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Lezignan for Championship

yakstorm

First Grade
Messages
5,511
Source: http://www.rugbyleague.com/rugby-league-news/lezignan-en-championship-.html

Apologises if this has been mentioned before, but it appears that Lezignan would like to join the RFL's Championship in the next 3-4 years.

The encouraging thing is, if Toulouse and Paris are promoted to Super League in 2012, we could have the great scenario of four professional French sides.

Even if Paris doesn't succeed, we have already started to see improvements in France since the introduction of Les Catalans, and more improvements again with Toulouse joining the championship. The more French players, playing the better.

And as for those who say there aren't enough talented French players to fill that many teams, well you'll never fill the void, if the void doesn't exist.
 

1 Eyed TEZZA

Coach
Messages
12,420
Hmmm its really starting to frusturate me that France dont have their own pro comp going, and not even a whisper that one could start up.
 

YANTO

Juniors
Messages
799
Source: http://www.rugbyleague.com/rugby-league-news/lezignan-en-championship-.html

Apologises if this has been mentioned before, but it appears that Lezignan would like to join the RFL's Championship in the next 3-4 years.

The encouraging thing is, if Toulouse and Paris are promoted to Super League in 2012, we could have the great scenario of four professional French sides.

Even if Paris doesn't succeed, we have already started to see improvements in France since the introduction of Les Catalans, and more improvements again with Toulouse joining the championship. The more French players, playing the better.

And as for those who say there aren't enough talented French players to fill that many teams, well you'll never fill the void, if the void doesn't exist.

Hmmmmm!!!!
so the English have now to develop France??
Say one two or three PNG,Cook island or Samoan clubs wanted to join the NRL would the Aussies be doing summersaults?
France has to start developing their own professional league and stop depending on the SL (and SKY money) to prop up their clubs.
Lets say in ten years time Germany has twenty amatuer teams would you support Munich and Hamburg into SL ??
Serbia have Red Star and Novi Stad,Czech Republic Sparta Prauge and Slavia Prauge,Holland Feijenoord and Ajax... would you support any of these clubs into a full proffesional ENGLISH competition (or even a semi pro competition such as the Championship)???

A lot of background has to be done into these French clubs before they are admitted into the English (European) competition.....especially if they are to leapfrog over heartland teams such as Widnes,Whitehaven (Cumbria should be a priority :) ) and Halifax.

Lets aim to get more european clubs up to the "lower standard" of French RL which would be a lot more beneficial to the game in the long term than weakening the French divisions buy promoting average French clubs into the English proffesional league.
Less focus on getting 17 guys from various nations onto the field and more effort into getting domestic teams up and running,,,that is the future.

Toulose have not exactly set the championship alight this season.
 
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bender

Juniors
Messages
2,231
Hmmm its really starting to frusturate me that France dont have their own pro comp going, and not even a whisper that one could start up.

What are you talking about, they have had a professional comp for years and years!

The problem is that, like the PNG professional competition or the New Zealand professional competition or any other professional competition outtside of the NRL and ESL, they are not popular enough and do not create enough money to get the top of the range players, although in fairness to the french league, they do regularly get the occassional fringe NRL types.

People seem to think that you can just magically say we are going to go professional, spend millions of dollars and all of a sudden players and spectators will emerge from nowhere. It does not work that way.

The best thing France can do is continue with their development the way they are. Lezignan in the championship would be huge for both player/club improvement. The ideal situation is for the strongest clubs in the French first division to take a step up to NL1 when they are ready. This will help both themselves and NL1. Some French clubs will be too small to make it out of this division and into the ESL, but NL1 has the potential to develo into a pretty huge competition in its own right with average crowds between 2000 and 5000 and eventually fully professional clubs, if the developmentof that competition is handled correctly.
 

bender

Juniors
Messages
2,231
Hmmmmm!!!!
so the English have now to develop France??

