Matautia contract updates

[Noname36]

I wish I shared your optimism. I mean, we've bounced back so well in the past? The problem with the Mata'utia boys is that they aren't overly important next year, but from 2016 onwards their importance becomes more apparent with an ageing McManus and question marks over both Leilua and Gagai's intentions to stay long term.

Additionally, the NRL figure they've just given us a management overhaul. I don't want their management overhauls if this is the product. We need private money involved that isn't the NRL's... if our owners don't have the supporters best interest in mind, they could at least have their own interests in mind - which would surely align with our clubs interests a little better than the governing body.

I certainly think Sione was going to be an integral part of the side moving forward. At the end of the day though Chanel plays wing and wing only and Pat hasn't even played FG. Sione leaving will really be the only one to f**k us up long term given he can play fullback or centre if either of the current boys leave. To be honest I think people are letting their fear of losing Sione cloud their perception of how good or important the other two are. I hope someone at management level can see it for what it is or we're going to end up paying a fortune for two players that are very replaceable. Sione leaving will be hard to swallow but it won't be the end of the world. We produce freaking outside backs faster than a Thai surrogacy agency produces babies. Yes he's special but if he doesn't want to be here he's useless. Look at Darius.

And that's my point, the NRL have done f**k all to overhaul our management since taking over. Maybe this will be the wakeup call they need given how vocal people will be. At the end of the day the NRL don't want to have to keep funding us forever. If they work out that our current management can't handle their shit there's a greater chance of them bringing in someone that can or being quicker to sell us to a private buyer.

I don't want to see those boys leave either but if they've actually signed something with the Dogs then I don't see the point in killing ourselves trying to change their minds (which was my original point). Yes this has been handled terribly but at the end of the day if they don't want to be here they don't want to be here. If they really wanted to they wouldn't even consider signing with another club (let alone actually doing it).

 

[Spot On]

This is possibly the funniest, most over reactive thread I have read in here. Thats saying something

The assumptions people are making based on very little along with the over the top outrage is astounding

Lol.

Matt Gidley not being able to talk to his contracted players about their futures with their manager is far from over reactive. That's from Gidley's mouth.

Most people are commenting on what has been presented so far, and a lot of reaction is over the "blindsiding" Gidley is claiming.

 

[perverse]

I agree with all of your points, Noname - if they can't commit to the Knights by kickoff 2015 then there's no point in developing them. I also agree on Chanel and Pat - although I think you're also downplaying them a bit too - they could be great role-players in a squad at least and good depth. We don't know how much each of them are getting with these "package deals" - we only know that Sione is going to be rich, which at this point has been a given since he was 14.

Unfortunately Sione could be one of this incoming generations main marquee players, his ceiling is very high and it's worth agonising over such a talent.

If all of this comes to pass and these boys end up at the Dogs, the biggest question we need to ask and resolve is why on earth did a group of boys that we've developed and nurtured for 10 odd years not feel any will to resign with us? I mean, I can speculate on a dozen reasons - and would probably be on the money with some of them - but the club needs to look at itself long and hard if this all pans out the way it's going.

After all the banging on about signing up our juniors instead of recruiting from the new management recently, it's really a failure of massive proportion for this to happen. It's not just about Sione, or Chanel, or Pat... for me this goes a bit deeper into a defence of our ideals and of our current recruitment strategy in general. If we can't re-sign these boys, it's basically a failure for this strategy before it's even begun. It's like getting out for a golden duck.

 

[Chicken_Hunter]

If they go to the dogs I hope all parties get burnt I hope the dogs structures ruin their careers and they never play first grade again. If they want to go about it this way they can get f**ked.

 

[perverse]

If they go to the dogs I hope all parties get burnt I hope the dogs structures ruin their careers and they never play first grade again. If they want to go about it this way they can get f**ked.

It's definitely a big kick in the teeth to spend so long developing a bunch of kids to have them spit in your face. Most juniors wouldn't get this sort of response... but we've been waiting for these boys for so long.

 

[Joker's Wild]

I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm just dealing with the facts of the matter. The boys signed something, their manager is being a prick and our CEO is floundering about like a confused puppy dog.

