Lack of attacking structure inside opposition 20

[K-Man]

As the title suggests, from where I'm sitting we have the worst structure in the comp when it comes to attacking our opponents' line with a full set of six - decoy runners, movement, speed of passing, speed of hole runners, set plays, fullback linking into the backline as a playmaker, etc.

At times it seems almost non-existant. It's not just that we aren't scoring a lot of tries despite an even share of posession, it's that we don't even look like scoring. I don't even jump out of my seat or tense up because Sau, Vuna, or Uate have stormed onto the end of a flowing backline sweep only to be held up just short... because it never happens.

And what REALLY bothers me about this is that I heard Rick Stone in pre-season nominate THIS aspect of the game as what we had most worked on during the off-season. Every other coach said things like defence or combinations etc, but Stone specifically came out and told the Rugby League world that his biggest priority had been "asking more questions when attacking the opposition line".

Every other NRL match I watch I see both winning and losing teams put on at least some neat, well-worked plays at the line. Apart from kicks it is how most tries are scored.

The Knights look absolutely lost, even when it is a full set of six from 20 metres out.

To me this is the biggest concern we currently have (on the field). And to be honest this alone forces me to question Stone's ability as a first grade coach.

 

[Apey]

Can't really say much else but that I agree. It's our biggest problem.

 

[Medievalknight]

Inexperienced coach maybe ?

 

[Misanthrope]

He's got plenty of experience coaching. No excuses.

 

[Rod]

Surely it's not that hard to come up with a few set plays with a couple of decoy runners etc is it?

I remember at the end of 2005 when we had nuffies in our backline and the beginning of 2006 (when we didn't) that we were producing really effective movements involving second man plays and decoy runners almost from one side of the field to the other the way teams like Melbourne do now. Half the time all Joey had to do was catch and pass straight away along the line and we were scoring tries. I don't know why we hardly ever see that from this team.

 

[Coastbloke]

Maybe Stoney needs to rip a door of it's hinges..??

I also agree with 99% of the OP..

 

[Serc]

Pretty good summary there...the only thing positive thing I can think of is that we have redone our entire attacking structure in the offseason (from a Smithy style to whatever we are supposed to be doing now) and it is taking a while to work, not dissimilar to Parra last season where they finally clicked all of a sudden mid season.

I hope thats the case anyway and things aren't going to stay the way they are right now...

 

[Coastbloke]

As I've said before..

Stoney was a 'hero' in the last few games of 2009 and then this year there was a win over a team that was considered possible 2010 Premiers and then a very close loss over the previous years Premiers..

At some stage, the players have to put their hands up and take some of the blame, but in addition, we are also missing Kidley and McManus..

Their return WILL make a difference..

Having said that, watching last night - as the OP said - we just seem to 'panic' 10 metres out and that is a massive concern..

 

[Bring it home Knights]

As good as Mcdonell has been at the back, I believe one of the issues close to the opposition line comes down to him. Just about every team has a fullback that plays like another ball player near the line. He offers very little in attack.

 

[Johns Magic]

The original post of this thread is an extended version of something I said last night. A major issue.

 

[Jono078]

I've been saying it for the last season and a half, well mostly about Mullen's lack of a good attacking kick in the opponents red zone.

I don't think we have the wingers to contest cross field kicks adequetly, and if I ever see one of those perfect looking grubbers belted hard as f**k ending up in row 1 i'll break something.

I believe the grubber is the most under used kick in the NRL when in the opponents red zone. We saw with Taylor on the weekend against us what a good grubber can do, even if it was a little bit lucky.

If you don't get a try you're a good chance of a repeat set if it's weighted well also.

And then you look at Melbourne how they attack, while they didn't get points on Friday they displayed good structure by passing behind players and also mixing it up with giving the flat ball to the runner and inside passes.

We look for the strike blow it seems when sometimes early on you just have to set up plays for later in the game and put questions in the defenders heads. Do the occasional inside ball, do the flat pass to the hole runner, to the behind pass to the fullback.

We just seem like a bit of a mess by passing and hoping for someone to beat a player one on one.

 

[K-Man]

Could have anything to do with an over-reliance or over-committment to the Brian Smith "every player is a ballplayer" philosophy of attack?

When it's working it seems to be incredible - front rowers popping short balls to other front rowers for tries (Faas and Wicks and Taia especially were doing it a lot last year), Paterson set up Tolar for us last night, I think Ciraldo in his greatest ever match put in a grubber for a try.

