Kingston's offer to pay to play

[Suitman]

Can't we arrange some sort of 3rd party agreement, or maybe one of Parra's sponsors could employ him on a de-facto type salary arrangement??
Surely there is a way around this?

Suity

 

[yy_cheng]

Important point that everyone has seemed to have glossed over. Anthony Mitchell is supposedly a rare talent. We already struggling to put 6 into the backline, do we have to pick 3 hookers as well? Unfortunately blondies and redheads usually get picked over the black haired

'84 you don't get it either.

Casper posts says it's about LOVE. We shouldn't worry about the salary cap and pick and choose players as LOVE will get us there.

If Anthony, Todd, Kevvy, Robbo loves this club, why should we prevent them from playing for us?

 

[84 Baby]

'84 you don't get it either.

Casper posts says it's about LOVE. We shouldn't worry about the salary cap and pick and choose players as LOVE will get us there.

If Anthony, Todd, Kevvy, Robbo loves this club, why should we prevent them from playing for us?

We're not preventing them from playing for us. The salary cap is. Thus my suggestion of the NBA type tax. The current system is a joke. It punishes the low end players for having good seasons and essentially punishes clubs for having injuries. If K Keating isn't injured we don't pay as much in match payments to Robson or Kingston.

If I were to speak like Casper, the salary cap is a cold hearted, uncaring, unloving machine which is seeking to sap all the love between players and clubs. The only way to destroy the machine is to believe in our love for players like Kingston and fight to convert the machine to believe in love as well

 

[born an eel]

Can't we arrange some sort of 3rd party agreement, or maybe one of Parra's sponsors could employ him on a de-facto type salary arrangement??
Surely there is a way around this?

Suity

it's not the money it's the cap space. The only way he can fit in is to play for nothing, which you can't do (minimum contract)

 

[strider]

BUt then wouldn't that player's incentives count towards the salary cap of his new team?
That would also make other teams look the other way.

yeah i think that is the issue the players association have with the cap rules - the player is f'ed unless a team has cap room to take on the player's previous yrs incentives ..... which for lesser players is hard

 

[oldmancraigy]

you see, I really don't think this is correct :-s ... I don't think it matters if he is on incentives next year or not in 2010 - his incentives from this year will count regardless

if it was only an issue if he got an incentive deal next year then I can't see tehre would be any problem at all - he said he's willing to not get incentive payments this year to stay, why wouldn't he just not get them next year and have a base $50K and it all be sweet???

I think if he is on the books next year, incentives or not, his incentives from this year will count to our 2010 cap

No - incentives from this year don't count towarrds next - at least not according to the NRL salary cap information?

The number of games played in the previous season is used to calculate the amount of 'incentive based salary' that is 'charged' to a teams salary cap for the current season.

Here it is straight from the salary cap auditor himself

Win bonuses & appearance fees – Payments for appearing in or winning a game are calculated based on the number of NRL games the player played in the prior year multiplied by any applicable bonuses. For win bonuses, the calculation is capped at 13 wins .

http://www.nrl.com/nrlhq/referencecentre/salarycap/tabid/10434/default.aspx

 

[oldmancraigy]

he can not stay for anything under $107k (using your numbers), $50K salary (2010) no incentives plus this year (2009) bonus $57k

NO

According to my numbers (and the NRL's calculations), if he signed on for next year to a 'flat rate' contract (ie - no appearance bonuses), then we could sign him for $50k, and he'd be paid $50k.

MATCH PAYMENTS DO NOT COUNT TOWARDS THE FOLLOWING YEARS SALARY.


The ONLY thing that carries forward are 'performance bonuses' - so things like SoO - if a player is told they will receive $20k if selected for SoO this year, then the cap assumes he will be picked next year as well (and he counts $20k more towards the cap). However the $20k doesn't count in the current year.
Performance bonuses are weird and should be steered VERY clear of by any savvy CEO.

 

[strider]

No - incentives from this year don't count towarrds next - at least not according to the NRL salary cap information?

The number of games played in the previous season is used to calculate the amount of 'incentive based salary' that is 'charged' to a teams salary cap for the current season.

Here it is straight from the salary cap auditor himself

Win bonuses & appearance fees – Payments for appearing in or winning a game are calculated based on the number of NRL games the player played in the prior year multiplied by any applicable bonuses. For win bonuses, the calculation is capped at 13 wins .

http://www.nrl.com/nrlhq/referencecentre/salarycap/tabid/10434/default.aspx

"multiplied by any applicable bonuses" ..... well that doesn't really indicate if the bonuses are the previous season amount or current season amount

 

[born an eel]

so we could sign on Lote Tuqiri for $50K with an appearance fee of $300K for the first game and $20K for every other game and not breach our salary cap for next year?

 

[oldmancraigy]

so we could sign on Lote Tuqiri for $50K with an appearance fee of $300K for the first game and $20K for every other game and not breach our salary cap for next year?

Yes - if it were legal to pay a player that much as an appearance fee.

Pretty sure it's either $3k or $4k as a maximum 'appearance fee'.

Just google up the newspaper reports for big Dells first season with the Dragons and you'll see them talking about how much he can earn and how much he'll count against the cap.

