM

No worries all good. You have yours and I have mine. My thoughts are to this post are
1. I think you are overstating other players being affected and disregarded with mental health issue over this with him being around. They deal with it and just get on with the job. Players come and go within teams anyway it is a business in this instance anyway.
2. Comparing it to JDB is chalk and cheese in regards to sensitive and delicate issues involving a female and aired public / social media outrage and potential split those charges caused between people.
3. How do you know he still wont be able to occupy his spot yet. No-one does. No decision has been made yet nor if it is going to trial.

What you mostly say is relevant when we know more not assume.
Always happy to debate and disagree @Dragonssupporter

 

[BLM01]

Blood is thicker than water as simple as that.

Daddy says do this do that and it is and that’s the end of it.

To a point you are partly correct OT. Family loyalties are instilled.