The thing I don't get is - if their manager is talking to all these different clubs about the boys - why get them to sign something with the Dogs? It makes no sense, because once that document is lodged - the boys only have 2 options... go to the Dogs and honour that deal, or renege and re-sign with the Knights. If the manager is indeed trying to get the biggest value contract possible - why has he cut all the players out of the race besides these 2 clubs? All of this going on a good 8-9 months before any deal would be officially ratified... it's just bizarre to me and indicates to me that this might not necessarily be about money alone. You don't cut down your clients options like this, so much can happen between now and Round 13 next year.

Something stinks. Something really, really stinks about this whole situation and we're not getting the full picture from someone. The managers links to the Dogs certainly are eyebrow raising.

Thats a fair point mate and I agree, its puzzling how its played out so far. Something is going on that we dont know about and thats pretty much my point

The anger directed at Midley and now the boys themselves is over the top imo. Footy is a business whether we like it or not and more often than not its the smarter, bolder businesses that prosper. We clearly are behind the 8 ball and its frustrating to see something you love and invest so much into lose out to a rival but things are seldom what the seem on the surface.

If the boys want to play together and feel they are a better shot at the Dogs, well thats their decision to make. We cant expect players to stay with our club out of loyalty alone, its simply not a reality in this day and age

 

[Chicken_Hunter]

It's definitely a big kick in the teeth to spend so long developing a bunch of kids to have them spit in your face. Most juniors wouldn't get this sort of response... but we've been waiting for these boys for so long.

It sure is. Guys like roopy and aqua duck were jizzing over them when they were in their early teens.

And it's not like we can't fit them under the cap either. We can give them an offer on par with the dogs and yet they ditch us as easy as that. It gives a good insight into their character.

 

[perverse]

If the boys want to play together and feel they are a better shot at the Dogs, well thats their decision to make. We cant expect players to stay with our club out of loyalty alone, its simply not a reality in this day and age

Definitely, but the problem with that for me is that this is generally a money thing with players. It's been said by various player managers that with the vast, vast majority of contracts in the NRL it basically comes down to dollars.

To me, I can't see how that's at all viable in this instance. Gidley mentioned in an interview over the past day or two that he would have a chat to the boys about "cost of living in Sydney, etc"... are you f**king kidding me? Are we lowballing them? Are we seriously lowballing them? I get this feeling (based on some tenuous evidence, I'll admit) that we're not willing to pay as much as the market is for these kids - and that's the actual sticking point in this whole situation.

If that's the case - our club definitely needs to pull it's head out of it's arse on the whole loyalty thing. Players are worth what the market demands they are worth. Supply and demand, and all that shit. I think it's reasonable to expect loyalty to play a part as far as if there are 2 equal offers on the table, but not much further than that. Without knowing what Pat and Chanel are asking for as a part of this deal, it's impossible for me to say whether the club are acting responsibly or not (put it this way - I have no faith in them that they are), however I do know that there isn't a better 18 year old prospect in the Rugbly League world than Sione Mata'utia right now, and we should have been expecting him to be priced accordingly since the moment he stepped onto the field in first grade.

I very much wish Bennett didn't talk the kid up so much - he so rarely does. A very small, very cynical part of me thinks that maybe he did it on purpose... but that would be a very forward-thinking, vindictive plot.

 

[Spot On]

Umm, why would they sign with Canterbury........ money and the promise of a 'Burgess' style brothers in arms feel good scenario. Managers very close links to the club and board. Perfect scenario.

 

[ek999]

I certainly think Sione was going to be an integral part of the side moving forward. At the end of the day though Chanel plays wing and wing only and Pat hasn't even played FG. Sione leaving will really be the only one to f**k us up long term given he can play fullback or centre if either of the current boys leave. To be honest I think people are letting their fear of losing Sione cloud their perception of how good or important the other two are.

Is this what's causing the issue for you possibly? You really only want to keep Sione and are happy to let the other two go, but the Bulldogs are happy to sign all 3 to keep the boys together and also possibly Peter.

 

[perverse]

Is this what's causing the issue for you possibly? You really only want to keep Sione and are happy to let the other two go, but the Bulldogs are happy to sign all 3 to keep the boys together and also possibly Peter.

That's our fans opinion, not the opinion of the club. I presume there is a difference... but with our club, who knows. The clubs public stance on the issue is that we want all 3 of them and are willing to bring Pete home, too.

If the Dogs are promising them that all 3 or 4 will be in first grade, they're making promises that they can't keep and both the Dogs and the boys will end up getting burned. Put simply, all 4 of them aren't good enough to be full time first graders. Pat might have a future in the back row, but will never make an impact in first grade as a centre. Pete is capable but not a star - more of a utility back. Chanel is a winger, and only a winger - although outside of Sione is the most likely to hold down a first grade spot imo.

