KICKING!!!

[blacktip-reefy]

Further to the Kimmorley Goal kicking problem.
I was under the impression that the Sharks where his kicking career started. How wrong I was.
He started kicking all thge way back at the Mariners & continued with Melbourne.
His best year ever was his firt year at the Sharks @ just under 69%
His worst was at the Mariners where he kicked like 4 goals from 15 attempts.

He improved at Melbourne where he broke the 50% mark for 2 years straight.

His 7 year career average is around 64%

 

[MilitaryShark]

Does this stat make El Masri seem like a better buy with each game that passes ?
Does anyone know what sort of money he is after ?
Are most of our other wingers off contract this year or not ?

 

[Sharkies all the Way]

Reefy your stats look very professional but the fact remains, Kimmorley over recent weeks with help from kicking specialists finally has improved greatly and bar on game in which numerous factors were against him, the most obvious being the location of the kicks (sideline) he has kicked well.

 

[blacktip-reefy]

they are professional. Very. Because I didn't do them.

He is a 7 year career 64% kicker, currently kicking at 65%.

So your right, he is getting better.

 

[Sharkies all the Way]

Since you can find so many stats, how bout you calculate the avg successful kicking percetage of every kicker in the NRL? I think that will truly reflect whether Kimmorley is below par in comparison to other kickers in the comp, not just comparing him toaces like El Masri.

 

[blacktip-reefy]

I'm not comparing him to El Masri.

& here

Hazem El Masri 30/33 90.91%
Kurt Gidley 8/9 88.89%
Sione Faumuina 20/23 86.96%
Daniel Abraham 20/24 83.33%
Craig Fitzgibbon 17/21 80.95%
Chris Walker 8/10 80.00%
Michael De Vere 40/50 80.00%
Andrew Walker 21/27 77.78%
Josh Hannay 23/31 74.19%
Ryan Girdler PN 20/27 74.07%
Mathew Head 13/18 72.22%
Mark Riddell 18/26 69.23%

Luke Burt 26/39 66.67%
Brett Kimmorley 26/39 66.67%
Cameron Smith 27/41 65.85%
Brett Hodgson 19/29 65.52%
Clinton Schifcofske 22/36 61.11%
Preston Campbell 9/15 60.00%

 

[Sharkies all the Way]

Thnx for that. Some points from that, I believe Fitzgibbon, Faumuina, Head, Gidley, Campbell, Walker and some others are irrelevant as Kimmorely has nearly had double the amount of attempts on goal, and obviously the more you kick the lower the percentage success rate goes. Taking these players out of the equation due to this, Kimmorley is in the 60% bracket in which 7/11 other players (players of similar attempts at goal) are in. It is also noticable that kickers such as Riddel, Burt, Schifcofske and Smith have simmilar and in some cases worse percentages than Kimmorley, these players many would regard as seasoned kickers unlike Kimmorely for the time being.

So, from these stats, I do believe Kimmorely isnt the best kicker, and yes could improve greatly, but he seems to be about avg in the comp. Furthermore, it must be considered that his recent improvements in kicking (which started at around rd 6) wont have a major impact on his kicking percentage until more games are played. Simply, Stats shouldnt always be used as gospel, they can be quite deceiving at times especially in this case where Kimmorley has had a complete turn around in Kicking form.

 

[Anonymous]

Stats or not - you only have to look at his goalkicking to see he's not up to scratch!

 

[blacktip-reefy]

Thnx for that. Some points from that, I believe Fitzgibbon, Faumuina, Head, Gidley, Campbell, Walker and some others are irrelevant as Kimmorely has nearly had double the amount of attempts on goal, and obviously the more you kick the lower the percentage success rate goes. Taking these players out of the equation due to this, Kimmorley is in the 60% bracket in which 7/11 other players (players of similar attempts at goal) are in.

What you don't see is that most of these kickers are also from single mum families & two were refugees & did not see grass until they were 14 years old.

So, from these stats, I do believe Kimmorely isnt the best kicker, and yes could improve greatly, but he seems to be about avg in the comp.

No he is ranked where he is. 5th worst

Furthermore, it must be considered that his recent improvements in kicking (which started at around rd 6) wont have a major impact on his kicking percentage until more games are played.

Well you have just contradicted yourself from your first point.
Do you miss more or land more the more you kick?

Simply, Stats shouldnt always be used as gospel, they can be quite deceiving at times

In pretty much everything except kicking. The only area that can be improved in kicking stats is difficulty rating.

especially in this case where Kimmorley has had a complete turn around in Kicking form.

You are the only person on the planet that believes this.
He is a 64% career kicker & BTW he is not receiving any help at all this year. The kicking was general feild kicking.

Besides the fact you have little understanding in the feild of probability & statistics I will leave you alone now.
As far as can be seen here, BK could miss 5 from 5 this week, & you would still be carrying his torch.
AFYI, if he lands 5 from 5, he will be a 68% kicker.

 

[millersnose]

as you know reefy i am concerned about the sharks ability to kick goals also

but just one point - is it your contention that brett kimmorley:

a. dictates to the sharks who the goal kicker will be

b. does this at the expense of a better goal kicker in the squad

i am working on the assumption that the coaching staff do not have a better option

 

[Sharkies all the Way]

Reefy, we will see how he goes today. However he goes will prove out of us who is right.

 

[RICHO]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again.

