League unfashionable in Sydney?

[yakstorm]

I think the league need to get things together at a grassroots level. I am now in my 30's and my involvement in junior league has been minimal for well over 10 years now. However I find that most of the junior leagues have now amalgamated. Whenever I pick up a local newspaper I see that teams from the Balmain junior league are playing teams from Manly. Whats the go here? To me it looks like junior numbers are dwindling.
The key to Rugby Leagues success is to have a thriving junior league. When I was a kid on Sydney's North, we had a junior league covering from Berowra and Galston all the way down to Willoughby and McMahons Point. We never had amalgamated comps with Balmain or Manly. We used to get visits at school from time to time from a couple of Bears players. Do other clubs still do this? It doesn't happen on the North Shore anymore for obvious reasons. These days the north would more likely get visits from Paul Roos and a couple of his players! LeagueXIII is correct about the massive black hole left by the axeing of the bears.

The NRL need to take a leaf out of McDonalds book. Target the kids, and the whole family will follow!

Junior Grassroots is a level that Rugby League is making huge inroads in. This year, Rugby League will record participation rates of over 360,000, after breaking the 300,000 mark for the first time EVER in the history of the game last year.

League's like Balmain have more players, teams and participants now than they have had for 30 years, and every league in Sydney has enjoyed growth now for the past 4-5 years.

Looking back in the so called 'Goldern Eras' of Participant, League in 1991 only had 180,000 participants, 1994 had 220,000, 1996 which had 235,000 which was the largest participant numbers till 2002 when the game finally started making big inroads again.

A lot of people are quick to point to the club system and go 'oh look at all the clubs that no longer exist' however that doesn't necessarily mean there is less interest in a particular area. School alligned Rugby League has been a huge growth area for the game in the past 4 - 5 years, and naturally you can only expect this will 'limit' the growth of the clubs, but to the club's credits they have still been growing, so much so participantion in the club scene has also broke its old record participation rate in the last 12 months.

The biggest problem for RL is growing the Senior market.

It has been stuck around the 30K mark now for eight years...

 

[miccle]

Your media "coincidently" also treated the match a sh*tload better than anything I've seen from the Sydney media this tournament. Some of the best news ltd RL articles of current are coming out of Steve Rickets and the courier mail. There was 4 or 5 pages of RL on game day up there, including a great Mike Coleman double page spread on past Aus vs GB clashes in Brissie. I also got hold of the Gold Coast Bulletin whilst up there, and the coverage in there was also good. The print in the sports section was actually far smaller than the Tele, and they got a sh*tload of info in there. Looked a very RL friendly paper from what I could tell.

So basically in my opinion the crowds in Brissie vs Sydney, can be put down to a few things.

- the more positive attitude of the QLD media
- An excellent central stadium with decent public transport
- Slightly better economic conditions
- More big name QLDers in the team

However these are not excuses for Sydney. Our population is far bigger and we still think we are the home of Rugby League. But the Brisbane model should be used to pinpoint what is going wrong down here.

"More big name Qlders in the team"? Might've helped last weekend, maybe, but what about earlier this year and in 2005 in the ANZAC test matches? Both easily cleared 40k.

Trust me, I work as a media monitor up here in Brisbane and the media isn't that friendly to the game at all. The radio media isn't that bad, but league is at least on equal pairing with Union and Cricket on all the commercial stations (which were flogging the ashes way more than the RL test) and ABC radio up here is strongly weighted twoards AFL, mainly because many presenters were orinally from the southern states.

The Courier-Mail has always been a league-friendly paper, but it by no means dominates when it comes to these tournaments outside the regular season.

Honestly, it's just absolute indifference in Sydney. The big factor about Brisbane when it comes to these games is:

1. Yes we have a great stadium. I'll admit that very clearly, but I don't know about the central aspect. I've read numerous people bitching on here over the years about the walk up from any decent carkparks in the city, and the fact that only one train line takes you to the nearest station meaning a changeover of trains at some point, or a 20 min walk uphill from Roma St (I love it, but most people are lazy).

2. People WANT to attend live sporting matches up here. The amount of RL fans that DON'T support the Broncos in south-east Qld is absolutely incredible. Thousands upon thousands support every team imaginable, most common ones being the Dogs, Eels and St George. Understandably, many people like this will go to one, if any, Broncos game involving someone other than their team. Hence, they hang out for origin and international matches.

3. I believe one of the biggest factors is how Brisbane were snubbed from international footy for so long. Over HALF A DECADE passed before we were finally 'allowed' to host the Trans-Tasman up here again, and I still think a lot of it comes down to the fact that seeing an international RL match is something many people in Brisbane haven't done at all, or for a long time.

 

[ucantseeme]

Looking back at the past 2 seasons:

2005 - Fairytale with 3 perennial underdogs (Kiwis,Tigers,Cowboys) finally doing good with record tv & crowd ratings

2006 - Melbourne,Melbourne,Melbourne. Sold out Origin 3, Storm make GF, massive tv ratings in Melbourne for NRL GF, NRL GF/SOO 3/3N Final all shown live in Melbourne, 30000+ for 3N game in Melbourne, increased media coverage, storm getting bigger crowds & a new stadium

2005 & 2006 have both been great years for RL for different reasons.

NRL is #1 in Sydney, the crowds & tv ratings werent better than 2005 because most Sydney teams went poorly. 3N games in Sydney had poor attendance because....um..well......the, uh, tv ratings were good.

 

[c_eagle]

I think it's very relevant. If Sydney was to start losing these events to Brisbane then I bet crowds would pick up. I think it's a taking things for granted sort of thing. Take a look at the cricket for the last 2 days!

Brisbane has an extended metro population of close to 2.5 million. They can't even fill a 50k seat stadium once a fortnight for the only league team in the region. Sydney has 9 teams, all of which average around 15 k. Do the maths.

In the NFL, teams with such a large population sell out their stadium seasons in advance.

There have been some really good points raised. It's obvious that the NRL has an image problem, almost similar to the one that the Bulldogs have.

 

[miccle]

c_eagle, Brisbane's extended population is nowhere near that. If you say that, then we're including the Central Coast and down to the Gong for Sydney's population FFS.

Now, onto another hypothetical - would you really go to a game every fortnight if the Roosters were the only Sydney team and you hated them?

Rubbishing the only league team to smash the 30K attendance average in a season for a long while is ridiculous.

 

[miccle]

Sydney has 9 teams, all of which average around 15 k. Do the maths.

Really? 15k... I thought it'd be closer to 13.

If that's the case, we're looking at 117K.

Sydney = more or less 3.5 times the size of Brisbane (c'mon - the 9 teams stretch down to the Gong and west to Penrith)... so it's about spot on when it comes to club averages.

Now, onto TN?? Shouldn't you guys SURELY be putting more than 30K people in that stadium considering we got substantially more than that?

 

[c_eagle]

Really? 15k... I thought it'd be closer to 13.

If that's the case, we're looking at 117K.

Sydney = more or less 3.5 times the size of Brisbane (c'mon - the 9 teams stretch down to the Gong and west to Penrith)... so it's about spot on when it comes to club averages.

Now, onto TN?? Shouldn't you guys SURELY be putting more than 30K people in that stadium considering we got substantially more than that?

3.5? Are you mad? That'd be the entire population of NSW. It's about double, maybe 2.5 if we're being very generous.

2.5 x 30 (Brisbane's home crowd average) = 75k.

75 / 9 = 8.5 approx.

Sydney teams average more than 8.5k, lol.

Are you saying that the Broncos average is OK considering the population? I think it's pathetic, the Lions are on par, ffs.

As for Sydney's crowds, obviously I agree that they aren't great for the TN, read the initial post and see who the thread starter was.

 

[miccle]

1. As I said before, how many people in Brisbane like the Broncos. THOUSANDS don't go, because they hate Brisbane and that's why we see massive crowds for origin and internationals.

2. Yes Brisbane's crowds are fantastic and they are just getting bigger. On par with the Lions? No, better than the lions now. Not bad, considering it'd been six years since we had won, and they notched up three in a row with another GF appearance during that time. NOT TO MENTION the fact that there are dickloads of Victorians coming up here.

Brisbane = approx 1.5 million. That's about it - and there is nothing wrong with our crowds.

Again you're shifting the point a bit. Why can somewhere with 2.5 times the population of Brisbane get around 60% of the crowd for an international?

 

[c_eagle]

Again you're shifting the point a bit. Why can somewhere with 2.5 times the population of Brisbane get around 60% of the crowd for an international?

How am I shifting the point? I started the thread.

I don't think the Broncos crowds are great at all, which is a completely independant point from the one which relates to Sydney and the 3N.

 

[Eelementary]

The thing for me is that I am an Eels fan, first and foremost.

Origins and Tests...To be brutally honest, they bore me. I'll watch them - but my favourite players are not rep stars. Hayne, Moimoi, Mateo - they're all either young, unknown or always suspended lol...

So, what am I saying?

I'm one of those people who will only go to Eels games. I try to watch other teams play - to support the code - but I just can't get into it.

 

[Misty Bee]

How could last night bore you ffs????

I reckon they would have gotten more people at Telstra. The SFS is so much harder to get to. Then again, Telstra would have been half empty as well, but they would have gotten 40k there.

BTW, Sydney's pop is roughly double Brisbane + Gold Coast.

I also not this morning's Herald online - on page 1 thre is mention of teh Wallabies, but none of League. Similar reaction on News.

 

[Brutus]

1. As I said before, how many people in Brisbane like the Broncos. THOUSANDS don't go, because they hate Brisbane and that's why we see massive crowds for origin and internationals.

2. Yes Brisbane's crowds are fantastic and they are just getting bigger. On par with the Lions? No, better than the lions now. Not bad, considering it'd been six years since we had won, and they notched up three in a row with another GF appearance during that time. NOT TO MENTION the fact that there are dickloads of Victorians coming up here.

What about those signs at the Gabba during the cricket "And he's a Victorian" and "Warney: A Victorian Legend"

Hardly surprising to see signs like that in Brisbane with so many Mexicans up there. :lol: No wonder the Brisbane Lions get decent crowds these days with all these brainwashed AFL types living up there.

 

[TeamSatan]

I have lived in Sydney all my life and its true that some people look down at rugby league.
It is up to us to stand tall and say "I am a league man" with pride. Challenge them on their snobbery, point out the history and courageous elements of our game.
The main problem is that Sydney has a high immigration from other states and countries who bring their own preferences.
League has been here 100 years and we will not just roll over for some newbies who just arrived.
Tell them to give league a go...encourage them...you know they will love it.

 

[Wests is Best]

Junior Grassroots is a level that Rugby League is making huge inroads in. This year, Rugby League will record participation rates of over 360,000, after breaking the 300,000 mark for the first time EVER in the history of the game last year.

League's like Balmain have more players, teams and participants now than they have had for 30 years, and every league in Sydney has enjoyed growth now for the past 4-5 years.

Looking back in the so called 'Goldern Eras' of Participant, League in 1991 only had 180,000 participants, 1994 had 220,000, 1996 which had 235,000 which was the largest participant numbers till 2002 when the game finally started making big inroads again.

A lot of people are quick to point to the club system and go 'oh look at all the clubs that no longer exist' however that doesn't necessarily mean there is less interest in a particular area. School alligned Rugby League has been a huge growth area for the game in the past 4 - 5 years, and naturally you can only expect this will 'limit' the growth of the clubs, but to the club's credits they have still been growing, so much so participantion in the club scene has also broke its old record participation rate in the last 12 months.

The biggest problem for RL is growing the Senior market.

It has been stuck around the 30K mark now for eight years...

Thanks for that response Yakstorm. It is encouraging to see those junior figures. So it looks like too many players are giving the game away as they get older. I'd dare say that would not be due to lack of passion for the game that players would do this, but more likely fear of injuries impacting their jobs?

 

[herbert henry1908]

Ii would be interesting to see a sustained effort from the nrl/arl to get Rugby League played in more schools on the north shore and eastern suburbs.

while i think it would take a very long time to happen i would love to see one day schools like waverly, shore , knox , barker etc have rugby league as an option for their students or at the very least allow some of their students that want to play Rugby league to do so at an outside club and thus completing their compulsory sport requirement.

yeah i realise its a massive pipedream ( as i went to one of these schools) but this could really help in breaking down some of the snobbery that exists in these areas towards our game.

considering all these schools receive government funding it would be nice to see the federal government ( after some signifigant lobbying) step in to see that all major national sports are offered at these schools.

 

[yakstorm]

Thanks for that response Yakstorm. It is encouraging to see those junior figures. So it looks like too many players are giving the game away as they get older. I'd dare say that would not be due to lack of passion for the game that players would do this, but more likely fear of injuries impacting their jobs?

Why people stop playing the game is a good question and its one that the code has been quite slow in even attempting to address.

Naturally as people move into full time work, the amount of free time they have generally drops making it difficult for people to play the game. Lets face it, when you commit for a season you are giving up your Tuesdays and Thursday nights, plus usually half of your Saturday or Sunday for training and playing.

Injuries also play a part in making people reluctant to play, especially if the individual works in an industry where their fitness affects their ability to work or not.