How is a French club joining the competition helping to develop France? The french are the ones on the ground running the club still, the French will be needing to largely find their own sponsors and fund their running costs and the French will almost exclusively be playing for the club, presumably with the exception of a few Australian journeymen.

Say one two or three PNG,Cook island or Samoan clubs wanted to join the NRL would the Aussies be doing summersaults?

If they were good enough to be joining the competition in terms of playing strength and finances, i think that they would be doing backflips and somersaults all day! Particularly if the competition they were joining was the QRL. Most people were happy when PNG could actually afford to play in the QRL!

[quote}

France has to start developing their own professional league and stop depending on the SL (and SKY money) to prop up their clubs.
[/quote]

France are trying to prop up their league and it hasnt worked. They have tried a lot of things and none of what they have tried has been as successful as Catalans and to a lesser extent Toulouse. You are dreaming if you think that a glitzy professional competition is suddenly going to appear out of nowhere, or even if it did, that it would instantly improve france to the stage where they can compete with the big 3. For now, there only way forward is in the ESL.
Lets say in ten years time Germany has twenty amatuer teams would you support Munich and Hamburg into SL ??
Serbia have Red Star and Novi Stad,Czech Republic Sparta Prauge and Slavia Prauge,Holland Feijenoord and Ajax... would you support any of these clubs into a full proffesional ENGLISH competition (or even a semi pro competition such as the Championship)???

I think most people would support this 100 per cent, if it was a realistic proposition. Most seem to support Ireland and Scotland (and Wales) sides coming into the competition with the only doubts being doubts on whehter or not they will be successful. Germany, Czech etc are all too far off being succesful. i think the most realistic comparison would be Moscow. IF Spartak Moscow bidded for the ESL and the Russian team had improved to the level of the French and they were competive with most NL1/2 sides in the Challenge Cup, and it was backed by good financial interests, I think that they would get the same welcoming that the French have got.

A lot of background has to be done into these French clubs before they are admitted into the English (European) competition.....especially if they are to leapfrog over heartland teams such as Widnes,Whitehaven (Cumbria should be a priority :) ) and Halifax.
Well no one has suggested Lezignan leapfrogging those heartland teams, have they?

Lets aim to get more european clubs up to the "lower standard" of French RL which would be a lot more beneficial to the game in the long term than weakening the French divisions buy promoting average French clubs into the English proffesional league.

So the English shouldnt add french teams because they shouldnt help out french, but the French should help out the rest of Europe?

Moving Lezignan to NL1 will have no effect on the French league. In fact, if the 4 French teams improve, there is every chance that the spill on/feeder team approach would mean that NL1 would stay roughly where it is quality wise and interest wise. Unlike say the Brisbane league when the Broncos left, if the big 4? are successful it will only improve rugby league all over France and this would in turn lift the profile of the French league, or at least keep it roughly the same. It also would give the smaller clubs the chance to be more competive and therefore build more support, so it isnt as much of a one way street, as it might seem. I see no reason why the existence or non existence of the top 4 french clubs would hinder the likes of Spain,holland etc putting teams in a french league. If anything it might save some thrashings.
Less focus on getting 17 guys from various nations onto the field and more effort into getting domestic teams up and running,,,that is the future.
You are confusing developing nations, with France who have different circumstances and needs. France will still have their own domestic leagues (not league) and this will only help increase and improve this. Totally different to holland, for example.
Toulose have not exactly set the championship alight this season.
Well they didnt finish last, and they were one of the best supported teams in the Championship, so i guess it depends on what your definition about setting alight is. Incidentally, for the record, Lezignan defeated Toulouse the last time they played in the same competition, so regardless of where Toulouse finished, i think it is safe to say that Lezignan would start favourites to finish above them, and that alone would mean that they would be a viable addition to the competition.
 

yakstorm

First Grade
Messages
5,511
Hmmm its really starting to frusturate me that France dont have their own pro comp going, and not even a whisper that one could start up.

France shouldn't even contemplate considering having their own professional competition until they at least have 6 clubs who could afford to go full time professional.

