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Knights knock back $10m Tinkler offer

macavity

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20,636
given he runs a public company im sure fitzgibbon knows a bit about disclosure

and that you think he has nasty ulterior motives is not evidence of such mac

You know full well I am not at liberty to broadcast all I know.
 

perverse

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26,677
any half decent organisation would have all this taken into account

if indeed we are on the cusp of financial paradise then it is obvious private ownership is unnecessary

i dont think anyone really believes this is true

the business model is poor. we cant expect to survice by the holy grail tv money
i wouldn't claim financial paradise, that's putting words in my mouth. continued financially viability... or even perhaps stability... was more what i was going for. i don't expect that in 3 years we'll be investing massive overs into our operations all of a sudden or anything. that will require private investment in one form or another, no doubt... which i'm not against at all. just saying that given the landscape for the sport over the next couple of years, $10mill for full control seems even more absurd. i don't think it's unreasonable for the knights - on the behalf of the community - to ensure on paper that the investment we assume would come from Tinkler actually does come. it's not that i don't trust the man to do good by the town and the people, but you're silly if you don't get that on paper in this day and age. what happens if Tinkler has a heart attack in a year and his wife inherits the reigns or some such? you just never know.
 
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B-dos

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28,165
You know full well I am not at liberty to broadcast all I know.

putting aside for a moment your grudge against the man

his article in the herald today was well written and put a good case for the tinker deal

i assume you dont agree? why?
 

B-dos

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Messages
28,165
i wouldn't claim financial paradise, that's putting words in my mouth. continued financially viability... or even perhaps stability... was more what i was going for. i don't expect that in 3 years we'll be investing massive overs into our operations all of a sudden or anything. that will require private investment in one form or another, no doubt... which i'm not against at all. just saying that given the landscape for the sport over the next couple of years, $10mill for full control seems even more absurd.

well the good news is the not for profit nature means any financial benefits we stand to gain are invested into the club and the juniors etc

i fail to see how on earth this is a bad thing or what we have to lose

i don't think it's unreasonable for the knights - on the behalf of the community - to ensure on paper that the investment we assume would come from Tinkler actually does come. it's not that i don't trust the man to do good by the town and the people, but you're silly if you don't get that on paper in this day and age. what happens if Tinkler has a heart attack in a year and his wife inherits the reigns or some such? you just never know.

i agree however im quite sure the negotiations would be ongoing if all we needed to do was clear up some minor details of the offer,

tew's insistence that he needs assurances on the ongoing revenue is crazy. its as if he thinks the club will make more money without tinkler than with him
 

perverse

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26,677
tew's insistence that he needs assurances on the ongoing revenue is crazy. its as if he thinks the club will make more money without tinkler than with him
i don't really disagree with you, which is why i wish this whole process was far more transparent and accessable to the average novocastrian than a bit of he said/she said in the local rag.

we're only going off a couple of quotes in paper ffs. it's just not good enough for mine. who knows what is actually being said and discussed behind closed doors. when it all comes down to it - i don't trust our administration to keep us informed in the slightest, and i don't trust them not to make a decision on a whim, either. i don't expect to be kept completely in the loop regarding all business decisions pertaining to the knights, but when it comes to ownership of our club, i would expect the public to be well informed at all times and have some sort of say in the matter.
 
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B-dos

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28,165
i don't really disagree with you, which is why i wish this whole process was far more transparent and accessable to the average novocastrian than a bit of he said/she said in the local rag.

we're only going off a couple of quotes in paper ffs. it's just not good enough for mine. who knows what is actually being said and discussed behind closed doors. when it all comes down to it - i don't trust our administration to keep us informed in the slightest, and i don't trust them not to make a decision on a whim, either. i don't expect to be kept completely in the loop regarding all business decisions pertaining to the knights, but when it comes to ownership of our club, i would expect the public to be well informed at all times and have some sort of say in the matter.

true perverse

its ironic then that mac talks of full disclosure when many here are accusing the knights of a disturbing lack of it
 

macavity

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20,636
true perverse

its ironic then that mac talks of full disclosure when many here are accusing the knights of a disturbing lack of it

I have put the argument for disclosure forward - in all honesty I think the main problem is there isn't a trustworthy media outlet to handle that disclosure in a fair and balanced way.

There are only so many times the Herald can spit in your face before you put your guard up - can't really blame them.

On the other hand, as put forward by b-dos - what if what the Knights have to say pisses off Tinkler? Do we have those discussions in the public arena, or in a private forum? Perhaps there is a reason for the softly softly approach.

I wish we could just fast forward a few weeks until when he is back - surely progress will be made then.
 

B-dos

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Messages
28,165
i agree the negotiations certainly shouldnt be played out in the media

however im sure the clubs hopes for a positive outcome could be more clearly communicated so that the supporters can take some reassurance
 

macavity

Referee
Messages
20,636
my submission was that a "vision" needs to be communicated.

something along the lines of what I enunciated earlier - an optimum outcome. What they really want.

there is only so long that "we are looking at it" will cut it.
 

roopy

Referee
Messages
27,980
Interesting in the paper today they say the 10 million is the maximum he intends to spend, and no minimum is given - so technically we could have an amazing 10 years making lots of money and he could actually take money out of the Knights to subsidize the Jets - obviously not his intention at the start, but there is nothing to stop it working that way if we sign over control.
 

B-dos

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Messages
28,165
Interesting in the paper today they say the 10 million is the maximum he intends to spend, and no minimum is given - so technically we could have an amazing 10 years making lots of money and he could actually take money out of the Knights to subsidize the Jets - obviously not his intention at the start, but there is nothing to stop it working that way if we sign over control.

tinkler is a knights fan not a jets fan

when he saved the jets he said he has barely watched a game of football/soccer in his life

there is no chance he will build the jets up at the expense of the knights. no chance
 

Elephant Hunter

Juniors
Messages
185
tinkler is a knights fan not a jets fan

when he saved the jets he said he has barely watched a game of football/soccer in his life

there is no chance he will build the jets up at the expense of the knights. no chance

You seem to be making a lot of statements about his intent and what Mr Tinkler will or will not do. This is all heresay and your interpretation unless you are either:

A) Mr Tinkler
B) Been told these statements directly by Mr Tinkler.

As was stated earlier, you can only sell the club once so making a knee-jerk reaction based on the publicly leaked information from one side of the negotiations would be very silly.

Take a step back and re-read all the statements that have been made in this thread and see some of the huge assumptions that you and some others have made about the intentions of the Tinkler Group.

I am sure they are not the evil empire but I would think the assurances given so far are very thin to sell the house on.

Secondly everyone keeps raving about what he has done with the Jets. Well what has he done. Arranged one game with an over-rated club and player. The club is still on the bottom of the table and travelling very poorly.
 

Fein

First Grade
Messages
5,249
Any Knights supporter that is against Tinkler taking over needs to consider where you are now and where you could be.

From an outsiders point of view, The Knights seem to be in much better shape than when Rusty put his management rights proposal to Souths.

Use our model which enshrines the important things and you will find most will be happy.

What you cannot dismiss is the bloke loves The Knights and he's worth about 5 times what Crowe is worth.

Having seen the machinations of how Souths pulled it off from the inside, surely The Knights can do it.
 

Serc

First Grade
Messages
6,902
Your club needs you to get ball rolling
BY ROBERT DILLON
11 Nov, 2010 04:00 AM