So there will be a drop off cause of that, which there is limited amounts that the game can do about it. However personally I feel a lot of the problems are caused by the lack of options for those who can't play A Grade.

In Sydney especially, most A Grade competitions are played on a Sunday, and the standard of football is reasonably high. I know personally for myself, I dropped out of playing in an A Grade competition to move to the Tertiary League competition (which is played on a Saturday) simply because it was too hard to back up for work after playing the game.

I'm sure I'm not alone in that view, that it would be sometimes easier to play on a Saturday than a Sunday for many players, and it would win back a number of people if that happened.

Next, what about those people who simply aren't up to the standard? They get lost in our game cause in some competitions there isn't even a reserve grade, let alone anything below that. Senior RU has sometimes upwards to eight grades, and has varying rules the lower the grade to make it easier and less physical the further down one is.

Recreational/ammended versions of Rugby League really need to be considered to expand the player base and especially keep players playing after 25 years old.

 

[c_eagle]

c_eagle, Brisbane's extended population is nowhere near that. If you say that, then we're including the Central Coast and down to the Gong for Sydney's population FFS.

Now, onto another hypothetical - would you really go to a game every fortnight if the Roosters were the only Sydney team and you hated them?

Rubbishing the only league team to smash the 30K attendance average in a season for a long while is ridiculous.

Ha! I go to almost every Roosters' home game .

It's hardly the same though, I've already chosen a club in my city. If the Roosters were the only team because they were the only team, I'd follow them for sure. They'd sell out Aussie Stadium a season in advance too.

 

[dimitri]

Why people stop playing the game is a good question and its one that the code has been quite slow in even attempting to address.

Naturally as people move into full time work, the amount of free time they have generally drops making it difficult for people to play the game. Lets face it, when you commit for a season you are giving up your Tuesdays and Thursday nights, plus usually half of your Saturday or Sunday for training and playing.

Injuries also play a part in making people reluctant to play, especially if the individual works in an industry where their fitness affects their ability to work or not.

So there will be a drop off cause of that, which there is limited amounts that the game can do about it. However personally I feel a lot of the problems are caused by the lack of options for those who can't play A Grade.

In Sydney especially, most A Grade competitions are played on a Sunday, and the standard of football is reasonably high. I know personally for myself, I dropped out of playing in an A Grade competition to move to the Tertiary League competition (which is played on a Saturday) simply because it was too hard to back up for work after playing the game.

I'm sure I'm not alone in that view, that it would be sometimes easier to play on a Saturday than a Sunday for many players, and it would win back a number of people if that happened.

Next, what about those people who simply aren't up to the standard? They get lost in our game cause in some competitions there isn't even a reserve grade, let alone anything below that. Senior RU has sometimes upwards to eight grades, and has varying rules the lower the grade to make it easier and less physical the further down one is.

Recreational/ammended versions of Rugby League really need to be considered to expand the player base and especially keep players playing after 25 years old.

I believe that once people start full time work they move into OzTag

OzTag is growing rapidly and that is because of RL and its popularity

 

[taipan]

Junior Grassroots is a level that Rugby League is making huge inroads in. This year, Rugby League will record participation rates of over 360,000, after breaking the 300,000 mark for the first time EVER in the history of the game last year.

League's like Balmain have more players, teams and participants now than they have had for 30 years, and every league in Sydney has enjoyed growth now for the past 4-5 years.

Looking back in the so called 'Goldern Eras' of Participant, League in 1991 only had 180,000 participants, 1994 had 220,000, 1996 which had 235,000 which was the largest participant numbers till 2002 when the game finally started making big inroads again.

A lot of people are quick to point to the club system and go 'oh look at all the clubs that no longer exist' however that doesn't necessarily mean there is less interest in a particular area. School alligned Rugby League has been a huge growth area for the game in the past 4 - 5 years, and naturally you can only expect this will 'limit' the growth of the clubs, but to the club's credits they have still been growing, so much so participantion in the club scene has also broke its old record participation rate in the last 12 months.

The biggest problem for RL is growing the Senior market.

It has been stuck around the 30K mark now for eight years...

When will the ARL officially announce statistics on junior numbers and growth in all states?
The previous year we got the info in August or thereabouts.Why the delay?

 

[t-ba]

Brisbane = approx 1.5 million. That's about it - and there is nothing wrong with our crowds

:lol:.

1.81 million at the last census estimate. You're only missing 1/6 of the population!