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Knights to play Jamaica

Pommy

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14,657

England knights will play Jamaica in Leeds this October.
Love the knights concept or hate it but it can only be a good thing that Jamaica get a run out against a competitive team.
 

adamkungl

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Good news. Would have like to see Wales in there too but as usual with this sport we'll take what we can get..
 

roughyedspud

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12,181
Good to see if we plant enough seeds some of them sprout..

Should have been a 4nations with France & wales though
 

Pommy

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14,657
Good to see if we plant enough seeds some of them sprout..

Should have been a 4nations with France & wales though
Not a lot,I'd be shocked if it's more than a few hundred quid

I think that’s a bit fanciful myself. It’s very easy for us to say they should do this and that etc but the cost of hosting a single test to turning it in to a 4 team event I imagine will be huge. Jamaica for example will have to insure their players, doing that for one game is obviously achievable but we have no idea if they could afford to do it for 3+ games. It’s not like there’s going to be much tv money in a tournament between these nations.

I think the great thing about the knights games is the RFL is able to get games with very little investment. All they need to do is find a nation willing to play and sort a day out.
 

adamkungl

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I think that’s a bit fanciful myself. It’s very easy for us to say they should do this and that etc but the cost of hosting a single test to turning it in to a 4 team event I imagine will be huge. Jamaica for example will have to insure their players, doing that for one game is obviously achievable but we have no idea if they could afford to do it for 3+ games. It’s not like there’s going to be much tv money in a tournament between these nations.

We're all aware of this (we conveniently forget it sometimes, but we are)

But being the hopeful people that we are, we like to think that there's gains to be made in international rugby league with a bit of investment and vision.
If a tiny fraction of the money flowing through other areas of the sport made it to the international arena so much would be possible.

You could argue that no one runs things at a loss and that's that.
But it's not really true. Many businesses sell one product at a loss to draw people into buying their more profitable products. If the NRL or SL took a whole of game approach, they could sell cheap international football to get a bigger audience for their premium product in Wales, France, Jamaica, USA, etc.
Buuut the NRL won't even run a Kangaroos game vs GB.
 

Pommy

Coach
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14,657
We're all aware of this (we conveniently forget it sometimes, but we are)

But being the hopeful people that we are, we like to think that there's gains to be made in international rugby league with a bit of investment and vision.
If a tiny fraction of the money flowing through other areas of the sport made it to the international arena so much would be possible.

You could argue that no one runs things at a loss and that's that.
But it's not really true. Many businesses sell one product at a loss to draw people into buying their more profitable products. If the NRL or SL took a whole of game approach, they could sell cheap international football to get a bigger audience for their premium product in Wales, France, Jamaica, USA, etc.
Buuut the NRL won't even run a Kangaroos game vs GB.

Baby steps. Bringing the knights back is in my opinion a great move we had the png tour last year and Jamaica this.
I would love it to be more and can’t believe we didn’t have a mid season game this year, we shouldn’t be having a year between games (lets just pretend GB is England)
 

adamkungl

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Baby steps. Bringing the knights back is in my opinion a great move we had the png tour last year and Jamaica this.
I would love it to be more and can’t believe we didn’t have a mid season game this year, we shouldn’t be having a year between games (lets just pretend GB is England)

I'd like to hope the baby steps are going somewhere.
But history suggests that they'll get bored after a few years and swing to a completely different direction

I'm a fan of the Knights concept, or anything that gets tier 2 nations more games. There are things I'd change but it's better than nothing. But most England fans on here seem to hate it.
 

Pommy

Coach
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14,657
I'd like to hope the baby steps are going somewhere.
But history suggests that they'll get bored after a few years and swing to a completely different direction

I'm a fan of the Knights concept, or anything that gets tier 2 nations more games. There are things I'd change but it's better than nothing. But most England fans on here seem to hate it.

I think all the tier 1 nations should do it. I know Aus already do with the PMs 13 but it would be nice if that had the scope to do a couple of game tour like the knights did last year.
If the costs involved are quite low it can only be beneficial for everyone to do so.
The idea the full England team is going to regularly start playing one off tests against the like of Jamaica is very noble but a bit pie in the sky in my opinion.
 

adamkungl

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I think all the tier 1 nations should do it. I know Aus already do with the PMs 13 but it would be nice if that had the scope to do a couple of game tour like the knights did last year.
If the costs involved are quite low it can only be beneficial for everyone to do so.
The idea the full England team is going to regularly start playing one off tests against the like of Jamaica is very noble but a bit pie in the sky in my opinion.