NODDY SEEMS TO BE THE BEST OPTION WE HAVE RIGHT NOW.

Unfortunate, but true.

 

[Sharkies all the Way]

Here are some of his best success gates in the last 8 games (not sure if they 100% right as site didnt show penatly attempts) :

Sharks v Bulldogs : 4/4
Sharks v Souths : 2/2
Sharks v Cowboys : 1/2
Sharks v Raiders : 7/7
Sharks v Dragons : 2/2

So out of the last 8 games, in 5 of them he has went well.

 

[blacktip-reefy]

Reefy, we will see how he goes today. However he goes will prove out of us who is right.

No it won't. This is where you don't understand the basic principals.
Kimmorley has always had games where he kicks 5/5.
He has also had games where he has kicked 1/5.
this makes him a career 60% kicker. It is that simple. When you do higher maths levels & more work on probablility, you will understand better.
The fact that kimmorley is kicking better or not, is an anecdotal opinion. Yours is that he is kicking better. Mine is that he is not. He is kicking the same as he always has. he has always been a straight kicker, it's just that they miss, 40% of the time. & there lies the problem that will never be improved on to a degree of 20%, which would make the target of 80-85% & then a back up kicker of 75%. Just like the winning clubs, now have.
For the Sharks to succeed to the degree that we want them to, kicking has to be addressed. We are better off letting a young bloke who kicks at 60% or even less, but has a natural technique, develop, rather than trying to develop BK, who will not improve to the required level.

& no Millers, I am not saying that about BK.
In fact, I will go as far as to say, that after Juner 30, a kicker will be priority number 1 for Sludge.

& as for other options, well I'm surethere are forummers here who have played locally with some of the squad who would have seen somebody kicking. Geez I can't beleive an entire club has 1(sort of) kicker!!

 

[Sharkies all the Way]

So Reefy all these players should be dropped as kickers? They aernt at 85% are they.

Andrew Walker 21/27 77.78%
Josh Hannay 23/31 74.19%
Ryan Girdler PN 20/27 74.07%
Mathew Head 13/18 72.22%
Mark Riddell 18/26 69.23%
Luke Burt 26/39 66.67%
Brett Kimmorley 26/39 66.67%
Cameron Smith 27/41 65.85%
Brett Hodgson 19/29 65.52%
Clinton Schifcofske 22/36 61.11%
Preston Campbell 9/15 60.00%

I believe today will tell who is right and wrong, I have said that he is good after getting help and those stats I gave showed that, he is kicking better. The Storm game had numerous factors against him and even if these aint considered most kickers have their bad days. If he goes today that will mean he is now having 6/9 games in which is kicking well, thats good enough for me expecially when we have no others kickers available.

 

[blacktip-reefy]

Sorry, but you are making yourself out to be quite thick.

POINT 1. It is obvious the teams that are losing, are also having kicking problems. The most noticeable being shiff.
As for the kickers well heres their career stats which is the most telling
Burt 72%
Campbell (who is back up) 69.5%
Riddell 76%
Hodgson 72%
C.Smiths 1st year @ already higher than kimmorley at 69%
Shiff @73%

Point 2
Kimmorley has not had any kicking tuition since last year.

point 3
How do you know there are no others available?

Point 4
85% should be a realistic target. 75% will keep you competitive.

Point 4
Today will prove nothing. because at then end of the year, he still will have missed 40% of his kicks.
DO YOU UNDERSTAND ANYTHING ABOUT STATS & PROBABILITY??????


:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Sharkies all the Way]

Ok...... Keep on focusing on stats, are you one of these people who just relatesto statisitcs and nothing else?

"It is obvious the teams that are losing, are also having kicking problems"

* Riddel - Dragons are losing? This year his percentage is in the 60% range, yet they are winning and were/stil are a hot favourite
* Girdler - He isnt at the 85% target, however they still seem to be winning
* Hodgson - Below Kimmorleys percentage yet the Tigers are going well
* Smith - Melbourne until recently were regarded as a Premiership contender, he is below Kimmorely in succes rate

Interesting. And dont plug more stats out, I am and you were until recently going off recent stats, dont start getting overall career stats out, we are seeing the best kickers this year not in previous years and the connection to the success of the team this year.

Kimmorley hasnt had any help? I believe he has had a soccer player in helping with his kicking at goal and an AFL player in to help with general kicking. This is help isnt it? And you wil notice that co-inciding with this he has improved. And as has been mentioned before, you say that good teams are the ones with good kickers and that this is why they are going well. I dont think so, good teams (ie Bronco's etc) usually score tries closer to the goals, so yes they will have a better success rate. On the other hand, we seem to score many out wide, this would make it harder for Kimmorley wouldnt it?

 

[warren]

* Hodgson - Below Kimmorleys percentage yet the Tigers are going well

:lol: did you watch their last game?

 

[Sharkies all the Way]

It was against Roosters, even Bulldogs got thrashed by a bigger margin 25 - 0.

 

[blacktip-reefy]

You are using your opinion, together with stats, that you choose to see or not see, whether it serves your argument. It's called flawed analysis or anecdotal evidence. Both are as reliable as a Holden Camira.
By the way, Riddell looks like he is second string kicker now.
& I know you don't want any more stats pulled out, because they prove you wrong every time.
If you are so sure about your flawed theory, put some money on Kimmorley to break 70% tonight. I'm sure that a grand on that would pay handsomely.


:lol: :lol: