KOE (ex Canterbury Cup) and Jersey Flegg

[Dragon the chain]

I'm close to that view myself.. pretty sure another club would pick him up.. he stays in cup imo off the bench for a few months.. but then we need to see if Tonga and Latu will join him as cup props.. or just JF.

AlecT is a bit unlucky in all this, I think his fate was sealed before the season even began, but there is still many months of footy ahead for these guys to demand selection.

Alec T. hasn't been that unlucky. He usually does his job, but it's not as if he's killing it in Cup. I will say, though, that he has been better than Fifita every game I've seen, both last year and this year. I'd definitely hang on to Alec T. as a cheap depth piece because I think he'd do a decent job if called upon.

 

[hook hook]

I think the unlucky one out of the cup team is T couchman. He’s been the clear standout prop in cup

 

[TheRev]

Alec T. hasn't been that unlucky. He usually does his job, but it's not as if he's killing it in Cup. I will say, though, that he has been better than Fifita every game I've seen, both last year and this year. I'd definitely hang on to Alec T. as a cheap depth piece because I think he'd do a decent job if called upon.

I think Alec has been the best forward (bar Musgrove/BMM in patches) these last 2 seasons of NSW Cup.. I mean they all have their strengths and weaknesses..

But its just a question of how many Top 30 spots can we give up for blokes who could 'maybe' play off the 1st grade bench this year or next or the one after?

That said in a months time, 6 blokes are injured.. it all looks very different.. injuries have a way of humbling a clubs roster depth. Maybe Alec is playing 1st grade before we know it..

 

[TheRev]

I think the unlucky one out of the cup team is T couchman. He’s been the clear standout prop in cup

Toby has had a great few weeks, I dont think of him as unlucky though, its ok to play NSW Cup.. hes 20yrs old and I reckon he could play a dozen NRL games this year easily.. I think its great that he can actually prove to himself that he can compete against men at cup level.. I wouldnt say hes dominating at cup (like running over ppl).. but I would say hes very competitive.. and that high workrate/energy is his thing.. I probably notice Toby more than Ryan, but both have potential.. its strange that twins are in different positions.. though I suppose the Feagais varied a little also.

Alec & Fifita are 23yrs old, this is their window if they are going to be persisted with.. before all these 18-19yr olds start filtering through from the SG and JF systems.

 

[Dragon the chain]

I think Alec has been the best forward (bar Musgrove/BMM in patches) these last 2 seasons of NSW Cup.. I mean they all have their strengths and weaknesses..

But its just a question of how many Top 30 spots can we give up for blokes who could 'maybe' play off the 1st grade bench this year or next or the one after?

That said in a months time, 6 blokes are injured.. it all looks very different.. injuries have a way of humbling a clubs roster depth. Maybe Alec is playing 1st grade before we know it..

Ryan Couchman was EASILY the best NSW Cup forward last year.

This year both Couchmans have been head and shoulders the best.

 

[Dragon the chain]

...I wouldnt say hes dominating at cup (like running over ppl)...

He had 5 offloads in the first half last week!

 

[TheRev]

Ryan Couchman was EASILY the best NSW Cup forward last year.

This year both Couchmans have been head and shoulders the best.

Hmm I mean they have high energy outputs.. Ryan had so many errors in him last year.. and in terms of progression... 2nd row is different because we have really good 2nd rowers in 1st grade.. we have 4 of em.. so his path is kind of blocked until we get injuries.. and we see what we do with Eisenhuth next year.

I was really reffering to props... cause we have blokes like MMolo, Fifita, Lawrie, even maybe BMM though im a fan.. but those spots are up for grabs if someone is good enough..... in 2023.. Tobys energy was infectious, but 1st grade is bigger and faster and I think they just needed time physically.. no doubt both Couchmans look a big step better this year versus last year... I think Toby is ready for a bench spot this year in 1sts, its just not a rush or anything.

Ryan I think is a 2025 prospect if Eisenhuth is let go.. or injury.. its a quandry..

 

[Dragon the chain]

Running meters aren't everything. But here are yesterday's running meters for the forwards:

T. Couchman 175
R. Couchman 160
D. Russell 89
M. Molo 79
J. Coric 65
V. Fifita 47
A. Tuitivake 36
D. Egan 23

 

[TheRev]

Running meters aren't everything. But here are yesterday's running meters for the forwards:

T. Couchman 175
R. Couchman 160
D. Russell 89
M. Molo 79
J. Coric 65
V. Fifita 47
A. Tuitivake 36
D. Egan 23

They are huge metres, its also related to the huge minutes the Couchmans are pumping out.. 67mins for a Prop and 80 for Ryan.. something was going on with Alec yesterday though, he only got 2 runs in his 33mins..

But take ur point, btw Couchmans are some of my fave youngsters.. and having a huge year.. I honestly think one more pre-season and they will hold their own in 1sts.. but workrate alone is one consideration, they need the size too to compete at the top level ... thats rly the problem with MMolo, he can do big minutes.. but we need him to stick his head thru the line too, or we are going to get beaten up.

 

[hook hook]

They are huge metres, its also related to the huge minutes the Couchmans are pumping out.. 67mins for a Prop and 80 for Ryan.. something was going on with Alec yesterday though, he only got 2 runs in his 33mins..

But take ur point, btw Couchmans are some of my fave youngsters.. and having a huge year.. I honestly think one more pre-season and they will hold their own in 1sts.. but workrate alone is one consideration, they need the size too to compete at the top level ... thats rly the problem with MMolo, he can do big minutes.. but we need him to stick his head thru the line too, or we are going to get beaten up.

I agree with the Ryan sentiment, Toby on the other hand, when he played firsts last year even, would stick his nose through far enough to fall on his front and get a quick play the ball. With liddles form, I think that would be far more valuable than a Blake Lawrie who works hard but doesn’t dent the line

 

[Dragon the chain]

They are huge metres, its also related to the huge minutes the Couchmans are pumping out.. 67mins for a Prop and 80 for Ryan.. something was going on with Alec yesterday though, he only got 2 runs in his 33mins..

But take ur point, btw Couchmans are some of my fave youngsters.. and having a huge year.. I honestly think one more pre-season and they will hold their own in 1sts.. but workrate alone is one consideration, they need the size too to compete at the top level ... thats rly the problem with MMolo, he can do big minutes.. but we need him to stick his head thru the line too, or we are going to get beaten up.

There's nothing wrong with small middles. Rueben Cotter has won MOM in SOO a couple of times playing in the middle.

 

[TheRev]

There's nothing wrong with small middles. Rueben Cotter has won MOM in SOO a couple of times playing in the middle.

Agree, but they need to hold their own, you would agree Toby wasnt doing enough in 1st grade last year?

 

[Dragonsteve2]

I agree with the Ryan sentiment, Toby on the other hand, when he played firsts last year even, would stick his nose through far enough to fall on his front and get a quick play the ball. With liddles form, I think that would be far more valuable than a Blake Lawrie who works hard but doesn’t dent the line

Since Friday night's great win I have been saying one measure of how much better the pack is this year is that Blake was our best last year whereas as well as he played on Fri night which was better than some of his other games this year, he is currently our weakest forward! Best to least effective in a matter of months.

 

[Desperate Dragon]

Agree, but they need to hold their own, you would agree Toby wasnt doing enough in 1st grade last year?

Flanagan acknowledged that Toby was probably blooded too early last year when making his first grade debut.
I have seen him play a few times in the past 2 seasons, and I am sure he will return to first grade again this year when Flanagan thinks the time is right.

 

[Dragon the chain]

Agree, but they need to hold their own, you would agree Toby wasnt doing enough in 1st grade last year?

I think he mostly was doing enough. I think the primary role of a middle forward in the NRL is to defend well and hold the ruck together. I thought our ruck defence was better with him on the field last year than it was when he was off the field. He moved well and cleaned up a lot of dangerous moments, he also won a lot of wrestles and slowed the play the balls. He wasn't hitting as hard as JDB, but he was doing a lot of the dirty work. We lost a lot of games last year for various reasons: weird edge defence, losing players to the sin bin, poor game management, innacurate goalkicking, etc. But we were actually OK in the middle, and I think Toby mostly held his own.

This year, we lost the ruck badly against the Dolphins and Cowboys this year. Our middles did not hold their own in these games and we were played off the park. We were also struggling there at times against Manly and at the start of the game against the Warriors. I feel like as long as you can hold it together in the middle of the field, you are a chance of winning. The Newcastle game was a rare example of playing well enough in the middle and being out of the game. But this was because we were sabotaged by bad moments from our halves and fullback in that game.

 

[Dragon the chain]

Flanagan acknowledged that Toby was probably blooded too early last year when making his first grade debut.
I have seen him play a few times in the past 2 seasons, and I am sure he will return to first grade again this year when Flanagan thinks the time is right.

I heard Flanno say that Toby was blooded too early, but Toby was way more prepared for first grade at 19 than Fifita was at 23, when Flanno gave him a debut.

Perhaps he will play first grade this year. Perhaps he won't. But he's been playing very well in Cup. I suspect the smart clubs with the good scouts have noticed.

 

[Dragons4me]

Hmm I mean they have high energy outputs.. Ryan had so many errors in him last year.. and in terms of progression... 2nd row is different because we have really good 2nd rowers in 1st grade.. we have 4 of em.. so his path is kind of blocked until we get injuries.. and we see what we do with Eisenhuth next year.

I was really reffering to props... cause we have blokes like MMolo, Fifita, Lawrie, even maybe BMM though im a fan.. but those spots are up for grabs if someone is good enough..... in 2023.. Tobys energy was infectious, but 1st grade is bigger and faster and I think they just needed time physically.. no doubt both Couchmans look a big step better this year versus last year... I think Toby is ready for a bench spot this year in 1sts, its just not a rush or anything.

Ryan I think is a 2025 prospect if Eisenhuth is let go.. or injury.. its a quandry..

I have confidence in Flanno making the right decision. He knows Fifita and Tui from his Manly days. It's all positive in my opinion.

 

[Lennyb]

Round 12 v the dogs would be a good time for Toby to have another taste of NRL. Barring injuries before then.

 

[denis preston]

Rev, really must compliment you on the above post and several others. Really impressive observations. I will try to add a few perspectives without overlapping too much with you.

For me getting to watch the 2 lower grades without paying a cent is just brilliant despite the 2 losses. As a pensioner I have paid just $5 to watch 4 games over the past 2 weekends. Great too the access to players. Had quite a chat to Mat Feagai both before and after the game. Said he was enjoying playing FB tho he hasn't played there since he was 17.

Sometimes League supporters give players a hard time for being friendly with the opposition after the game. Well for anyone interested these Dragons shook hands with their opponents as decent young sportsmen should then returned to their own group absolutely shattered by their loss. They were really hurt by how they let it slip.

Rev, gotta agree with you about Sione. He gave a classic demonstration of dropping his head after his unfortunate loss of possession. I also agree with your comment on the Kiwis. I spoke to a couple of them as they were boarding their bus. Very pleased with their win but very friendly and very humble.

I was amazed at the shape of the Couchmans. The most massive of thighs that I can't recall from last year. Have always preferred Tuitavake to Fifita. No reason to change my view after yesterday tho Tui's minutes were very brief. Just worried me that he may be another Lui Tosso. Great effort but just can't play enough minutes. I rather like Michael Molo but was disappointed with his lack of inspiration today.

Marschke - hot and cold. A massive torpedo bomb which curled away from the winger underneath causing him to knock on. Two kicks which looked far too deep which bounced backward from the dead ball line for two tries to the Dragons. Marschke's final conversion from near the sideline hitting the post and boucing away was really hard luck. So too was the touchies'call on a Warriors' conversion which I am 90% sure did not go between the posts. A vital call in a game won and lost by 2 points. The kick in question was above the height of the uprights. It was dead in line with an imaginary extended left hand post. The ball just faded to the left of that line at the last minute. Tough call for the touchies but the ref was in a much better position to make a call. If he has the authority to overrule the touchies he really should have done so.

The first time I have met Connor M - as nice a young kid as the Feagais and just as gutted at the end of the game. I have read a reference above to Nick T. 2nd game back in Flegg. Looking good in attack and defence but on limited minutes because of his late start to the season due to a back injury followed by a broken finger which added 6 weeks to his time out.

Great stuff guys, part of the reason I value this forum.

 

[Wolfgang90]

Great insight provided. I hope the Couchman's get some 1st grade experience this year, maybe during origin period if Su'a is selected otherwise form/injuries to others?

I've liked Toby's defence in the middle last year, I thought he provided different tackling techniques to slow down the ruck which is advanced for his age imo & was a good line runner.

I wonder if Flanno thinks the Couchmans are too similar to our current middles with JDB/Sele & wants more of a power/impact player like BMM/F.Molo (Lawrie?).

It's important to get 1st grade games into them while they're young, so they gain a bit of experience & understand requirement of 1st grade which can better shape their training etc.

Apparently they're great trainers & have good footy IQ too.