There is a reason why Knights fans are only super keen on Sione - because he's the only one that is sure to be a regular first grader. If the Dogs promise all 4 of them a first grade spot, the Dogs are either going to end up with a very underwhelming back line overall in sticking to that promise, or the boys are going to get the shits the minute the Dogs do the logical thing and put half of them in reserve grade. Someone will get shafted in that scenario for sure.

 

[Chicken_Hunter]

Not to mention the dogs are a good chance of having both the Morris boys.

 

[Joker's Wild]

I think Chanel is more than capable of playing wing in FG for a lot of clubs. He is certainly more than just a reserve grader

Pat and Pete on the other hand would struggle. Pete has been there for the Dragons this year but they have a serious lack of depth in the centres and he has been average at best. Pat is just out of his depth playing centre in NSWCup

 

[Rod]

Not to mention the dogs are a good chance of having both the Morris boys.

And Lafai who is quality.

 

[Spot On]

Lafai is potentially better than all of them - Mata's and Morris'. He's a cracking good player that one. I'd have him at the club over almost any other centre in the comp.

If the Dogs have offered Sione 330K plus then Lafai will be on an absolute bundle next contract he signs.

Peter Mullholland was the bloke who spotted Lafai and brought him to the Dogs.

 

[Chicken_Hunter]

So the dogs will have lafai, bmoz, jmoz, leaving 2 spots for 3-4 matas (which rumour has it they have all been told they will play together in FG)

So if joe blow knights fans can do the simple maths and figure out that they all won't be playing together why can't they? Do they just blindly agree with whatever their manager says?

 

[Spot On]

So the dogs will have lafai, bmoz, jmoz, leaving 2 spots for 3-4 matas (which rumour has it they have all been told they will play together in FG)

So if joe blow knights fans can do the simple maths and figure out that they all won't be playing together why can't they? Do they just blindly agree with whatever their manager says?

Maybe they haven't put much thought into it, the manager seems to have total control if you are to believe the Midley quotes. Doesn't seem as though they boys are doing much of the decision making. It's almost as if they don't know wtf just happened????? Who knows.

 

[Packy]

I've watched them in 1st grade but not with the same eye you guys have. What makes Sione so much better than the other 3? Partciularly Chanel?

 

[perverse]

I've watched them in 1st grade but not with the same eye you guys have. What makes Sione so much better than the other 3? Partciularly Chanel?

The all-round package for mine. Sione seems to have a better football brain... but for me it's the intangibles and 1%ers that impress me about Sione. His poise and balance are very impressive at speed, especially when fending and moving through traffic. He has a very Hayne/Inglis-esque look about the way he can move past and through players without losing his speed and balance.

Before everyone goes off their rocker - I'm not saying he's the next one of these blokes (although he very well could be) - his poise and balance in motion just remind me of these 2 guys.

Then there's the fact that he's a visibly better player than any of his brothers at the age of 18. He's streets ahead of where any of them were at when they were 18.

Sione has never looked anything less than dominant anywhere he has played, the kid just looks natural and comfortable regardless of who he is playing against. It doesn't matter what company he has around him - he always looks the goods. I guess you can put consistency in the barrel of things I like about him, too.

Sione has dominated the youth rep teams, too. His brothers all got a look in at various stages of youth rep teams (i think, off the top of my head anyway... not sure about Pat), but I have been led to believe that Sione has always looked the best of them coming through all of those pathways.

I'm certainly not the most well versed on why Sione over the others, although it's been obvious to me in the games that I've watched him in both NYC and first grade that Sione just has that something special about him. Aquaduck would definitely be a better source of information - he has taken a lot of interest in Sione from a very young age.

 

[perverse]

As for why Sione over Chanel - versatility. Sione can play anywhere in the back 5 (not that he HAS played there, he's just that good that you can put him anywhere in the backline). For example - to the best of my knowledge Sione had never played fullback until he hit first grade... but Wayne Bennett had the confidence to put him in first grade at fullback... and aside from a hiccup on a nasty bounce in the first few minutes - he handled it with total aplomb. Actually, we barely noticed that Boyd and Gidley were missing, such was his comfort back there.

It's not often that Bennett declares a kid a future great and captain of a club - and a future great of Rugby League in general, but that is almost his verbatim quote from Sione's debut post-match presser.