The Newcastle Knights' internet home page features a prominent advertisement proclaiming "The Knights need you in 2011".
And of all the people the Knights "need" on their side - not just next year but for the long haul as well - Nathan Tinkler would surely be at the head of the queue.
For two years or more, Mr Tinkler has been widely touted as the man to bankroll the eternally impoverished NRL club into a bright, prosperous new era.
Born and raised in the Hunter Valley, the mining and thoroughbred-racing tycoon has been a Knights fan since childhood.
With a fortune estimated to exceed $600 million, he could presumably finance the club he loves with the loose change he shakes from his wallet after a day at the races.
Mr Tinkler has been a generous benefactor for the Knights in recent years, providing a six-figure shorts sponsorship in 2008 and a secret loan of $500,000 in the same year that still has not been repaid.
And since assuming ownership of the Newcastle Jets on September 22, money has been no object as Mr Tinkler and his advisers embarked on a makeover that has captured the imagination of the Novocastrian public and has left every A-League club envious.
It appeared a matter of time before Mr Tinkler moved to add the Knights to his portfolio.
And sure enough, after months of behind-the-scenes negotiations, he tabled his bid on Monday for private ownership.
The consensus of opinion yesterday was that Mr Tinkler's offer - to provide funding of up to $10 million over 10 years, which includes clearing the club's debts - was generous.
Many would have assumed Knights chairman Rob Tew, whose club is struggling with accumulated losses of more than $2.5 million, would have taken the money and run.
Instead he expressed certain misgivings, requested assurances that existing levels of income would be guaranteed, and politely declined.
The Knights were concerned that Mr Tinkler's offer contained a "ceiling" but no stipulated minimum investment.
They also feared certain sponsors would not back a privately owned club.
Within 24 hours, Mr Tinkler, miffed that the Knights had looked a gift horse in the mouth, emailed them to withdraw his offer.
He indicated the matter was "closed", although later that evening Tinkler Sports Group executive chairman Ken Edwards contacted the Newcastle Herald to go public and allow Knights members, and the community in general, to have their say.
Mr Edwards said Mr Tinkler's offer stood until December 31.
Judging by feedback on the Herald's website yesterday, the overwhelming sentiment appears to be incredulity that Knights officials would turn up their noses at a perceived lifeline.
In an online poll of more than 600 readers, more than 86 per cent said the Knights should have accepted Mr Tinkler's deal.
Rightly or wrongly, Knights management were widely castigated by the Novocastrian faithful for their high-stakes gamble.
Only a small percentage spoke out against a Tinkler takeover.
And so the onus falls on Knights members to take matters into their own hands and resolve this impasse.
The first step is to organise a members' petition of 100 signatories to call a special general meeting 21 days later, at which voting members can consider Mr Tinkler's proposal in detail.
If a 75 per cent majority vote in favour of constitutional change, they can override any boardroom roadblock.
If the members vote against Mr Tinkler, the status quo would remain.
So the message to Knights members is this simple: it is time to justify your existence.
Your club needs you. There should be no need to advertise that.
http://www.theherald.com.au/news/lo...ub-needs-you-to-get-ball-rolling/1994047.aspx

I just spotted this article (printed in yesterdays Herald) and it got me wondering...if the Herald told the citizens of Newcastle to storm Knights HQ with pitchforks in hand would they do it? It really is amazing the power that the media has over what much of the population thinks...

I hate to sound like a conspiracy theorist but there is zero (serious) reporting of the other side of the story, talk about pushing an agenda!

Also there's a Jodi McKay article floating around too which I'll find and post next too - says practically the same thing.
 

Serc

First Grade
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6,902
McKay warning to club's board
BY JOANNE MCCARTHY
11 Nov, 2010 04:00 AM

Minister for the Hunter Jodi McKay expressed alarm yesterday that Knights directors may not have known of Nathan Tinkler's $10 million bid for the club, and had "grave concerns about what else they have not been told".
Ms McKay issued a warning to the board about directors' responsibilities after indications some directors may not have known details of the bid until they read yesterday's Newcastle Herald.
Knights chairman Rob Tew rejected the bid without taking it to the board because he did not think it was a very good deal.
"I would think it incumbent on each and every one of the board directors to be completely up to date with every detail about the future viability of the club," she said.
Ms McKay expressed concerns about Mr Tew and chief executive officer Steve Burraston failing to put the bid before the board.
"If the board did not know about this bid until after the decision to reject it was made, I do have grave concerns about what else they have not been told."
Ms McKay said she was "very supportive" of the Tinkler Group's proposal.
http://www.theherald.com.au/news/local/news/general/mckay-warning-to-clubs-board/1994046.aspx
 