But if it's not all coming together nicely and the forwards aren't at their best, at some point I think you need your key playmakers to step up and control the game and provide some structured attack.

It's almost as if we don't believe we need it because we are going to outplay them in the middle with inside balls, flat passes etc... and basically, we are not succeeding at it.

It seems like a very flimsy analysis, because surely no firstgrade coaching set-up could be this one-dimensional in its approach... but I can't think of anything else. (What is Dunemann doing by the way?)

Apart from, I totally agree - Shannon McDonnell. He is killing us in attack.

 

[K-Man]

I suppose to be fair if we ever actually saw

1. Gidley
6. Rogers/Mullen
7. Mullen/Dureau
9. De Gois
12/13. Taia

it might be a different story. Those are players and combinations we rely on to provide the spark and creativity in attack.

So when you throw in a mish-mash of Hilder, McDonnell, Taufua etc into these positions you have to expect a huge drop in skill level at the line.

Even so, it looks a hell of a lot like plain old poor coaching...

 

[Apey]

Definitely sick of seeing the cross-field chips. The grubbers for repeat sets are a much better option. There is always the higher chance that if we don't get a try we will at least get a repeat set allowing us to actually create some pressure.

 

[Spot On]

Surely it's not that hard to come up with a few set plays with a couple of decoy runners etc is it?



No it is not. You need only watch the "Wayne Bennett" style of attack from 20m out with decoy runners and cut out pass that has worked for Brisbane (for 20 years) and now St George and inevitably leads to at least a try a week. A stock standard attacking structure used time and again, week after week which DOES create plenty of points for plenty of teams. It's the same bloody play every week and leads it leads to points every week. Just use it.

 

[perverse]

It seems like a very flimsy analysis, because surely no firstgrade coaching set-up could be this one-dimensional in its approach... but I can't think of anything else. (What is Dunemann doing by the way?)

just cherry picked this out of your post to say that i think mullen has shown a lot of control with his kicking game this year when compared with last year... particularly a lot of maturity with touch finders and a fair few grubbers against souths too. this early on i would say dunnemann has taught mullo how to utilise some of the smaller but significant parts of being a half that have been lacking in mullens game for a long time. this has probably been at the expense of some of his attacking prowess (or so it would appear). i'm hoping it all comes together for him and he goes up to that next level, but we're seeing a very different jarrod mullen this year so far.

obviously the season is only 5 rounds old... but these are my early impressions of what dunnemann is bringing to the table.

 

[Yosh]

I remeber writing about this quite often last year. About how we don't have any sweeping motions in attack but some of the guys came out and said we stand flat for a reason and its our style of attack... I don't remember exactly...

I definately believe it is a huge concern. More often than not when Mullen/Dureau have the ball we have one or no runners hitting the whole with Gusto! We should have 2 or 3 hitting the line up left right and centre and somtimes the fullback chiming in to either get the football in a second man play or least decoy for the defenders to worry about.

We look really disjointed out there and the confidence seems really low. Cross puts his hand up alot out of our end but we need more forwards or backs to put their hand up to get the ball running into a hole or out wide. Obvoiusly apart from Uate who wants the ball 6 out of the 5 tackles.

 

[Alex28]

I've been overseas for the last few weeks and haven't seen any of the losses...however I ask...Is Scotty actually capable of creating plays that create the overlaps/plays that the runners need to score tries?

It's all well and good to say we need to play more like the Storm or the Dragons, however we do not have a Cronk or a Head running the show like they do.

 

[macavity]

I've been overseas for the last few weeks and haven't seen any of the losses...however I ask...Is Scotty actually capable of creating plays that create the overlaps/plays that the runners need to score tries?

It's all well and good to say we need to play more like the Storm or the Dragons, however we do not have a Cronk or a Head running the show like they do.

welcome to 2004...

 

[Newie is God's Country]

Surely it's not that hard to come up with a few set plays with a couple of decoy runners etc is it?



No it is not. You need only watch the "Wayne Bennett" style of attack from 20m out with decoy runners and cut out pass that has worked for Brisbane (for 20 years) and now St George and inevitably leads to at least a try a week. A stock standard attacking structure used time and again, week after week which DOES create plenty of points for plenty of teams. It's the same bloody play every week and leads it leads to points every week. Just use it.

It helps when you have the best finisher in the game on the left wing though and a 5/8 with the best cut out pass in the game. Soward deserves to play origin. He will destroy QLD with our backline.