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Match Discussion: Round 19 vs Sydney @ Sunshine Coast Stadium

Who will win? Round 19: Sydney v Newcastle

  • Sydney Roosters 13+

    Votes: 1 33.3%
  • Sydney Roosters 1-12

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Draw after Golden Point

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Newcastle Knights 1-12

    Votes: 1 33.3%
  • Newcastle Knights 13+

    Votes: 1 33.3%

  • Total voters
    3
  • Poll closed .

GidleyTwinz

Juniors
Messages
69
Well for one I've personally not said the words "sack the coach" once. Not tonight, not ever since AOB got here. Every point I'm making is something I believe to be a fair criticism, based on what I see week after week. Does it all get fixed if we get rid of AOB and bring in somebody else? Probably not. That's not for me to decide. But I've watched and played enough football to know that what I'm seeing is definitely not a well coached football team. Across the board we've got a team that I believe a serious coach would back himself to get to the finals. You can't tell me we shouldn't be beating the Tigers twice in a season, rather than losing to them twice in a season.

As for your actual question, that's hard to answer. Many of us have cited the Smith example, but in terms of a relatively new coach none particularly stand out I suppose. But in certain periods or seasons I do think some teams stand out as playing high above their perceived threshold. When the Sharks won the comp I don't think their team was THAT amazing. The Raiders two seasons ago could have won the comp, and I don't even like or rate Ricky at all but that was a team where the way they played is what them awesome, not necessarily the 1-17. Very few coaches are consistently successful, but plenty are able to improve the team they have at different times. I've seen no evidence yet that we're building towards anything.
This is a perfectly fair response, and I don't disagree. Although would say that "this isn't a well coached team" is hard to divorce from "this is a very hard team to coach". Your Sharks example didn't win the premiership missing half their spine for the year, and got the benefit of paying above the salary cap for the roster...

Saying you're below average in a garbage comp isn't a ringing endorsement.
I said we're average. And if the whole comp is garbage, that only suggests that it's even harder to find a coach that can build you into one of the very few decent teams.
 

GidleyTwinz

Juniors
Messages
69
Yeah, this is pretty much what I've been getting at. Ignoring the Knights for a moment, my opinion is that not enough teams are extremely well coached, and if they were the comp wouldn't be so uneven. I don't believe clubs are taking enough responsibility for why they lose, what makes them poor vs the top sides. Because I can pretty much guarantee if you had the smartest, best drilled team of good decision makers and cogs in the wheel who do their job consistently if not spectacularly, you would make the top eight. It's a weak comp, and a very good coach could take almost any team in it (bar maybe Bulldogs, Warriors, Tigers based on talent) to the finals. But the quality of game management and attention to detail across the board is embarrassing.
But if everybody fails at building this, surely you have to then admit that it's actually much harder than you make it sound?

Otherwise where are all these "very good coaches"? Are they just sitting on the couch at home? Or are there actually only a handful of them in the country in the first place? In which case it's not very helpful for us, who aren't going to sign Bellamy, Robinson or Cleary to come up here
 

Spot On

Coach
Messages
13,284
Geez, wrist slitting galore!

We look like we did in the trial v Melbourne. Why is it a shock we lost to the Roosters tonight?

We’ll be right when we get the million dollar half into the line up and get to play Brisbane and Canterbury…

Ponga really needs to step up against teams that aren’t in the bottom four.

Tedesco schooled him tonight.
 

macavity

Coach
Messages
19,041
Serious question, (and nobody here is going to want to hear this after another loss) but can you give me an example of a coach who has been able to come into a club like ours (i.e. not a big money salary cap sombrero) and completely turn the organisation around within a couple of years?

Outside of Cleary, who walked into perhaps the richest crop of local juniors since the Newcastle teams of the late 1990s, it just doesn't seem to happen. Brad Arthur is the best blueprint, and it's taken him 7-8 years to get Parra to the upper echelon of the comp.

I'm not saying AOB is the answer - I don't know if he is or isn't. But all these calls to just sack the coach are cathartic, but I'm not sure they're sensible.

