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Mary contract extension talks start

Dragonslayer

First Grade
Messages
6,920
It is interesting reading the comments on this thread. There are some who argue quite well the virtues of McGregor and there are those who argue very well the downside of McGregor. And yes there are those who post just for notoriety and have baseless comments and we all know who they are.

I think the key stat for McGregor is the win-loss ratio which sits at 51%. After 4 years in charge this has not moved significantly enough to warrant any talk of extension. To understand this you have to look at how we have started every season under his tutelage. Without being pedantic we normally are up around the 80% mark. The latter half of the seasons past we run at around the 20% mark. What happens is anyone's guess, fatigue, overconfidence or even a few injuries here and there don't equate to such a dramatic fall. The explanation lies and how a game plan is made and weather it is flexible enough 2 change with every game. Once an opposition reads our game plan it becomes quite easy to defend. Our coach cannot switch game plans that's the biggest problem with his style and method. I would also add McGregor is a game watcher, not a game manager as evident from the use of the bench. There is also the talk that he allows players to choose themselves each week rather than demanding players take a rest and recuperate from injuries.

Does McGregor deserve an extension at this point in time, that's a resounding no and no hyperbole would justify that. But management works on a hit and head buried in the sand approach. They know it will not be popular but they will rely on the fact that we the supporters I just like lemmings it will all follow in line eventually. If McGregor is the only candidate available then there is no hurry to push the button so fast even wait until seasons end will not make any difference.
 

George Dragon

Juniors
Messages
1,713
It is interesting reading the comments on this thread. There are some who argue quite well the virtues of McGregor and there are those who argue very well the downside of McGregor. And yes there are those who post just for notoriety and have baseless comments and we all know who they are.

I think the key stat for McGregor is the win-loss ratio which sits at 51%. After 4 years in charge this has not moved significantly enough to warrant any talk of extension. To understand this you have to look at how we have started every season under his tutelage. Without being pedantic we normally are up around the 80% mark. The latter half of the seasons past we run at around the 20% mark. What happens is anyone's guess, fatigue, overconfidence or even a few injuries here and there don't equate to such a dramatic fall. The explanation lies and how a game plan is made and weather it is flexible enough 2 change with every game. Once an opposition reads our game plan it becomes quite easy to defend. Our coach cannot switch game plans that's the biggest problem with his style and method. I would also add McGregor is a game watcher, not a game manager as evident from the use of the bench. There is also the talk that he allows players to choose themselves each week rather than demanding players take a rest and recuperate from injuries.

Does McGregor deserve an extension at this point in time, that's a resounding no and no hyperbole would justify that. But management works on a hit and head buried in the sand approach. They know it will not be popular but they will rely on the fact that we the supporters I just like lemmings it will all follow in line eventually. If McGregor is the only candidate available then there is no hurry to push the button so fast even wait until seasons end will not make any difference.
Overall record and picture is important.
You don't just re sign him because we beat Broncos as some have said.
If we had lost one more game in the season there was a good chance he would of been sacked. How does one more win make him a good coach.
 

2010

Bench
Messages
3,490
It is interesting reading the comments on this thread. There are some who argue quite well the virtues of McGregor and there are those who argue very well the downside of McGregor. And yes there are those who post just for notoriety and have baseless comments and we all know who they are.

I think the key stat for McGregor is the win-loss ratio which sits at 51%. After 4 years in charge this has not moved significantly enough to warrant any talk of extension. To understand this you have to look at how we have started every season under his tutelage. Without being pedantic we normally are up around the 80% mark. The latter half of the seasons past we run at around the 20% mark. What happens is anyone's guess, fatigue, overconfidence or even a few injuries here and there don't equate to such a dramatic fall. The explanation lies and how a game plan is made and weather it is flexible enough 2 change with every game. Once an opposition reads our game plan it becomes quite easy to defend. Our coach cannot switch game plans that's the biggest problem with his style and method. I would also add McGregor is a game watcher, not a game manager as evident from the use of the bench. There is also the talk that he allows players to choose themselves each week rather than demanding players take a rest and recuperate from injuries.

