Matthew Elliott

[Kris_man]

I know there's already a thread on this, but the title of it got some people immediately on the defensive, so I wanted a new one. This is what I'd like to ask Matt Elliott fans: Do you think that there is a problem with the way the team is performing? If so, do you think it's elliott's fault?
The reason i ask this is because i can't work out whether Elliott-defenders are trying to say. Are they trying to say,
a) that the team is not going as badly as most of us think?, or
b) the team is going badly, but it's not Elliott's fault?

I think as far as b goes, a leader must always take responsibility for his team's failures, barring some exceptional circumstances like injuries. If i can use an analogy, to say that a team's poor performance is not the coach's fault, is like saying that a bad movie is not the director's fault. Sure, the actors might suck, and the script might be terrible, but the director is still responsible for the quality of the movie.
If a is the case, then i simply disagree. The team is going badly. sure, we could be worse, but we're still below standard.[/b]

 

[raiders_lover_18]

It is definetly not Matt Elliots fault. He can not be fully blamed

 

[Kris_man]

It is definetly not Matt Elliots fault. He can not be fully blamed

reasons please?
and who is to blame then?

 

[Raider_69]

is not to be FULLY balmed
however he must shoulder at least 50% of the blame IMHO

 

[Steven Gerrard]

It's not Elliotts fault. Simple. Elliott can only do so much. Sure he may have a part, but to put the ENTIRE blame on him is stupid. There are 17 Players, and 2 Coaches. ppl goin on and on heads should roll etc, Sack the whole squad, sack the coach...Ok lets do that. But then what?

Everyone here knows our team PLAYS on CONFIDENCE. Without confidence, our team hits a brick wall. Elliott trys to keep that confidence up with his positive comments. If he wasn't we'd be coming dead last now. If you show belief in your players, they become a better player. Look at last year, with confidence high in the camp, anything was possible.

This year, less confident due to some close losses, and it hits us harder than we thought it would. We had great depth last year, this year we dont. Next year, we will.
With the negativity shown on these forums, if a player was to read it, or a coach, or management, how hard will it hit them, and how much would it hurt them. If they know the fans are still behind them, they will aim to acheive more, knowing the fans are still in support. Last year showed that, with the players and staff coming up to the SGB thanking us for the support after every game.

I think i've made my point, now waiting for the disagreement to start.

 

[hrundi99]

Your movie/director analogy isn't entirely appropriate.

A good director can be attached to a movie with a bad script and/or poor actors, and no matter how good a job he does, the limitations of the material will usually shine through (what's that thing about polishing a turd?)

Having said that, a talented cast with a good script can be mishandled by a poor director.

Anyway...

I think the team is down on form in general. I think injuries have played a part but I get the impression that perhaps Jenno's not being as effective as he was last year. It's one thing ensuring the players take a step up in fitness and durability, and it's another thing to build on it. That and his comments on missing England make me think he's not necessarily entirely focussed (I'd love to have ball boy correct me on that).

I tend to think that sometimes the "down with Elliott" brigade may oversimplify what it means to be a quality coach. I guess people like Bennett, Ricky and Folkes do make it look pretty easy at times.

I don't profess to be an expert in coaching (though I do follow a number of teams in a number of different types of sports which adds I guess a more rounded perspective on coaching itself rather than just rugby league coaching) but the main issues I tend to have with Elliott at the moment (which I've been averse to stating given the plethora of "negativity"; but well, here's a thread specifically on it) are as follows:

1. His lack of willingness to make the changes that need to be made (pulling Boogas after 10 minutes of carnage vs the Cowboys (?) was a welcome change). It's one thing having faith in your players, but you need to assess what is happening more rapidly before it gets worse. This needs to happen on Tuesday mornings for team selections as well.

2. Apparent failure to focus on specific areas of need; getting Matty Johns down to Canberra to help with playmaking was a good idea. What's the long term plan?

3. Lack of on-field cohesion and commitment to good defence; this is the mysterious item as we don't truly know if it's Elliott's coaching or the player's inability or unwillingness to carry out instructions when on field.

4. Boundless positivity with media (lack of disciplinary feedback with players in public forum); another mysterious one as we don't know if he has decided that this is just the way he is playing it or that he is just fundamentally optimistic. I tend to think he's playing his own game based on what he thinks best fits his squad. He's a smart guy and I'm willing to back him on this.