Lets say they ditched the Knights thing and just called this 2nd string team 'England'.
Would it raise costs at all? Probably not.
The RFL could devise a player payment system where tests v 2nd tier nations are worth less. Team would be mostly filled with players trying to crack the GB side.

Would it raise sales? Maybe leaning towards yes. We know a lot of people aren't interested in the Knights concept. A 'proper' England team playing at a sensible timeslot in a well chosen location should be able to sell enough tickets to break even, even against Jamaica. Turn that into a short calendar with games v France and Wales and you have running interest to engage the media and public. One-off games are a hard sell, unless played at the same time with the same teams every year (eg Aus vs NZ, and even that has its struggles). A calendar builds engagement.

Is this really pie in the sky?

Repeat for Australia.
It's great we're playing in Fiji this year but I'd love to seem them do PNG and Fiji each year. They have the money and the players.
Ditch the PMXIII insignia or keep it, but give these games some visibility and standing. What's the point in Australia playing if no one in Australia can watch it?
 

Pommy

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People aren’t stupid they would know that it’s a second string England side, I don’t think it’s the name knights that turns people off but the concept.
I don’t see any benefits personally to muddying the waters.
 

adamkungl

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People aren’t stupid they would know that it’s a second string England side, I don’t think it’s the name knights that turns people off but the concept.
I don’t see any benefits personally to muddying the waters.

I think there's some benefit, showing respect to fans and opposition by playing with their test record actually on the line.
In Australia at least, a second string team is still a State of Origin side. Getting people to pay to watch it is a matter of marketing and giving the contest some real stakes. eg in other threads i've been banging on about the idea of Australia playing a 2nd string team in the Oceania Cup to show respect to the format. If Australia-B is playing Tonga with relegation from the top comp on the line, people will get interested.

BUT either way - more games is a good thing.
If England Knights or Australian PMXIII is what it takes to get 2nd tier nations games against Australia and England in the short term, I'm happy. More of it please.
 

Pommy

Coach
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14,657
I think there's some benefit, showing respect to fans and opposition by playing with their test record actually on the line.
In Australia at least, a second string team is still a State of Origin side. Getting people to pay to watch it is a matter of marketing and giving the contest some real stakes. eg in other threads i've been banging on about the idea of Australia playing a 2nd string team in the Oceania Cup to show respect to the format. If Australia-B is playing Tonga with relegation from the top comp on the line, people will get interested.

BUT either way - more games is a good thing.
If England Knights or Australian PMXIII is what it takes to get 2nd tier nations games against Australia and England in the short term, I'm happy. More of it please.

Sorry claiming that state of origin is a second string side is just disingenuous.
 

adamkungl

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Sorry claiming that state of origin is a second string side is just disingenuous.

How so. If you picked a 34 man Australian side, it would literally be the 2 State of Origin sides with only minor exceptions.
 

Pommy

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14,657
How so. If you picked a 34 man Australian side, it would literally be the 2 State of Origin sides with only minor exceptions.

So are the nrl sides second string origin teams?
Honestly I think it’s a pretty ridiculous claim to make.
 

adamkungl

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So are the nrl sides second string origin teams?
Honestly I think it’s a pretty ridiculous claim to make.

A second string SOO side would likely be about the level of a good NRL side, wouldn't it?

For what its worth, the intent of my original statement was not to call SOO a second string comp, but saying that a 2nd string Roos side is still extremely high quality. Quite literally State of Origin quality, given how the side is selected. Semantic difference maybe.
 

deluded pom?

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10,897
People aren’t stupid they would know that it’s a second string England side, I don’t think it’s the name knights that turns people off but the concept.
I don’t see any benefits personally to muddying the waters.
The Knights name just screams second rate IMO. Use them for tours but this should have been an international with full caps awarded.
 

Pommy

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14,657
The Knights name just screams second rate IMO. Use them for tours but this should have been an international with full caps awarded.

People aren’t stupid all the first rate England players will be running around NZ in red white and blue.
 

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