Serc

First Grade
Messages
6,902
Sell-out would put Knights at risk
BY ROBERT DILLON
11 Nov, 2010 04:00 AM

Knights chairman Rob Tew said yesterday his club would expose itself to "potential catastrophe" by selling out to Nathan Tinkler - or any other private owner - without financial guarantees.
Knights management attracted a barrage of criticism yesterday after revelations that Mr Tinkler, the Hunter Valley magnate who owns the Newcastle Jets, had made an offer to add the city's NRL franchise to his portfolio but been rebuffed.
Mr Tinkler's proposal, tabled on Monday, was to bankroll the club for up to $10 million over 10 years, which would include clearing accumulated losses of more than $2.5 million.
When Mr Tew responded that "we would need the existing levels of revenue, as a minimum, guaranteed each year", Mr Tinkler emailed the Knights to withdraw his offer and inform them the matter was "closed".
But the executive chairman of Tinkler Sports Group, Ken Edwards, contacted the Newcastle Herald on Tuesday night to make Knights members and the general public aware of the impasse.
Mr Tinkler's offer, which Mr Edwards said last night was negotiable, will stand until December 31.
The Knights had several issues with Mr Tinkler's offer, including:
* the fact it stipulated a "ceiling" of up to $10 million over 10 years, but no guaranteed minimum investment;
* confusion over whether the $10 million figure included repaying the $2.5 million accumulated losses, or was separate;
* concern about vague clauses such as the "Tinkler Group will ensure adequate working capital at all times";
* and concern that sponsors might not support a privatised club.
Mr Tew said the Knights needed to ensure that any new business model would not disadvantage the club.
"It's a matter of ensuring that any deal that we countenance to take to the members is a deal that places our club in a superior position than it currently is in," Mr Tew said.
"To do that, you need to have a guarantee on particular revenue streams.
"Alternatively, you run the risk of recommending to your members that they expose themselves to a potential catastrophe.
"That's not something that I'm comfortable with. Nor would I recommend it."
Mr Tew said he had no reason to doubt Mr Tinkler's bona fides, but added, "It's not sufficient to say 'I will do them'.
"You need to guarantee certain things . . . an incoming purchaser, or privatiser, would have to accept the fact that they would need to top up the revenue stream.
"And if that's the case, why wouldn't you guarantee it up front?"
Mr Edwards said Mr Tinkler was "frustrated" by the Knights' stance but hopeful that negotiations could resume.
"Everything is negotiable," Mr Edwards said.
"Nathan is determined to do the right thing by the Knights and by the Newcastle community . . . but what we're not prepared to do is enter into unrealistic and uncommercial and unfair arrangements.
"And some of what we've been asked to do we consider to fall under those categories."
Knights chief executive Steve Burraston said he had not given up hope of an amicable resolution.
"The board has always said they will consider any offer that is made in good faith," Mr Burraston said. "But it doesn't mean you have to accept the first offer that comes along.
"And it doesn't mean you don't have a right to negotiate.
"And it doesn't mean you don't have a right to question what is in the offer."
Mr Tew dismissed suggestions he had acted unilaterally in his dealings with Mr Tinkler this week, saying his board had been regularly updated.
"The fluency of the situation would dictate, as you would imagine, that not 100 per cent of the detail would be available on a daily matter to all of the board members," he said.
He was disappointed the Jets had opted to publicise the breakdown in negotiations.
"It's probably fair to say that part of the modus operandi that is unfolding is that there is a question that has been put out there in the public domain that perhaps the existing board and their chairman of the Newcastle Knights are not acting in the best interests of their members," Mr Tew said.
"I suspect that is the undertone to Ken Edwards and Nathan Tinkler releasing this into the public domain."
Mr Tew said he had "been told directly by some sponsors that they would need to rethink their position" if the club became privately owned.
Don't miss today's Newcastle Herald for three pages of detailed coverage. Have you had your say on this issue? Tell fellow readers what you think by posting a comment below.
http://www.theherald.com.au/news/local/news/general/sellout-would-put-knights-at-risk/1994049.aspx
 
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