As I've implied this can be taken with a grain of salt as none of us truly know what is going on behind closed doors. We do know however that this team is genuinely underperforming, and something needs to change.

 

[Brimmer]

I disagree... :lol:

Jokes mate.....

 

[RaidersMalt]

If it is one of Macca's movie scripts, the movie is bound to suck! :lol: :lol:

Seriously though Kris you make some good points. However...

Is the team not playing to their potential? YES
Should Elliot bare some of the responsibility for this? YES
Should he be fired if they don't make the finals this year? NO

Why? Because I don't think sacking the coach will solve all or even any of our problems at the moment, and is more likely to cause greater unrest in the team.

And lets be honest If the raiders win this week and they end up making the finals, everyone will be singing Elliot's praises. It's not over till the fat lady...you know.

 

[Raider_69]

Tonio we are all still behind them but some of us are more relistic with the possibilities of this current squad and coaching team. We have a far better squad then 10th place and because of that at some point the buck must stop somewhere... ie. the coach

he may not be missing tackles, taking wrong 5th tackle options and dropping ball but he is the bloke who is showing blind faith in those who do whilst more talented and inform players flounder in PL, this trend has hopefully changed with the includsion of Chilli Con Carn and Chalky but its a little to late now, this should have been happening against the knights 2 weeks ago, then we may be looking forward to the finals.

We are all still fans to the core, we will always bleed green, blue and yellow but some of us like to see our team suceed, does this mean if we dont we are gonna pack up and leave? f**k NO, ill still be watching and praying to the good lord above that the raiders prove me wrong.

Ill do what ever in my power as a fan to ensure that the Green Machine is a feared entity in the NRL. If that means some of you label me a lesser supporter because i have a realist veiw on the team instead of blind faith and optimism, then so be it because ill sleep soundly tonight in my green and black (gotta repaint cause are back to the glory days colours) room with the raiders emblem above my bed head.

We are all raiders fans here, this is what a forum is for, people with a common hobby to interact with people with different opinions and views in an aim to broaden ones harizons.

Just because i have a differing opinion to someone else makes me or them no less a fan and we should remember this when debating issues such as this. And anyone telling someone to f**k off and support another team for having a different opinion should take a look at themselves

I think ive made my point...

 

[greeneyed]

Well said R69.

 

[jed]

The coach's head is usually the first to roll when a team makes big changes, but as we have seen with Souths and the Warriors, aside from a kneejerk reaction by winning a few games, overall form doesn't improve in the mid-term. As hrundi pointed out, there need to be changes made in the overall coaching procedures and attitude of the team. Whether this includes replacing the coach, that's not for me to say. Last season, we played with condifence, and we thought we could take on the entire world. This year, although the players want to win, their form is shite, and something has got to happen to turn it around.

 

[ball boy]

Hrundi about jenno the last few weeks he hasnt done that much because he acctually had an operation on his head that may be a problem?

 

[Tidus_Raider]

I think the criticism levelled at Elliot is fair. Here are my reason's:

1. Refuses to make the tough decisions when it comes to selection night.

2. Not evolving the way we play. The whole hit u over the advantage line and using the 'little me around the ruck' is soooo 2003.

3. Drew and Boogas. Nuff said.

4. Not elevating talent. We have the PL PREMIERS from 2003. These guys are talented enough to be able to handle first grade. One player from the winning squad has been given an extended chance at first grad and that's Gafa. Funnily enough he has been one of the few positives this year. The guy is playing out of position and yet on a weekly basis he is still one of our best.

5. Karmichael Hunt can handle it. Sonny Bill can. So can Benji. Firman too. So why cant Todd Carney. He is selected in first grade. We get our hopes up. He is given 15 minutes game time. WTF?!

 

[jed]

Should he be fired if they don't make the finals this year? NO

Why? Because I don't think sacking the coach will solve all or even any of our problems at the moment, and is more likely to cause greater unrest in the team.

If we are going to call this season a failure (which I think most of us are almost prepared to do), we first need to decide what constitutes failure.

Is not winning the premiership counted as failure? I mean, success would be winning the whole damn thing, so the opposite must mean failure?????
What about not making it to the Preliminary final?
What about not making it into the 8 at the end of the season?
What about losing more games than we win?
What about winning the wooden spoon?