In this comp, it takes a long time to rebuild a team and rebuild a culture. AOB hasn't had that time. And it's probably fair to dislike him using injuries as an excuse in press conferences - I don't want the coach to come out and say it. Nut it is a real reason for why our performance this year has been the way it's been. We've had Ponga and Pearce on the field together for one game!

Ultimately, fans of 11-13 teams in the comp are currently unhappy with their season and their coach. But I think anyone giving AOB a grade of anything other than incomplete is being too harsh

Nut is indeed the reason for our performances - lack of it.
 
Messages
2,901
If Pearce is still out next week drop Crossland and put Watson at 6. Watson played mostly there anyway. Ponga would need to step up as optional kicker.
Young needs a time out.
If Best isn't back give Sisagi a go.
 

Old dog

Juniors
Messages
1,581
We have now reached the clutching at straws situation.
We are a ordinary side hindered by critical position injuries coached by someone with no track record struggling between being a good bloke and a coach.
it has taken till this round to drop a underperforming player, Fitz yet we have others, Tuala (not as bad as his stats show) but has played every game but on points awarded is down in bottom area. We continue to have players underperforming picked on a regular basis Mann, Hoy, Tuala, Young (he has a future) yet we have other with potential such as Jones not given a start but picked in top 17 regularly. We have of/on performers such as Fitz and Barnett picked each week and moved around in the hope we will find the right position.
We have 5-6 regular starters that don’t deserve a starting position if we are to compete and if named most have 1-2 seasons at least to go and those below them are unlikely to replace other than through injury
 

Old dog

Juniors
Messages
1,581
If Pearce is still out next week drop Crossland and put Watson at 6. Watson played mostly there anyway. Ponga would need to step up as optional kicker.
Young needs a time out.
If Best isn't back give Sisagi a go.
If Pearce is still out kiss semi’s good bye but Crossland is a better option than Watson at halve when you take in his, Watsons work at 14. Stop moving players about pick each position based on ability and team performance.
Our worst performers tonight were the usual mistake riddled ones, Mann, Young (he will get better).
It won’t happen next week but changes will be made, we need to win and that usually means picking the experienced side, not the best but coach will be scared by the fact he lost and inexperience cost him.
 

Seage

Juniors
Messages
827
I watched the match on delay - I wish I hadn't bothered - and I won't win any points for originality of thought, but I can't recall any period in the second half where our attack wasn't just 5 one out hit ups, occassionally a second pass to a second rower, then a bad kick. What were we hoping to happen with that sort of game plan? When did we assume we'd score points? It reminds me if how the Blues used to try and beat Queensland from 2010-2013, never working out why they couldn't do it.

The Roosters were ripe for the picking, most of their team injured or retired, played poorly in the first half, and we got more predictable and more clueless the longer the match went on.

Whoever said in another thread last week that AOB still coaches attack likes it's the 2017 rules is right. They probably execute an outdated game at training perfectly and make him think we'll go well. Too bad it's the complete wrong idea. He and his coaching staff appear to have no idea how to participate in the current version of the game. And what the hell is Willie Peters delivering for us?
 

Zoidberg

First Grade
Messages
5,304
Tedesco did exactly what I said at half time Ponga needed to do in the 2nd, got involved.
And yeah, our kicking in the 2nd half was dumb, I don’t think they started a set of 6 less than 40m out from their try line. We did so well in the 1st keeping them down their end.
 

Yosh

First Grade
Messages
9,082
Geez, wrist slitting galore!

We look like we did in the trial v Melbourne. Why is it a shock we lost to the Roosters tonight?

We’ll be right when we get the million dollar half into the line up and get to play Brisbane and Canterbury…

Ponga really needs to step up against teams that aren’t in the bottom four.

Tedesco schooled him tonight.

He torched NSW. You swap Ponga and Teddy tonight for the game, do we win? I don't think so. Teddy probably has a stinker.
 
