London and Manchester legacy

[Perth Red]

That’s poor.

68k for a GF is outstanding, 64k for a cc final is poor. That’s some logic at play lol

reality is back in the day cc final was the only opportunity for fans to have a big weekend away trip, it drew a lot of neutrals from the north becasue of that.
now we have gf, cc, Perpignan, vegas, magic weekend. It is inevitable the cc final will take a hit from the neutrals. Seems around 64k is now it’s bench mark.

 

[England87]

We are a tiny dying sport in the North, honestly as long as Wembley is atleast half full for big tests and the CC then that is a win at this stage.

 

[jolly boys outing]

68k for a GF is outstanding, 64k for a cc final is poor. That’s some logic at play lol

from regular crowds of 90k in the 80’s and high 70k in the 90’s to low 60k today tells me that it’s on the decline and losts it’s appeal.

reality is back in the day cc final was the only opportunity for fans to have a big weekend away trip, it drew a lot of neutrals from the north becasue of that.
now we have gf, cc, Perpignan, vegas, magic weekend. It is inevitable the cc final will take a hit from the neutrals. Seems around 64k is now its bench mark.

unless we grow the support of the game throughout the UK and spread more fans to all of these events it’s only going to decline even further.

 

[jolly boys outing]

We are a tiny dying sport in the North, honestly as long as Wembley is atleast half full for big tests and the CC then that is a win at this stage.

Time to address this then by re-engaging with lost fans and attracting new ones.

 

[Dark Corner]

Time to address this then by re-engaging with lost fans and attracting new ones.

Not when you got Nigel Wood and his chums involved in the game.

 

[Perth Red]

unless we grow the support of the game throughout the UK and spread more fans to all of these events it’s only going to decline even further.

There’s no sign of that. Part of it is finalist dependent. Hkr v hfc cc final would draw 80k+.

last few years crowds barring covid years

2017 68k
2018 50k (french team)
2019 62k
2023 58k
2024 65k
2025 63k

like I said 60-65k is now a consistent crowd for cc which is not to be sneezed at and is only a little bit lower than the gf.

 

[Taking The Two]

It’s a shame that somewhere like Tottenham isn’t 65-70k as that would be more aesthetically pleasing than a Wembley that is 2/3 full.

The large areas of empty red seats aren’t a great look and does take a little away from the crowd, which is quite reasonable in all honesty.

 

[Perth Red]

It’s a shame that somewhere like Tottenham isn’t 65-70k as that would be more aesthetically pleasing than a Wembley that is 2/3 full.

The large areas of empty red seats aren’t a great look and does take a little away from the crowd, which is quite reasonable in all honesty.

Yep 70k would be ideal for a cc venue, alas we dont have any stadiums of that capacity.

 

[jolly boys outing]

There’s no sign of that. Part of it is finalist dependent. Hkr v hfc cc final would draw 80k+.

last few years crowds barring covid years

2017 68k
2018 50k (french team)
2019 62k
2023 58k
2024 65k
2025 63k

like I said 60-65k is now a consistent crowd for cc which is not to be sneezed at and is only a little bit lower than the gf.

What if sub 60k becomes the norm?

I say give Wembley another decade then review it and alternate it with anfield/etihad if crowds drop even further.

 

[jolly boys outing]

Not when you got Nigel Wood and his chums involved in the game.

The big guy will most likely drive fans away.

 

[Father Gascoigne]

The issue with bidding is how many stadiums are there that can fit 60k+?

Wembley 90,000
Old Trafford 74,000 (new stadium will happen in the next decade at 100,000)
Tottenham 63,000
Anfield 61,000
Emirates 60,000 (exploring ideas to increase to 70,000-80,000)
Etihad 62,000 (works almost complete)
Birmingham 62,000 (could be completed within 5 years' time)
Newcastle redevelopment/new stadium 65,000-70,000)
West Ham 68,000
Chelsea (seeking to expand or rebuild to over 60,000)

There are seven stadiums that can accommodate 60,000+ now/next season, with there likely being 10 over the next decade. I'd also expect Villa and Leeds to seek to push capacity to that level in the future.