How are we going to react to a failure? Sack the coach? Fine - who would you suggest we sign in his place? Hey, I know - let's offer Phil "Frankenstein's Monster" Gould. I mean, it's got to be good for us as far as recruiting goes.

There are many different degrees of failure, but once we decide we've failed, we need to decide how we're going to turn the next season into a success.

 

[Steven Gerrard]

f**k NO, ill still be watching and praying to the good lord above that the raiders prove me wrong.

Wasn't it you who switched off the TV during a Raiders game? :roll:

To call yourself a realist out of the whole situation is the only way to cover your argument to help yourself look right.

 

[lotm]

i'm likely to take hrundi's point of view, in that, although there are several aspects of his performance that may leave something to be desired, i'll still support him until it's blatantly obvious to me that he's not the man for the job.

We have a far better squad then 10th place

what somewhat sh*ts me is that people say how good a squad we have ... how high up the table we should be, but when it comes to player negotiations, we should be nowhere near the cap. the two concepts are mutually exclusive.

does this mean if we dont we are gonna pack up and leave?

i know of one person on this forum who's contemplating exactly that.

overall, while i'm disappointed in this season's performance, i'm hardly going to slit my wrists over it. i'm still going to look forward to next season ... especially with the addition of smith, frawley and carney to the top squad. i'll still be anxious as to whether smith and adamson will stand up to nrl footy and whether we can handle the loss of davico and wiki. i'll be eagerly anticipating michael weyman's rise to representative footy.

there's a lot to look forward to for 05, but 04's not over yet ...

 

[azza]

f**k NO, ill still be watching and praying to the good lord above that the raiders prove me wrong.

Wasn't it you who switched off the TV during a Raiders game? :roll:

To call yourself a realist out of the whole situation is the only way to cover your argument to help yourself look right.

So what the hell is right? You seem to know the answers? Tell us, please, so we can all become better supporters.

I just simply cannot fathom how you cannot accept that Elliot has to cop some blame for this. When he signed his contract he would have been smart enough to know that he is in the hot seat as coach and is going to be under scrutiny for how the team performs. Simply because he does not miss those tackles out on the field does not absolve him of responsibility here.

It is he who has persisted with dud selections, and it is he who should be assisting this team to develop attacking structure. There is no evidence this is occurring. Until it does occur, you are just going to have to accept that not all of us are going to sing the praises of Elliot. The team is not playing to its capabilities, we know that from what we saw last year. So the coach must take some heat for that.

I don't give two sh*ts if Matt Elliot is OUR coach. If he isn't doing his job properly, no matter how much time he puts in, then he must accept criticism. I reckon he is a good enough bloke to accept that, so why can't you? He may be the nicest bloke in the world but that is a completely separate issue from his coaching ability.

 

[raiders_lover_18]

It is definetly not Matt Elliots fault. He can not be fully blamed

reasons please?
and who is to blame then?

He can not be FULLY blamed. as some souths critics have said "He doesnt have the cattle"

 

[Bay56]

He can not be FULLY blamed. as some souths critics have said "He doesnt have the cattle"

And who is to blame for that ... coach and management. Dont compare us with souths .. more compare us with the Roosters, Bulldogs and the Broncos of this world.

Some of you guys seem to have completely missed the point. Results are one thing (and we certainly lack in that department). The real problem is that the product that Elliot coaches is as boring as bat shit. If you were a swinging supporter who would you pay your hard earned to watch ... apart from the diehards the remainder of the city places their arse on a seat to watch the other code. We are no longer the exciting green machine of the 80's and 90's. Most of you admit to this while others cant see it over their huge egos.

I know of two season ticket holders (four seats) who will not be renewing in 2005. I work with two keen RL supporters who this season have gone to a few brumbies games, liked what they saw and will be attending more games in the future.

A combination of management and coach have assisted in producing a product which now attracts less than 10K per game. Do you think that is going to improved next season ... pigs arse it will ... and it will remain so until the root cause is rectified.

IMO Elliot must go and management needs a major shake as well. There is no doubt that to rectify the current situation will mean heart ache in the short term before long term success.

 

[Steven Gerrard]

We shouldn't be blaming anyone. Full stop. Stop TRYING TO BLAME PEOPLE.