Messages
484
Tedesco did exactly what I said at half time Ponga needed to do in the 2nd, got involved.
And yeah, our kicking in the 2nd half was dumb, I don’t think they started a set of 6 less than 40m out from their try line. We did so well in the 1st keeping them down their end.
We had the help of a strong breeze in the 1st half, Roosters had it in the second. Thats why
 

Old School

Juniors
Messages
3
I have been Knights supporter for a long time, initially we would lose more than not, but at least when the match was over you were satisfied that the local boys had a real dig & made whoever they played work for it not just hand them the game on a platter. Those days are long gone, now we have a clueless, lazy, precious bunch who have no will to dig in & grind out a result, whatever it takes. The attitude seems to be there's always next week
& that's where the problem starts, losing seems to be acceptable the whole mob is just so soft. Opposition teams
seem to have intent, be fitter & full of energy rather than passive & constantly out on their feet like us, we have no footballers
who instinctively know what to do rather than work to some B.S formula & hope for the best. I read this column
all the time & hear about athletes, stats & lots more crap, athletes might have all the physical attributes you would look for, but no mongrel when the game gets tough & no natural instinct or plan B when the game plan goes south. Stats can say whatever you want them to say, open to anyones interpretation but we haven't had a real
footballer in a long, long time.Think of Ben Kennedy, Buderus, Simpson & Joey, they hated losing with a passion &
although they didn't always have a blinder they never stopped competing rather than going out with a whimper,
what's going on in these blokes heads? & after every game its hugs & cuddles for the opposition, big smiles &
pats on the back. What a load of crap! I struggle to name anyone who has pride in the jumper & am sick of all the
excuses trotted out about the injuries, the spine, the difficult week we had. The buck stops with Obrien, not a coach's bootlace, he puts me to sleep with the monotone press conferences & is cut from the same cloth as Brown & Stone who both also had no clue though probably good intentions. Obrien is an assistant who can carry
out instructions from an ideas man like Bellamy & Robinson, not a head coach who inspires those around him.
I have left my final rant until last, Ponga! the guy is physically gifted, but it ends there. Has no appetite to run the
ball back under pressure, just hand it to some other poor sucker to take a belting. Tonights effort was loiter around
the play the ball going into dummy half & occasionally have a half hearted run & defence consists of the occasional
half intercept but seldom ever puts his body on the line to make a try saving tackle. He is one of those players who's deficiencies & mistakes are swept under the carpet, but any thing positive is embellished to the max.
I will be howled down for these comments, so be it & most will say he is carrying injuries, but so have all the
true greats over the years & that's what makes a true great not an imposter, the ability & determination to rise
above all the crap & adversity thrown at them & still have a red hot go. Its all between the ears & in the chest. Unfortunately none of our current mob seems to have those attributes!
 

GidleyTwinz

Juniors
Messages
69
I have been Knights supporter for a long time, initially we would lose more than not, but at least when the match was over you were satisfied that the local boys had a real dig & made whoever they played work for it not just hand them the game on a platter. Those days are long gone, now we have a clueless, lazy, precious bunch who have no will to dig in & grind out a result, whatever it takes. The attitude seems to be there's always next week
& that's where the problem starts, losing seems to be acceptable the whole mob is just so soft. Opposition teams
seem to have intent, be fitter & full of energy rather than passive & constantly out on their feet like us, we have no footballers
who instinctively know what to do rather than work to some B.S formula & hope for the best. I read this column
all the time & hear about athletes, stats & lots more crap, athletes might have all the physical attributes you would look for, but no mongrel when the game gets tough & no natural instinct or plan B when the game plan goes south. Stats can say whatever you want them to say, open to anyones interpretation but we haven't had a real
footballer in a long, long time.Think of Ben Kennedy, Buderus, Simpson & Joey, they hated losing with a passion &
although they didn't always have a blinder they never stopped competing rather than going out with a whimper,
what's going on in these blokes heads? & after every game its hugs & cuddles for the opposition, big smiles &
pats on the back. What a load of crap! I struggle to name anyone who has pride in the jumper & am sick of all the
excuses trotted out about the injuries, the spine, the difficult week we had. The buck stops with Obrien, not a coach's bootlace, he puts me to sleep with the monotone press conferences & is cut from the same cloth as Brown & Stone who both also had no clue though probably good intentions. Obrien is an assistant who can carry
out instructions from an ideas man like Bellamy & Robinson, not a head coach who inspires those around him.
I have left my final rant until last, Ponga! the guy is physically gifted, but it ends there. Has no appetite to run the
ball back under pressure, just hand it to some other poor sucker to take a belting. Tonights effort was loiter around
the play the ball going into dummy half & occasionally have a half hearted run & defence consists of the occasional
half intercept but seldom ever puts his body on the line to make a try saving tackle. He is one of those players who's deficiencies & mistakes are swept under the carpet, but any thing positive is embellished to the max.
I will be howled down for these comments, so be it & most will say he is carrying injuries, but so have all the
true greats over the years & that's what makes a true great not an imposter, the ability & determination to rise
above all the crap & adversity thrown at them & still have a red hot go. Its all between the ears & in the chest. Unfortunately none of our current mob seems to have those attributes!
"What a load of crap" is a good summary of this post.

