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Main reason why top end changes are needed (Tigers)

tiger_nick

Bench
Messages
2,972
In another article in the Tele today Sheens 'threatens' to take his coaching staff with him if there's anymore dramas.

It's funny to think that he thinks that's a threat.

jesus christ, next thing he'll threaten to take john morris and shannon mcdonnell with him!!
 

Magpies Forever

Juniors
Messages
2,208
Thats fine- of we loose this week (if??????) the excuse will be the disruption with horrible Longmuir vs kind, all wise, mentor Teflon Tim & his band of merry men
 

meltiger

First Grade
Messages
6,268
For suggesting that Te'o was sh*t, or that Harrison was poorly coached?

Who knew Harrison had what he's showing now, he never showed them in a Wests Tigers jersey. But it's quite obvious now that he wasn't allowed to.


You wouldn't have seen a great deal of him at that age, but anyone who watched considerable amount of Bronson as a junior knows he always had it. Bronson made the jump up grades at a younger age than the Robbie's, Dene's etc did.


Sheens was playing Bronson out of position. Plain and simple mate.


Soon as the Kiwis played him IN position during the WC, we saw what he was capable of.
 
Messages
42,652
You wouldn't have seen a great deal of him at that age, but anyone who watched considerable amount of Bronson as a junior knows he always had it. Bronson made the jump up grades at a younger age than the Robbie's, Dene's etc did.


Sheens was playing Bronson out of position. Plain and simple mate.


Soon as the Kiwis played him IN position during the WC, we saw what he was capable of.

Harrison was as good as a wash out for us, but as you say that was probably more to do with coaching than talent. I can't say I wish he was still with us because he would still be under the same coaching that stopped him from going forward.

By the way, being great at juniors - prem league doesn't mean a success at FG. The most dominant lower grader I ever saw was a bloke named Shaun Devine.
 

westie

Bench
Messages
3,936
Harrison showed his ability in FG, just as Te'o has. The problem is consistency. Whether or not you chose/choose to notice this is up to you. They both will make us regret it, just as many other second rowers have (see Kangaroos O'Donnell and Laffranchi)
 

TimmyB

Juniors
Messages
2,332
Excluding O'Donnell and Laffranchi, who are the many others?

Patterson, Manu and De Gois (After all, I remember you ridiculing Sheens for moving De Gois from lock to hooker).
 
Messages
42,652
Harrison showed his ability in FG, just as Te'o has. The problem is consistency. Whether or not you chose/choose to notice this is up to you. They both will make us regret it, just as many other second rowers have (see Kangaroos O'Donnell and Laffranchi)

Te'o showed promise, but not a lot else. He won't make us regret anything because he has no ticker.

Harrison has gone from a benchie/prop who was decent to one of the form forwards in the comp. that decision is being regretted now, just not by the people who matter.

O'Donnell isn't missed by me.
 

yappy

Bench
Messages
4,161
Excluding O'Donnell and Laffranchi, who are the many others?

Patterson, Manu and De Gois (After all, I remember you ridiculing Sheens for moving De Gois from lock to hooker).

Isaac has made a great fist of hooker because he's a champ. Doesn't mean he wouldn't be even better at lock. He was a freak for us at Ball and Flegg level running wider and putting his outside men away. There was a while in Flegg 03 when Collis had 5 tries or something in the first three games. De Gois gave the last pass for every one of them. Obviously ball playing locks aren't the go much any more but I still believe that skillful players like that in 13 are a real asset.
 

westie

Bench
Messages
3,936
Isaac has made a great fist of hooker because he's a champ. Doesn't mean he wouldn't be even better at lock. He was a freak for us at Ball and Flegg level running wider and putting his outside men away. There was a while in Flegg 03 when Collis had 5 tries or something in the first three games. De Gois gave the last pass for every one of them. Obviously ball playing locks aren't the go much any more but I still believe that skillful players like that in 13 are a real asset.


Couldn't say it much better myself.

Manu, Laffranchi, O'Donnell.

Only the world class Ellis comes close to these guys. The other guys in our pack should be shivering in their boots and asking for autographs when these three turn up. They all offer far more in 5 mins of football than the rest of our second row do in a season.
 

TimmyB

Juniors
Messages
2,332
Isaac has made a great fist of hooker because he's a champ. Doesn't mean he wouldn't be even better at lock. He was a freak for us at Ball and Flegg level running wider and putting his outside men away. There was a while in Flegg 03 when Collis had 5 tries or something in the first three games. De Gois gave the last pass for every one of them. Obviously ball playing locks aren't the go much any more but I still believe that skillful players like that in 13 are a real asset.

Likewise his success as a lock in reserve grade doesn't mean he would make a super lock at first grade level. To my mind, a guy De Gois' size is never going to make it as a first grade lock. The lock's job is not to ball play. Hell, 5/8s don't even ball play. De Gois has been at 3 clubs now and none of them have seen him as a lock. I think that says a lot.

Noone will deny O'Donnell was a huge loss. Having said that, it's pretty clear why the club's patience with him was wearing thin. There's no guarantee that if he'd stayed at the club he would have succeeded. I'm a firm believer that there are times where a player needs a change of club to succeed. Even with O'Donnell, he's really only had two big seasons anyway. Given he was in the GF team we beat, I'm not so sure he made us regret anything.

As for Manu, no doubt he's gone on to bigger and better things in England. However, he never proved himself in the NRL. I'm not saying the ESL is a lower standard, but the game is undeniably different. There is certainly a style of player who succeeds over there who has a bit more trouble here. Think Solomona and Lauittiti. Facts are he had two largely unsuccessful seasons following his departure from us. How much time were we expected to give him? And who's to say he would ever have succeeded anyway?

As for Laffranchi, it was an awful and unforgivable decision to let him go. No bones about that. He should have been picked for Australia in 2005.
 

westie

Bench
Messages
3,936
I suppose that's more a question of tactics now isn't it. Most of us who wanted him at lock would also rather see a more attacking game of football. Like most players, he's had a lot of the flair coached out of him, while focusing on his natural aggression and tackling ability.
 

TimmyB

Juniors
Messages
2,332
I think if you look through the history of the game you wouldn't find that many ball playing locks anyway. Facts remain, you criticised Sheens for ruining De Gois, when undoubtedly moving to hooker has been to the advantage of his first grade career.

Thanks for answering the rest of the post.
 

westie

Bench
Messages
3,936
He has moved on to other coaches who I'd quite happily criticise for game plans and tactics. Stuart's boring negative tactics most definitely cost us the world cup (despite his intensity being a massive positive) and is cruelly the Sharks now they've lost Kearney. What he wouldn't give for a bit of ball playing at that club now.

As an after thought - It's undeniable that he's also a better forward than Heighington and definitely Halatau, without his ball-playing ability. Add that in and you have a very decent footballer. Unfortunately, like many talents these days, FG has coached the flair and excitement of him in favour of a good completion rate and high tackle count.
 
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