Does McGregor deserve an extension at this point in time, that's a resounding no and no hyperbole would justify that. But management works on a hit and head buried in the sand approach. They know it will not be popular but they will rely on the fact that we the supporters I just like lemmings it will all follow in line eventually. If McGregor is the only candidate available then there is no hurry to push the button so fast even wait until seasons end will not make any difference.
Agree 100%. If a coach uses the same plan every game then our opponents adjust to counter that.
McIdiot needs to look at each game separately. He needs to focus on what is needed to counter the opposition’s strength and select his team based on what is needed to nullify the opposition strength.
He should also need to select a team based on a players form, he needs to lose his good guy mentality and make some harsh decisions.
Of course the big picture is that he needs to improve his handling of the bench which has been terrible.
 

LINESPEED

Juniors
Messages
1,551
Agree 100%. If a coach uses the same plan every game then our opponents adjust to counter that.
McIdiot needs to look at each game separately. He needs to focus on what is needed to counter the opposition’s strength and select his team based on what is needed to nullify the opposition strength.
He should also need to select a team based on a players form, he needs to lose his good guy mentality and make some harsh decisions.
Of course the big picture is that he needs to improve his handling of the bench which has been terrible.

Based on his intransigence & failure to develop over 5 years, I’m afraid that he sadly exhibits a total lack of footy smarts & intelligence to do the above.
His team sheets are OCD territory - to put it mildly.
 

Old Kogarah Boy 1

First Grade
Messages
5,415
Agree 100%. If a coach uses the same plan every game then our opponents adjust to counter that.
McIdiot needs to look at each game separately. He needs to focus on what is needed to counter the opposition’s strength and select his team based on what is needed to nullify the opposition strength.
He should also need to select a team based on a players form, he needs to lose his good guy mentality and make some harsh decisions.
Of course the big picture is that he needs to improve his handling of the bench which has been terrible.

Plan A + Plan A = Plan A
Or
Plan A + Plan AA = Plan AAA
Or
Plan A - Plan AAA + Plan AA = Plan A

Doesn't matter which way you work it, everything ends up with Plan A.

McGregor is 100% correct!
 

Life's Good

Coach
Messages
13,971
Overall record and picture is important.
You don't just re sign him because we beat Broncos as some have said.
If we had lost one more game in the season there was a good chance he would of been sacked. How does one more win make him a good coach.
Well put. There was a very real possibility that we were going to be bounced out of the T8 in 2018. Given the floggings we copped at the hands of the Dogs & Parramatta I would not have been concerned if we did miss out because it may have lead to his sacking. Yet here we are with word filtering out that an extension is on the cards on the back of a single finals win. Beggars belief that this cycle of mediocrity seems set to continue.
 

gitano

Juniors
Messages
2,257
Souths only scored the one try .. leilua was called out as offside - he backpedaled and that opened the gap. In hindsight should have conceded the penalty but the ref was in his ear.

The big issue with Leilua is the same as always - no idea how to actually use him in attack. He had the one possession. He is a bloke that could bust open a game with ball and support but he has never been utilised to his potential and that is all on game plan.

Hunt at 7, Mann at 12, Field at 6 is nightmare kind of stuff .. probably never occurred and will never happen again - but that speaks volumes about how Field has been developed over 2 years by Mary. Throw an effective stranger into the death of a do or die game and expect combinations to work. Yeah right. Poor bench/team selection management over 26 rounds coming back to bite us.

Injuries hurt us but only because the team was ill prepared and ill equipped to deal with them. Bench management and player rotation into the 17 week in week out gets a squad ready. Mary doesnt deal with squad - he deals with 17 and only when one of those 17 is out does he consider the future and only the very immediate one.
Field was a great selection and had Mann passed, he scores under the sticks.

Take it from me, big games are won by big moments. Most of the time not from structure, or set plays but eyes up footy. Field was an inspired selection.
 

muzby

Village Idiot
Staff member
Messages
44,167
Field was a great selection and had Mann passed, he scores under the sticks.

Take it from me, big games are won by big moments. Most of the time not from structure, or set plays but eyes up footy. Field was an inspired selection.
as much as it sucks that we lost, how f**king intense was the end of that game....

i miss that kind of excitement... may we have more of it this year...

with us winning, of course..
 

gitano

Juniors
Messages
2,257
as much as it sucks that we lost, how f**king intense was the end of that game....

i miss that kind of excitement... may we have more of it this year...

with us winning, of course..
It was unreal, albeit hard to watch at the time. It's that sort of game and spectacle that brings new fans into the game, and slowly drags them away from playing Fortnite for 15 hours a day.

Unfortunately though, it's 60k empty seats and pretty void of atmosphere most of the time.
 

denis preston

First Grade
Messages
5,538
It is interesting reading the comments on this thread. There are some who argue quite well the virtues of McGregor and there are those who argue very well the downside of McGregor. And yes there are those who post just for notoriety and have baseless comments and we all know who they are.

I think the key stat for McGregor is the win-loss ratio which sits at 51%. After 4 years in charge this has not moved significantly enough to warrant any talk of extension. To understand this you have to look at how we have started every season under his tutelage. Without being pedantic we normally are up around the 80% mark. The latter half of the seasons past we run at around the 20% mark. What happens is anyone's guess, fatigue, overconfidence or even a few injuries here and there don't equate to such a dramatic fall. The explanation lies and how a game plan is made and weather it is flexible enough 2 change with every game. Once an opposition reads our game plan it becomes quite easy to defend. Our coach cannot switch game plans that's the biggest problem with his style and method. I would also add McGregor is a game watcher, not a game manager as evident from the use of the bench. There is also the talk that he allows players to choose themselves each week rather than demanding players take a rest and recuperate from injuries.

Does McGregor deserve an extension at this point in time, that's a resounding no and no hyperbole would justify that. But management works on a hit and head buried in the sand approach. They know it will not be popular but they will rely on the fact that we the supporters I just like lemmings it will all follow in line eventually. If McGregor is the only candidate available then there is no hurry to push the button so fast even wait until seasons end will not make any difference.

Great observation DS. Explains a lot about his deficiencies as a coach.
 

matPORTS

Juniors
Messages
400
When people know and understand they are out of their depth their natural tendencies and instincts are directed towards survival. McGregor will always coach conservatively because that is all he knows how to do. He will only promote youth as a last resort because it might not fit his survival agenda.

McGregor is probably paid around the $400K mark I would have thought? Not bad for some-one unqualified and unsuccessful in a very high profile position. If I was McGregor I would not be walking the plank either; you would have to push me and pay me on the way out. McGregor is not stupid enough to understand that this is his first and last 1st grade coaching gig. After us, he disappears into the ether never to be seen again.

The problem with McGregor rests 100% with the Board. Simple as that. We were all hopeful after the WIN buy-out of new dawn of professional accountability. And what have we got? The same old routine. We will need to bottom out completely for the Board to dump McGregor and I think (unfortunately) this is the year where it falls apart. I have said before that with the JDB "situation" ; our captain wanting out; speculation swirling about Dufty and the yet to be seen success of integrating a wild child (Norman) will see us crash and burn.

Unless we finish well down the ladder (and I am predicting 12th - 16th), McGregor and his supporting cast of clowns will stay put. In the words of Paul Keating in the 1990's..."this is the season we need to have".

Great opinions and observations here.

I'd also like to add that continued scrutiny over Ben Hunt will also be a factor which Mary needs to manage effectively. This was a big fail on his part last year. As others have pointed out, Ben is our most significant signing in years, and I don't think it was fair that he copped most of the blame (in the media and through outspoken opposing fans) for the way the team played and how our form dipped. The best coaches are masters at shifting attention away from the playing group in front of the media. In fact, it's all part of being an effective 'man manger' in every sense, not just in footy... this is one of his major short-comings "oh it's not my fault".

Unless his skills around man management and game planning have suddenly enhanced in the past 3-4 months, we should be taking a 'watch and act' approach to any potential re-signing.

Unfortunately, under the current regime, we will only ever be a 'middle of the road' team. We'll continually be told things like "oh try being a Parramatta supporter" (lol - living near Eels territory I can't have pub conversations about Mary without copping this one liner).
 

BLM01

First Grade
Messages
6,445
Great opinions and observations here.

I'd also like to add that continued scrutiny over Ben Hunt will also be a factor which Mary needs to manage effectively. This was a big fail on his part last year. As others have pointed out, Ben is our most significant signing in years, and I don't think it was fair that he copped most of the blame (in the media and through outspoken opposing fans) for the way the team played and how our form dipped. The best coaches are masters at shifting attention away from the playing group in front of the media. In fact, it's all part of being an effective 'man manger' in every sense, not just in footy... this is one of his major short-comings "oh it's not my fault".

Unless his skills around man management and game planning have suddenly enhanced in the past 3-4 months, we should be taking a 'watch and act' approach to any potential re-signing.

Unfortunately, under the current regime, we will only ever be a 'middle of the road' team. We'll continually be told things like "oh try being a Parramatta supporter" (lol - living near Eels territory I can't have pub conversations about Mary without copping this one liner).

Partly agree with you but you cant stop the media especially into how much air time, spotlight and print media goes into Origin.
And Ben Hunt's criticism started from Origin 1 and that last 15 minutes of that game and his failure to ice situations and apply pressure when needed. Mind you he was not alone..but his reported 1.2 mill salary a year as got under the skin off most media and they wont let that ridiculous figure go or rest.

But one thing in defense of Mary...he did go into bat for Ben Hunt in front of the media endorsing his standing in our club, not much he could of done about the hoopla and wash up of Origin 1 to stop the hysteria.

The media still bang on about 1.2 mill a year for Ben Hunt today in some circles which they are holding onto and using that to their advantage and applying the blow torch.

The club in the beginning should of kyboshed that if the speculation is untrue and if Millward's reported Hunt is on about 950K a year, then that sort of speculation should of been leaked and rammed home a bit more which is a more reasonable salary (still a bit high) for a good half these days and he would of been left alone.
I do note now some media outlets report Hunt is on a 6 year deal for 6 mill which is closer to the truth as he has a 6th year option in his favour.
But never let the facts get in the way of clickbait which the media love.

Bottom line of all this...in this situation our club and its reluctance in being forthright and on the front foot with the media is the big issue..not Mary. His hands are tied.
Our media managers handling of situations and closed shop attitude are a disgrace to its supporters, club and players in itself.
 
Last edited:
Messages
2,856
Given the hidings we copped from the Bulldogs and Parra towards the end of the season, L Plate should have been dismissed at the end of last season.

The performances were simply unacceptable.

The suggestion that the Field selection was inspired is incorrect.

Field was not seriously considered at all in 2018 and was only played at the end of the season when we had no other options.

He could of easily been used as the super sub if indeed L Plate had a plan B.
 

grouch

First Grade
Messages
8,393
Feel free to copy and paste this in your emails to the club.
.............


Rumour has it that the St George Illawarra Dragons are poised to extend the contract of Paul “Mary” McGregor by three years, which will make him the longest-serving coach in the history of St George, Illawarra and St.George Illawarra.

Roy Masters (St George) 162 games
Nathan Brown (St George Illawarra) 151 games
Ken Kearney (St George) 141 games
David Waite (Stg and Stgi) 129 games
Harry Bath (St George) 118 games
Brian Smith (St George) 118 games
Paul McGregor (St George Illawarra) 114 games*
Graham Murray (Illawarra) 91 games

McGregor is the only coach listed to have NOT reach at least a preliminary final, while 4 of the coaches have made grand finals, with 2 winning them. Of the coaches listed above, McGregor has the lowest winning percentage, with just 50.9%.


One might ask: why would St George Illawarra extend his contract? Let’s go through the likely answers to that question Dragons HQ will come up with, as well as proof they are rubbish.


He’s achieved great results so far and is an elite coach.

When Steve Price was sacked after round 10 of 2014, the Dragons sat in equal 11th (13th due to for & against) two competition points outside the top 8. His assistant, Paul McGregor elevated into the top job and steered the team to 7 wins and 7 losses, including a 10-40 thrashing in the final round, to finish in outright 11th place, four points outside the top 8.
Since then he has had 4 full NRL seasons as head coach, with 2 top 8 finishes and 1 finals win, and as mentioned, a winning percentage of just 50.9%.