Warrington to Newcastle, UK is like 4 hours one way

The only real possibilities for the Super League grand final are Old Trafford, Etihad, a redeveloped Elland Road or one maybe Anfield or Everton

The historical factor for the Challenge cup and Wembley is the "national stadium"

Most European nations have this concept, Australia not quite. It'd seem strange to us

Most European nations have a primate city that dominates all aspects of life, so of course they're going to have national stadiums. They are no different to Australian states in that sense.

The big nations that are like Australia have differing approaches. France and England do have national stadiums, whereas Germany, Italy, Spain, Turkey, Poland, Netherlands, Russia, Ukraine etc don't. England wouldn't have one either if the FA didn't own Wembley.

 

[RL The greatest game]

We are a tiny dying sport in the North, honestly as long as Wembley is atleast half full for big tests and the CC then that is a win at this stage.

Super League needs to get the London Broncos into it as asoon as possible, and with the new owners, getting in quality players wouldn't be a problem

 

[Taking The Two]

Super League needs to get the London Broncos into it as asoon as possible, and with the new owners, getting in quality players wouldn't be a problem

With the way the game is going here, all they’ll need to do is win the Championship rather than satisfy the IMG criteria as well and that could well be easily achievable. Without York, Bradford and Toulouse, it’s only really Oldham that are likely to challenge in 2026.

 

[Perth Red]

Super League needs to get the London Broncos into it as asoon as possible, and with the new owners, getting in quality players wouldn't be a problem

Super league has had London in it for 27 years with rich backers. They are nice to have (if the latest attempt can achieve something others haven’t) but aren’t the make or break of the sport in England.

 

[jason taylor]

Super league has had London in it for 27 years with rich backers. They are nice to have (if the latest attempt can achieve something others haven’t) but aren’t the make or break of the sport in England.

Still very early days, but the new marketing does look slick, and the couple of new signings they've announced since confirmation of their status for next year bodes well. Having a rich backer is one thing, but so far they're giving the impression that they are actually coupling the money with the nous of running a professional sports organisation.

I think the sport does need a strong London presence - if only for youth development, which is an area the Broncos have done pretty well in, even if those players go off to play at other teams. Plus growing the sport in London will add attendance to showpiece events like the Challenge Cup and international tests. Just because they haven't excelled doesn't mean they should be written off. It would be akin to suggesting that the Gold Coast Titans should be relocated because the various Gold Coast sport franchises (not just rugby league but also A League etc) have never proven particularly successful.

 

[Father Gascoigne]

Still very early days, but the new marketing does look slick, and the couple of new signings they've announced since confirmation of their status for next year bodes well. Having a rich backer is one thing, but so far they're giving the impression that they are actually coupling the money with the nous of running a professional sports organisation.

I think the sport does need a strong London presence - if only for youth development, which is an area the Broncos have done pretty well in, even if those players go off to play at other teams. Plus growing the sport in London will add attendance to showpiece events like the Challenge Cup and international tests. Just because they haven't excelled doesn't mean they should be written off. It would be akin to suggesting that the Gold Coast Titans should be relocated because the various Gold Coast sport franchises (not just rugby league but also A League etc) have never proven particularly successful.

I don't see the parallel between London and the Gold Coast. The Gold Coast is in Queensland, one of three rugby league epicentres in the world. If it can't work there, the sport is in serious trouble.

The best parallel we can make with London is Melbourne. But when you look at it an inch below surface level, you realise why even that is a fruitless endeavour.

Melbourne has the benefit of being located inside a country where major media companies treat rugby league as a crown jewel. They do so because they make serious money from backing it, which they can only do because there is a large audience for it, notably in NSW and Queensland. This gives the game a base from which it can influence cities outside its heartland. None of this is applicable to London; quite the opposite in fact.