So we've got no players with pride in the jumper? Amazing we've won any games at all this year. You'd think clubs with millions of dollars to spend on the roster could find guys who try hard. You'd think guys who've dedicated their lives to footy, and have beaten out thousands of other blokes who'd kill for their job probably put some effort in to do so. But I guess not?

You've apparently watched the games and think Ponga doesn't make an effort? No clue what to tell ya. Maybe we should bring in some park footy fb from the local comp?

But you're right, if our guys just tried hard we'd win all the premierships, and the other teams (who are also trying hard in this scenario??) wouldn't be able to beat us, because we're just trying the hardest?
 

Jono078

Coach
Messages
17,494
All out of ideas. The story of this club. Shane Flanagan would be controversial move but tell me how we don't need him again.
I think I like the idea of this, but there is the concern that he might have a dated gameplan like AOB.

Anyone see Daifiti's post-game comments? It was super encouraging I thought.

He said as a leader he needs to call out those who are not aiming up and hold players accountable. He said some just didn't own up and we need to turn into a club that doesn't accept that and he'll play his part as a leader to ensure things change.

He's really turning the corner and Origin does such great things for him each year.
 

AusKnightRKO

First Grade
Messages
7,357
Geez, wrist slitting galore!

We look like we did in the trial v Melbourne. Why is it a shock we lost to the Roosters tonight?

We’ll be right when we get the million dollar half into the line up and get to play Brisbane and Canterbury…

Ponga really needs to step up against teams that aren’t in the bottom four.

Tedesco schooled him tonight.
Did everyone else miss the fact he had to be needled up to even get on the field, he was barely going to be involved, but it was a better option than picking Hoy in those conditions would of been 40+
 

Yosh

First Grade
Messages
9,082
Am I the only one who actually likes Ponga? I think he gets too much stick for not being Joey level godness. You put him in any of the top 4-5 teams he would win Dally M every year.

Even in today's game, needled up, was there at every ruck and tried to spark something. Obviously the pain got the better of him as the game wore on and he couldn't be as impactful but did you see his reaction after the Joey Manu touch in goal call? I think the list of players who deserve a whipping is long at our club but Ponga isn't on that list.

Also, do we need an attacking coach? Just let Obi take care of the team in general and get someone like Flanagan in? As bad as our defense has been, it's gotten a ton better since Seibold took and and is a ton better than our attack.

Also two, how good are the Saifiti boys and King? The Saifiti twins must be the best two front rowers in the game, up there with Haas, maybe Papalii and Welch? I think Sue did well as well. King has been almost our best player the past two weeks. Maybe that's why we got thumped but I hope we keep him around. On peanuts and is a real first grader.

Watson needs to play in the middle at lock for at least 60 minutes a game. It's one attacking move Obi has made that has been positive. Watson to start and come off after 30 mins and then come back on the 50th.

While I'm at it.... We have turned Frizzell, a super weapon, into a dud... Why aren't we setting him to run dangerous lines? He must be stick and tired of our boring attack...

Anyways, another week, another loss. Our fixtures get a lot better now and boy does our for and against need it...
 

Spot On

Coach
Messages
13,284
Frizzel is playing no different to the way he did at St George Yosh.

What you see is, what you get. He plays like a middle forward. Straight and hard. Always has. Rarely passes the ball.
 

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