Recent coaches with 4+ years experience with only one or less finals wins are: Jason Taylor, Neil Henry, John Cartwright, Anthony Griffin, Stephen Kearney and Brad Arthur. That is not elite company. On the flipside, Craig Bellamy and Trent Robinson both won 5 finals matches in their first 4 years of coaching, and Paul Green won 8. The last coach to win a premiership having won 1 or less finals games in their first 4 years of coaching was Chris Anderson in 1995 – however he was dealing with a 5 team finals series (and he made a grand final in year 5, and won the comp in year 6).


McGregor has put together a strong squad of players.

He's certainly working with a much stronger squad than his predecessor. However, he deserves no credit for that, as the recruitment duties were quite publicly stripped from him in late 2016 and handed to Ian Millward.


The players are loyal to McGregor.

Aside from Gareth Widdop, the club captain no less, leaving the club mid-contract under McGregor’s tenure, he has also seen big name players Josh Dugan and Trent Merrin (among others) leave the club in his time.


Rival clubs may poach him.

This may be somewhat a subjective point, but, it seems incredibly unlikely another club will attempt to steal him from the Dragons. The bulk of NRL clubs are committed to their coaches for beyond next year, with the remainder (at a glance Bulldogs, Newcastle, Warriors and Gold Coast) employing coaches of similar career stature to McGregor currently. They’d be replacing like with like.

In addition to that, McGregor has never been employed anywhere else in the NRL. He has no experience of organisations outside of Illawarra or St George Illawarra. Played his entire career with the one NRL club, and has spent his entire off-field career with the one NRL club – beginning with a training and conditional role under Nathan Brown, before returning as an assistant under Steve Price (he went back to a local Wollongong club in the Bennett years). Every single coach currently employed in the NRL has some form of experience at a different NRL club, be it playing or in an assistant role. It is almost an unwritten prerequisite of being a coach. Now, there is a notable exception to this rule in Geoff Toovey, who did guide Manly to a grand final. However, it’s also worth noting that aside from a gig with the relegated Bradford Bulls in England, he has not been engaged by any other clubs since.


Recruitment stability. Incoming players want to know the coaching situation is stable.

This is a difficult one to categorically disprove, as it is a myth that is widely believed in across the league, and the reason why many coaches are sacked (or advised they will not be renewed) at the very latest halfway through their final season.

However there are two pieces of evidence that provide a sufficient counter to this myth.

1. There are many examples that show players recruited by a sacked coach have no problem staying at their new club under a different coach. Dane Gagai signed by Michael Maguire in June 2017, Maguire sacked in September 2017. Jai Arrow was signed by Neil Henry but didn’t play a single game under him, yet became a rep player under Garth Brennan. Api Koroisau was signed by Geoff Toovey and never played under him. Tautau Moga was signed by Neil Henry at Nth Qld, he spent 3 seasons in Townsville coached by Paul Green. The list could keep going. I present these merely as evidence that a coach change has, in reality, minimal effect on new recruits. If a coach change has minimal effect, then a coach under a cloud would be the same.

2. The Dragons recruitment situation for 2019 appears settled. Only fringe or young players are coming off contract, and no big names. Gareth Widdop has already been ostensibly replaced by Corey Norman, so one would assume the main recruit would likely be a fullback. There are no fullbacks on what you’d refer to as marquee (Widdop-style) money coming off contract in 2019 (the closest would be perhaps Gutherson from Parramatta and he’s a stretch), so you’d likely have that money available for an up and coming, potentially untried fullback . In that case, it’s safe to assume the player is moving clubs for a combination of the first grade opportunity, and the first grade pay packet. Head coach status would be well down the list.


In summary, there is no good reason to extend McGregor’s contract right now, if ever.
 
Last edited:

Old Kogarah Boy 1

First Grade
Messages
5,415
Feel free to copy and paste this in your emails to the club.
.............


Rumour has it that the St George Illawarra Dragons are poised to extend the contract of Paul “Mary” McGregor by three years, which will make him the longest-serving coach in the history of St George, Illawarra and St.George Illawarra.