Further, the Storm's association as a member club of the NRL--with all the brand awareness that confers--is not and will never be comparable to London. Melbourne also has the benefit of migration patterns that favour rugby league. And the city's team has benefitted greatly from perennial success since its inception.

Hoping that London can replicate Melbourne given time and resources is only going to lead to disappointment I feel. London is a decentralised city, meaning resources spent are confined to specific boroughs. It also has long-established sporting preferences, not dissimilar to Melbourne. The key difference is that England doesn't have an equivalent to NSW/Queensland from which to exert influence.

People have been talking about the importance of London for longer than I've been alive I'm led to believe, and it's gotten nowhere in that time. I suspect you have to be young to retain optimism. I can almost guarantee that 30 years from now people will still be talking about how important London is to the game and how success is only 'good marketing' away from reality.

 

[jason taylor]

I don't see the parallel between London and the Gold Coast. The Gold Coast is in Queensland, one of three rugby league epicentres in the world. If it can't work there, the sport is in serious trouble.

The best parallel we can make with London is Melbourne. But when you look at it an inch below surface level, you realise why even that is a fruitless endeavour.

Melbourne has the benefit of being located inside a country where major media companies treat rugby league as a crown jewel. They do so because they make serious money from backing it, which they can only do because there is a large audience for it, notably in NSW and Queensland. This gives the game a base from which it can influence cities outside its heartland. None of this is applicable to London; quite the opposite in fact.

Further, the Storm's association as a member club of the NRL--with all the brand awareness that confers--is not and will never be comparable to London. Melbourne also has the benefit of migration patterns that favour rugby league. And the city's team has benefitted greatly from perennial success since its inception.

Hoping that London can replicate Melbourne given time and resources is only going to lead to disappointment I feel. London is a decentralised city, meaning resources spent are confined to specific boroughs. It also has long-established sporting preferences, not dissimilar to Melbourne. The key difference is that England doesn't have an equivalent to NSW/Queensland from which to exert influence.

People have been talking about the importance of London for longer than I've been alive I'm led to believe, and it's gotten nowhere in that time. I suspect you have to be young to retain optimism. I can almost guarantee that 30 years from now people will still be talking about how important London is to the game and how success is only 'good marketing' away from reality.

Having lived in Melbourne for 12 years, I have to disagree with your assessment. Storm’s position is purely based on their consistent results as a champion team and consistent ownership and financial backing since their inception, but even then, they rarely make a broader impact in the minds of the general Melbourne/Victorian sports fan. They’ve done little to grow the game in the state and the size of their fanbase is out of touch with how successful on the pitch they’ve always been. They’re only changing that now, finally re-orientating their investment in the Sunshine Coast to Victoria (I mean up until recently they owned a netball team on the Sunshine Coast). Plus coverage in Victorian traditional media until more recently has been near non-existence (even then it hasn’t improved that much)

Funnily enough, London through their academy has almost produced as many NRL players as Melbourne in thirty years (Kai Pearce Paul and Dan Sarginson off the top of my head), not to mention the many super league players.

My view isn’t that “London can replicate Melbourne”, or become the dominant sports in the capital - it’s that there’s clear room for growth that has been botched due to lack of consistent vision and resources, which is exemplified by the constant changes in stadium and the botched rebranding.

 

[jolly boys outing]

Can we now add Liverpool to the RL legacy of cities list after the 52k that attended the 2nd ashes test on Saturday gone?

would be such a shame to have no follow up in a city that had just attracted a 52k+ crowd over the weekend.

 

[Taking The Two]

There’s going to be no follow up. We’ve binned Magic for an extra week of the playoffs, so we can’t take that there, and the earliest England will play in England again (after next week) is 2027.

 

[Perth Red]

Can we now add Liverpool to the RL legacy of cities list after the 52k that attended the 2nd ashes test on Saturday gone?

would be such a shame to have no follow up in a city that had just attracted a 52k+ crowd over the weekend.

You do realise 95% of the crowd werent from Liverpool dont you? Not many scouse accents in the stadium lol