Currently we have Les Catalans and Toulouse who can afford it, Paris showing some interest and Lezignan who are building to it over the next three years.

So we're not even at four yet.

As for this talk of the English game propping up French RL, I think a lot more has been made of this than what is acctually true. Les Catalans are still the only team in Super League who had to pay a fee to join the competition....maybe it should have been something considered for Celtic...
 

bowes

Juniors
Messages
1,320
Moving Lezignan to NL1 will have no effect on the French league.
The French Elite 1 is close to folding due to lack of teams of course it would affect it. Lezignan is very small, so could never support a full time pro team. An Aude regional club on the other hand would be a better idea, though only if the French Elite were going to fold anyway, as otherwise it would be the death knell (although at least would be better than just taking Lezignan out)
 

bender

Juniors
Messages
2,231
The French Elite 1 is close to folding due to lack of teams of course it would affect it. Lezignan is very small, so could never support a full time pro team. An Aude regional club on the other hand would be a better idea, though only if the French Elite were going to fold anyway, as otherwise it would be the death knell (although at least would be better than just taking Lezignan out)
Wouldnt the logical step be to have the Lezignan first team in the NL1 and their reserves (with Cats and Toulouse) playing in the first division. I dont see how this would harm the first division too much.

Lezignan dont need to support a full time pro team, what is wrong with a strong semi pro team in the NL1. We know they can support a semi pro team, because they have done so before. An Aude regional team, might work also.
 

1 Eyed TEZZA

Coach
Messages
12,420
What are you talking about, they have had a professional comp for years and years!.

Wow so touchy.

France shouldn't even contemplate considering having their own professional competition until they at least have 6 clubs who could afford to go full time professional

Here you two fight it out. I get 99% of my info on French RL from this website and I remember when the Yanks were talking of getting their own pro comp started, someone here said "I wish someone in France would think of doing this"
 

bender

Juniors
Messages
2,231
Wow so touchy.



Here you two fight it out. I get 99% of my info on French RL from this website and I remember when the Yanks were talking of getting their own pro comp started, someone here said "I wish someone in France would think of doing this"


Some people differentiate between Pro and "semi-pro".

When most people on this board talk about a professional competition, they mean one where the players all suddenly become full time professionals. I can no longer recall how much each french club currently spends on wages and budget, but from memory the bigger ones used to spend around the million dollar mark. This is professional, by any stretch of the imagination.

People often seem to forget that it isnt that long ago, that the ARL competition was semi professional. I can remember when I think it was penrith or one of the sydney teams made a big deal about them going full time professional and how this was going to make them the dominant team in the ARL, suffice to say, it made virtually no difference.

France dont need a professional competition until they are actually ready for it. Their best bet is to have a limited number of players (like NZ) playing in the ESL and develop the game at grass roots level throughout the rest of the country.

The perfect situation would see Catalans, Toulouse, and a Paris team in the Superleague (and all playing some games in strategic areas), with one or two smaller sides in the National Leagues and a first division with a wide geographical representation. That is all a long way off though.
 

Jankuloski

Juniors
Messages
799
You've hit an interesting point:

Let's say that all of our wildest dreams come true, and RL grows immencely in France - would you want a strong Super League, or a British and a French league?
 

Evil Homer

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
7,178
You've hit an interesting point:

Let's say that all of our wildest dreams come true, and RL grows immencely in France - would you want a strong Super League, or a British and a French league?
Clearly seperate leagues. That has to be the long term goal. Anything else would be ridiculous.
 

bender

Juniors
Messages
2,231
Clearly seperate leagues. That has to be the long term goal. Anything else would be ridiculous.

Well i dont agree with this. A European league would give rugby league something that no other sport currently has with the possible exception of Soccers Champions league.

If the french game was to take off (wildest dreams scenario) you would have say 8 strong French teams, why not play them with the 8 best British Teams to get a very strong ESL. That is going to be worth far more to the game in both countries than two separate leagues would.