Roy Masters (St George) 162 games
Nathan Brown (St George Illawarra) 151 games
Ken Kearney (St George) 141 games
David Waite (Stg and Stgi) 129 games
Harry Bath (St George) 118 games
Brian Smith (St George) 118 games
Paul McGregor (St George Illawarra) 114 games*
Graham Murray (Illawarra) 91 games

McGregor is the only coach listed to have NOT reach at least a preliminary final, while 4 of the coaches have made grand finals, with 2 winning them. Of the coaches listed above, McGregor has the lowest winning percentage, with just 50.9%.


One might ask: why would St George Illawarra extend his contract? Let’s go through the likely answers to that question Dragons HQ will come up with, as well as proof they are rubbish.


He’s achieved great results so far and is an elite coach.

When Steve Price was sacked after round 10 of 2014, the Dragons sat in equal 11th (13th due to for & against) two competition points outside the top 8. His assistant, Paul McGregor elevated into the top job and steered the team to 7 wins and 7 losses, including a 10-40 thrashing in the final round, to finish in outright 11th place, four points outside the top 8.
Since then he has had 4 full NRL seasons as head coach, with 2 top 8 finishes and 1 finals win, and as mentioned, a winning percentage of just 50.9%.

Recent coaches with 4+ years experience with only one or less finals wins are: Jason Taylor, Neil Henry, John Cartwright, Anthony Griffin, Stephen Kearney and Brad Arthur. That is not elite company. On the flipside, Craig Bellamy and Trent Robinson both won 5 finals matches in their first 4 years of coaching, and Paul Green won 8. The last coach to win a premiership having won 1 or less finals games in their first 4 years of coaching was Chris Anderson in 1995 – however he was dealing with a 5 team finals series (and he made a grand final in year 5, and won the comp in year 6).


McGregor has put together a strong squad of players.

He's certainly working with a much stronger squad than his predecessor. However, he deserves no credit for that, as the recruitment duties were quite publicly stripped from him in late 2016 and handed to Ian Millward.


The players are loyal to McGregor.

Aside from Gareth Widdop, the club captain no less, leaving the club mid-contract under McGregor’s tenure, he has also seen big name players Josh Dugan and Trent Merrin (among others) leave the club in his time.


Rival clubs may poach him.

This may be somewhat a subjective point, but, it seems incredibly unlikely another club will attempt to steal him from the Dragons. The bulk of NRL clubs are committed to their coaches for beyond next year, with the remainder (at a glance Bulldogs, Newcastle, Warriors and Gold Coast) employing coaches of similar career stature to McGregor currently. They’d be replacing like with like.

In addition to that, McGregor has never been employed anywhere else in the NRL. He has no experience of organisations outside of Illawarra or St George Illawarra. Played his entire career with the one NRL club, and has spent his entire off-field career with the one NRL club – beginning with a training and conditional role under Nathan Brown, before returning as an assistant under Steve Price (he went back to a local Wollongong club in the Bennett years). Every single coach currently employed in the NRL has some form of experience at a different NRL club, be it playing or in an assistant role. It is almost an unwritten prerequisite of being a coach. Now, there is a notable exception to this rule in Geoff Toovey, who did guide Manly to a grand final. However, it’s also worth noting that aside from a gig with the relegated Bradford Bulls in England, he has not been engaged by any other clubs since.


Recruitment stability. Incoming players want to know the coaching situation is stable.

This is a difficult one to categorically disprove, as it is a myth that is widely believed in across the league, and the reason why many coaches are sacked (or advised they will not be renewed) at the very latest halfway through their final season.

However there are two pieces of evidence that provide a sufficient counter to this myth.

1. There are many examples that show players recruited by a sacked coach have no problem staying at their new club under a different coach. Dane Gagai signed by Michael Maguire in June 2017, Maguire sacked in September 2017. Jai Arrow was signed by Neil Henry but didn’t play a single game under him, yet became a rep player under Garth Brennan. Api Koroisau was signed by Geoff Toovey and never played under him. Tautau Moga was signed by Neil Henry at Nth Qld, he spent 3 seasons in Townsville coached by Paul Green. The list could keep going. I present these merely as evidence that a coach change has, in reality, minimal effect on new recruits. If a coach change has minimal effect, then a coach under a cloud would be the same.