The benefit is there for us too - you can guarantee that an amount of Tahu's salary is 'appearance fees' (mind you, with his history, I'm sure his agent won't be counting on 24 games in the season...) - so we'll get Tahu for, say, $100k + $4k per game + give him a 'marquee sponsorship' of $50k [arranged by the club] - and he'll get paid between $150 and 250k for next season. And it'll only count $100k against the cap (no appearances in the previous season).

The season after I'd bet 100% that he's back onto a 'flat rate' contract (300k was the number I heard bandied about for seasons 2 and 3). And the 'marquee' sponsorship deal would revert back to Hindy (who takes a paycut from 400k down to 250k in 2011 - but 250k + the marquee sponsorship = 300k).

It's a 1-year rort in the cap at the moment - but it certainly helps injured players to find a new club.

 

[oldmancraigy]

"multiplied by any applicable bonuses" ..... well that doesn't really indicate if the bonuses are the previous season amount or current season amount

'applicable bonuses' are like if the club offers the player $20k bonus if they play for NSW. that counts against the cap.

They have an example on the link - but it's just what I've been saying here.

The paper report on Kingston is wrong - but more significant is that Matty Elliott didn't seem to know the system from the comments he made :shock:

 

[Casper The Ghost]

lol at how this has gone...hey casper r u going to the game?

NO, the opportunity was not there to be taken. I would still love to go but have planned to watch it at home with the family who are ALL NOW devout Eels fans..... let me tell you, I put quite a bit of effort in selling a "pitch", lots of pitches.... Jarryd this, Inu that, Burty this, Grothe that, Robbo this, Mortimer that, DA this, PO that, etc, etc to inspire Casper's family to join the Eels bandwagon. From 1962/1963 until a few months ago it was just Casper.... now its all the family.:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

 

[Casper The Ghost]

'84 you don't get it either.

Casper posts says it's about LOVE. We shouldn't worry about the salary cap and pick and choose players as LOVE will get us there.

If Anthony, Todd, Kevvy, Robbo loves this club, why should we prevent them from playing for us?

LOVE COMES WITH "FULL RESPONSIBILITY"
OTHERWISE IT AIN'T LOVE
Casper The Ghost

 

[Casper The Ghost]

We're not preventing them from playing for us. The salary cap is. Thus my suggestion of the NBA type tax. The current system is a joke. It punishes the low end players for having good seasons and essentially punishes clubs for having injuries. If K Keating isn't injured we don't pay as much in match payments to Robson or Kingston.

If I were to speak like Casper, the salary cap is a cold hearted, uncaring, unloving machine which is seeking to sap all the love between players and clubs. The only way to destroy the machine is to believe in our love for players like Kingston and fight to convert the machine to believe in love as well[/QUOTE]

THIS IS LOVE IN ACTION
TAKING "FULL RESPONSIBILITY"
FOR WHAT WE LOVE.
WHAT WE LOVE IS A DREAM
AND DREAMS REQUIRE OUR FULL RESPONSIBILITY
FOR THEM TO BE FULFILLED.
Casper The Ghost

 

[Casper The Ghost]

yeah i think that is the issue the players association have with the cap rules - the player is f'ed unless a team has cap room to take on the player's previous yrs incentives ..... which for lesser players is hard

This is SOCIALISM (COMMUNISM) disguised (like a pretty lolly wrapper full of nasty poisons) as "Free Enterprise", "Capitalism" and "DEMOCRACY".

 

[AgaveEel]

Great To see there are still some players who is not all about the money. Kinga your a legend and a top bloke good on ya!!

 

[Blue Bagger 66]

I've said it before and I'll keep saying it: Kinga is a class act both on and off the field... he was shafted at the sharks and sadly now it looks like he'll be on the receiving end again (although Parra are doing their best to keep him and I commend the club for that). If anybody is over the attitude of some NRL footballers who think their sh*t don't stink then I suggest you have a chat to Kinga... he is as grounded an individual as you will ever meet - he will always take time to chat to anybody about football & life in general and takes as much interest in your family as he does his own. I first met him when he was trying to crack it at the sharks and he was playing with Newtown and some 70 odd NRL games later he is still the same guy... no ego, no holier than thou attitude, just a genuine champion bloke. He helped out a mate and I last year coach an under 16/B footy team and he went above and beyond our expectations and the kids got a great deal from him. I sopke to him from Malaysia last Saturday after the Bulldogs game and he is focused on going out a winner if this is to be his last game in the NRL tomorrow... and I say what a way to go out... sure he won't get the fanfare that the likes of Webke and Menzies got when they went out winners but personally from an aussie battlers point of view I can't think of many more champion blokes that deserve a grand final winners medal like Kinga does. GO KINGA - GO EELS!

 

[murraymob]

you see, I really don't think this is correct :-s ... I don't think it matters if he is on incentives next year or not in 2010 - his incentives from this year will count regardless

if it was only an issue if he got an incentive deal next year then I can't see tehre would be any problem at all - he said he's willing to not get incentive payments this year to stay, why wouldn't he just not get them next year and have a base $50K and it all be sweet???

I think if he is on the books next year, incentives or not, his incentives from this year will count to our 2010 cap

strider you are right any incentives this year count to next year regardless of if you get them or not.We have the same problem at penrith with frank pulutua he earns 50k but is valued at 110k next year due to incentives this year

 

[strider]

i'll give kinga some fanfare! ... i think kinga is great!

 

[Eelementary]

What about some sort of coaching role?