I suppose if there were enough teams, you may see a conference type situation with France and Britain, but i think i prefer an out and out European situation, unless the French fans were to vote with their feet ie Larger crowds at all french games. I dont think this would be the case.

Incidentally, I see it as inevitable that we will have "Super Bowl" the week after Grand final, with NOrthern and Southern competitions synchronised. If this happens, it is possible that a French competition could slip their way into this set up.
 

jim_57

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
4,377
I don't like the idea, Toulouse should be running a seconds side in Elite and any team entering Championship from France shouyld have SL asspirations. We should be trying to get Elite back towards Championship level not keep lowering the standard.

Hopefully Elite 1 will get numbers back to keep it alive, Montpelliar, Toulouse (2nds), Paris SF and Lyon will hopefully all be looking for an Elite 1 team in coming years.
 

jim_57

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
4,377
You've hit an interesting point:

Let's say that all of our wildest dreams come true, and RL grows immencely in France - would you want a strong Super League, or a British and a French league?

Conferences would be the way to go in this situation. Say if we ever get 6 French teams we could look at 2 or 3 conferences.

French Conference
Toulouse
Catalans
Lyon
Paris
Montpelliar
Barcelona
Aude

Then throw all other teams, presumably all from the UK in another conference.
 

Evil Homer

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
7,178
Well i dont agree with this. A European league would give rugby league something that no other sport currently has with the possible exception of Soccers Champions league.

If the french game was to take off (wildest dreams scenario) you would have say 8 strong French teams, why not play them with the 8 best British Teams to get a very strong ESL. That is going to be worth far more to the game in both countries than two separate leagues would.

I suppose if there were enough teams, you may see a conference type situation with France and Britain, but i think i prefer an out and out European situation, unless the French fans were to vote with their feet ie Larger crowds at all french games. I dont think this would be the case.

Incidentally, I see it as inevitable that we will have "Super Bowl" the week after Grand final, with NOrthern and Southern competitions synchronised. If this happens, it is possible that a French competition could slip their way into this set up.
Can't explain how strongly the majority of British and French fans would oppose this. There would be absolutely no point, nothing to be gained and masses of money lost through accomodation and flights for 8 teams every week and a lack of travelling support, as well as difficulties with TV rights etc and the fact that the majority of fans will only be able to see half their team's games. By all means the champions of France could play the champions of England, there could be a mini-series between the best teams or whatever but definitely the major league competition should not be a European league. No other sport has it because it is a stupid and unsustainable idea.
 

bender

Juniors
Messages
2,231
Can't explain how strongly the majority of British and French fans would oppose this. There would be absolutely no point, nothing to be gained and masses of money lost through accomodation and flights for 8 teams every week and a lack of travelling support, as well as difficulties with TV rights etc and the fact that the majority of fans will only be able to see half their team's games. By all means the champions of France could play the champions of England, there could be a mini-series between the best teams or whatever but definitely the major league competition should not be a European league. No other sport has it because it is a stupid and unsustainable idea.

Well the majority of French fans havent opposed it. Catalans crowds are basically triple in the ESL, what they have been in the French league. Toulouse will be the same.

Away support is not really important. The goal for every superleague team must be to get their core home support to a stage where the club survives on home support and is nto reliant on away support. Hopefully that will be the case in the not too distant future.
 

Jankuloski

Juniors
Messages
799
As for the travelling expenses, if two neighbouring countries can't support a comp, then we really have problems in this sport. Even the Championship teams can support playing in Toulouse.

I think it should stay the same. It's the only edge we've got over union in Europe.

Until you have more than twenty teams conferences don't make sense - you can still get through the comp with each team playing the other once.

The potential problem I see is the traditional english fans. I don't know how interested they would be to watch a team for France. Sometimes i have the feeling that all they want to see is Bradford, St Helens, Leeds and Wigan play each other every week. But maybe that's the problem - maybe new fans need to be attracted.

All in all it's not going to be an overnight decision - time will tell which is the right way to go. I would just prefer to see a European comp.
 
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