2. The Dragons recruitment situation for 2019 appears settled. Only fringe or young players are coming off contract, and no big names. Gareth Widdop has already been ostensibly replaced by Corey Norman, so one would assume the main recruit would likely be a fullback. There are no fullbacks on what you’d refer to as marquee (Widdop-style) money coming off contract in 2019 (the closest would be perhaps Gutherson from Parramatta and he’s a stretch), so you’d likely have that money available for an up and coming, potentially untried fullback . In that case, it’s safe to assume the player is moving clubs for a combination of the first grade opportunity, and the first grade pay packet. Head coach status would be well down the list.


In summary, there is no good reason to extend McGregor’s contract right now, if ever.

Excellent post, grouch.

You have certainly risen in my estimations but you did forget to mention one very important piece of information about McGregor that is so vital in accessing his ability to continue as an NRL lst grade coach.

McGregor has the vast knowledge of working for the NSW State of Orgin rugby league team.......... as a Waterboy!

Such heady employment credentials should ensure our much valued coach gains a further 3 year extension.

What the hell has happened to the 'St George' management side of the merger that allows this extension to be considered?

OKB
 

LINESPEED

Juniors
Messages
1,551
Great opinions and observations here.

I'd also like to add that continued scrutiny over Ben Hunt will also be a factor which Mary needs to manage effectively. This was a big fail on his part last year. As others have pointed out, Ben is our most significant signing in years, and I don't think it was fair that he copped most of the blame (in the media and through outspoken opposing fans) for the way the team played and how our form dipped. The best coaches are masters at shifting attention away from the playing group in front of the media. In fact, it's all part of being an effective 'man manger' in every sense, not just in footy... this is one of his major short-comings "oh it's not my fault".

Unless his skills around man management and game planning have suddenly enhanced in the past 3-4 months, we should be taking a 'watch and act' approach to any potential re-signing.

Unfortunately, under the current regime, we will only ever be a 'middle of the road' team. We'll continually be told things like "oh try being a Parramatta supporter" (lol - living near Eels territory I can't have pub conversations about Mary without copping this one liner).


Agree with you & RD.
Our team is not being coached in any professional sense of the word - and are largely rudderless. Another poster hit the nail on the head in saying that Mary was a ‘watcher’ - rather than an innovator who is proactive in selection & game management etc etc

It’s simply an intelligence deficit (and all that that entails) - plus the conservative personality thingo with Mary, and I really don’t like having to bang on about that because that’s beyond his control. Many of his decisions & media appearances have been jaw dropping, but we just privately WTF them & move on to the duplicate team sheet & bounce of the ball for the next round.

There are a lot of boneheads in the old boys club, with old alliances & ways of ‘thinking’- so Mary’s tenure & probable extension is a logical extension & reflection of all that.

He fits their template.

No renewal - it’s not in their DNA.

So from that respect I kind of miss our old sparring partner Dousty, who at least got us Bennett, a title & a bit of magic in a sorry saga of Board induced coaching fuc*ups.
Gordon mustn’t actually mind not getting a bang for his buck & going fully professional in trying to achieve the best for our great club.
Has no accountability like the NAB & Co crooks I guess.
FMD


So the team overachieved in 2018 in the absence of a legitimate coaching regime -
& did really well under the circumstances they were presented with.
And I was proud of them.

In the Broncos semi the players took charge & broke free from the McGregor shackles.
He had no input there as change was forced upon him.
And you could see the shock of what could’ve been all over the poor bugger’s face.

So much talent this year -screaming for direction!
 

Life's Good

Coach
Messages
13,971
Excellent post, grouch.

You have certainly risen in my estimations but you did forget to mention one very important piece of information about McGregor that is so vital in accessing his ability to continue as an NRL lst grade coach.

McGregor has the vast knowledge of working for the NSW State of Orgin rugby league team.......... as a Waterboy!

Such heady employment credentials should ensure our much valued coach gains a further 3 year extension.

What the hell has happened to the 'St George' management side of the merger that allows this extension to be considered?

OKB
Further to the management point is why would you entertain an extension prior to the season starting? It takes away the coaches motivation to demonstrate learnings from mistakes of the past - selections, game plans, bench etc.
Strong coaching, prior good results and the thought of losing your coach is why you would extend prior to a season starting. That criteria doesn’t apply to SuperCoach & most, bar our blinkered board, clearly see that.
 
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2,866
It is interesting reading the comments on this thread. There are some who argue quite well the virtues of McGregor and there are those who argue very well the downside of McGregor. And yes there are those who post just for notoriety and have baseless comments and we all know who they are.

I think the key stat for McGregor is the win-loss ratio which sits at 51%. After 4 years in charge this has not moved significantly enough to warrant any talk of extension. To understand this you have to look at how we have started every season under his tutelage. Without being pedantic we normally are up around the 80% mark. The latter half of the seasons past we run at around the 20% mark. What happens is anyone's guess, fatigue, overconfidence or even a few injuries here and there don't equate to such a dramatic fall. The explanation lies and how a game plan is made and weather it is flexible enough 2 change with every game. Once an opposition reads our game plan it becomes quite easy to defend. Our coach cannot switch game plans that's the biggest problem with his style and method. I would also add McGregor is a game watcher, not a game manager as evident from the use of the bench. There is also the talk that he allows players to choose themselves each week rather than demanding players take a rest and recuperate from injuries.

Does McGregor deserve an extension at this point in time, that's a resounding no and no hyperbole would justify that. But management works on a hit and head buried in the sand approach. They know it will not be popular but they will rely on the fact that we the supporters I just like lemmings it will all follow in line eventually. If McGregor is the only candidate available then there is no hurry to push the button so fast even wait until seasons end will not make any difference.
I think you hit the nail on the head when you point out our staid game plan deficiency but, I would go a step further.
Not only do other coaches work out what McGregor's game plan means and how to counteract it.
McGregor is also not capable of reading other coach's game plans and countering them.
We consistently get out manoeuvred, out coached and are always, always on a hiding to nothing when the scores are tight.
We hardly ever win close games. We don't look confident and there seems to be no tactical nous in our team.
It's those close games that Bellamy, Robertson and Bennett are able to win that we can't.
That's the difference between McGregor's win loss stats and theirs.
That dynamic translates into competition points and wins in close finals games.
Its the only way you can win premierships in fact.
When you consider that this club has had some really smart coaches that have brought us success (Bath, Waite, Bennett) you wonder why they keep persevering with this bloke.
He should never have been appointed after being caretaker, he should never have been extended.
After 2017 he should have been fired and yet here we are, 5 years later contemplating another extension.
Are they trying to break the record for the longest serving unsuccessful coach in the club's history?
It is a joke - that's all.
 
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TruSaint

Coach
Messages
18,557
I think you hit the nail on the head when you point out our staid game plan deficiency but, I would go a step further.
Not only do other coaches work out what McGregor's game plan means and how to counteract it.
McGregor is also not capable of reading other coach's game plans and countering them.
We consistently get out manoeuvred, out coached and are always, always on a hiding to nothing when the scores are tight.
We hardly ever win close games. We don't look confident and there seems to be no tactical nous in our team.
It's those close games that Bellamy, Robertson and Bennett are able to win that we can't.
That's the difference between McGregor's win loss stats and theirs.
That dynamic translates into competition points and wins in close finals games.
Its the only way you can win premierships in fact.
When you consider that this club has had some really smart coaches that have brought us success (Bath, Waite, Bennett) you wonder why they keep persevering with this bloke.
He should never have been appointed after being caretaker, he should never have been extended.
After 2017 he should have been fired and yet here we are, 5 years later contemplating another extension.
Are they trying to break the record for the longest serving unsuccessful coach in the club's history?
It is a joke - that's all.

Your post is spot on apart from the fact that we have won half a dozen games or more by less than a converted try last season, and if i recall seasons prior. Yet we have been battered by sides not in contention. 40-4 against Parra and 38 zip v Dogs.

Its the capitulation against sides at the bottom half of the ladder, and our consistent mid year fades that have shown Mary up. Mind you, if I were Mary I would be looking at a new deal. Why wouldn't I ? His only option would be the ESL, following Price.
 

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