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Matthew Johns sex scandal in 2002

ibeme

First Grade
Messages
6,904
I think saying what you've just said disrespects EVERYONE involved in this story ... as well as everyone who's been involved in a similar situation.

I hope that you calling this kinda story empowerment is just you stirring. it's nothing to do with feminism. eveyone is different and consent - despite what we'd like to think - is not simple, especially when people are blind drunk.

if I want anyone to think anyone after seeing this story it's that maybe we all need to actually stop and think about sex - how to make sure everyone is actually into what you think they're into. especially when it's one person with six people they don't know.

as in why don't we forget who's to blame and actually make something positive come out of it? that's what the nrl are trying to do with playing by the rules after coffs harbour but it seems like league fans would rather pick a side and either hunt down the footy players (cause god knows they must all be deviants) or the 'groupies' (they're just in it for the fame!)

Forget this case specifically, I was talking in general terms.

My point was that this is no longer the 1950's where women are to be seen but not heard. Where the head of the household is the man, and it's he who makes all of the decisions. Feminists have fought hard over the decades to achieve equality, to empower women to stand on their own two feet, and to make their own decisions. Do you agree?

Now, we have moral crusaders coming out and saying that women don't have the ability to make decisions when it comes to group sex. If they're confident enough with their sexuality to go out and seek out group sex with football players to satisfy a sexual fantasy/desire, then shouldn't feminists be applauding the fact that we live in an age where they feel empowered enough to make that decision? The moral crusaders don't think that women are capable of making such decisions. Doesn't that fly in the face of what feminists have been fighting for?
 

El Diablo

Post Whore
Messages
94,107
http://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/lifematters/behind-closed-doors-20090515-b62a.html?page=-1

Behind closed doors
May 16, 2009

In a week of public outrage at footballers' sexual behaviour, Debra Jopson and Elicia Murray found past taboos have become a generation's norm.

Any Saturday night in Sydney teenagers are doing it in the dark places - parks, garages, backyards, beaches, schools, the backs of cars. Partying, drinking, drugs and sex, even in trees, according to 17-year-old Tania*, who lost her virginity at 13.

She knows of a girl, 15, and her 14-year-old male lover who had sex in a tree in a North Shore park because lying on the grass made them itchy. "My advice to everyone is they should not walk through a park on a Saturday night or a teenager might fall on their head," Tania says.

The Matthew Johns scandal, involving Cronulla footballers and a woman, 19, in Christchurch, New Zealand, seven years ago has lifted the lid on moral outrage and raised deep questions about consent, power, vulnerability and responsibility. The footballers are required to atone and the woman's behaviour in apparently giving at least limited consent remains a sad puzzle to many.

Shocked as older Australians may be at those sordid details, however, events under their noses are more likely to shake them. Many teenagers and young adults have turned the free sex mantra of the 1970s into a lifestyle, and older generations simply don't have a clue.

Group sex may still be fringe but a fair proportion of sexually active teenagers and young adults the Herald spoke to this week have been involved in threesomes, or know of friends who have.

Oral sex is no longer the exotic addition to the normal repertoire of their parents' generation. For the young who have sex, oral is the norm. For them, it's the equivalent of their parents snogging during courtship. They get pornography, advice and pick-ups over the internet and alcopops evaporate inhibitions.

"I've had threesomes and foursomes," says Lisa, 19. "It's usually at a party and everyone's had a bit to drink. It started with girls kissing girls because that's a hot thing. After that you're just kissing everyone and it goes on from there."

Not that everyone is doing it, of course. The national Secondary Students and Sexual Health Survey in 2002 found that a quarter of year 10 students and half of year 12 students were no longer virgins. Half of school leavers, therefore, had not had intercourse. The researchers at Melbourne's La Trobe University say the unreleased 2009 results are similar, with only a slight shift to permissiveness.

But among the sexually active, stories abound of games at the edge. A high school teacher told us of a girl student caught organising a so-called lipstick or rainbow party. Details extend beyond publication here; suffice to say it involves boys and girls and indiscriminate oral sex, with boys seeking to be marked with the colours of the rainbow.

Moral judgments will no doubt be made about what many of the young now get up to, but listening to them reveals a different sexual story to that of previous generations. The age of first sex has dropped since the 1960s. Young females have become more brazen; males less inhibited. The history of this is based on the behaviour of their elders.

"It is not a clock we can turn back," says Anne Mitchell, an associate professor at La Trobe University's Australian Research Centre in Sex, Health and Society.

There has been a continuing shift towards permissiveness since the contraceptive pill wrought a revolution in the 1960s and 1970s, when Mitchell was a young adult. "That is when the gap between puberty and marriage started to grow. You got married to start a sex life in the past. The pill was huge. It made the difference between the shame of having a baby out of wedlock [and not] … The gap between puberty and marriage means there is a lot of territory where you cannot expect everyone to be celibate," she says.

"When we were young, oral sex was part of your fantasy sex agenda. For young people now it is foreplay. They don't consider oral sex as sex." Nor did Bill Clinton, of an older generation, but that's another story.

Eve, 19, says most of her friends were about 16 when they started having sexual intercourse, years after their first experience of oral sex. "People were talking about it and doing it in year 7 [the debut year of high school]," she says.

For girls, she says, there is not the same stigma attached to oral sex as there is to intercourse. "It's a big thing with losing their virginity. They have to wait. But with oral sex, it's like, whatever. It's normal."

Wendy Delaney, a teachers' union representative who works as a school counsellor in the Newcastle area, says she knew of several cases of year 6 students having oral sex. All were reported to the Department of Community Services.

Eve has been to parties where guys lined up for oral sex. A double standard can apply. "For the guys, there's a hero status. But for the girls, most of the other girls will look at them and think it's a bit s**tty. But most of them are so drunk that they don't know what they're doing anyway," she says.

Young women's behaviour shifted during the 1990s as they "became more like the men" - more open about what they had done with their partners, eroding the double standard, says Juliet Richters, associate professor in sexual health at the University of NSW.

In surveys of university students at Macquarie during the 1990s, she found that men lost the 1960s perception of themselves as creatures driven by sexual urges who needed females to control them.

As sexual practices changed, language evolved. Terms such as "friend with benefits" or "f--- buddy" are used to describe someone who is a no-strings-attached regular sexual partner. Encounters are known as "hook-ups" and "booty calls".

Lisa, 19, has two such friends. "We just have sex every time we see each other. There's no jealousy," she says. "Free love, man, free love."

In this atmosphere, are virgins intimidated? Says Mitchell: "There is still a large number of young people who haven't had sex or even a bit of snogging. We know 20 per cent of young people in the school survey haven't had any kind of sexual contact."

Richters says the virgins she surveyed at university "were always amazed because they always think that everyone has had it except them".

Brazen they may be, but many young people regret the circumstances of their loss of virginity. "I should have waited till I was older and more mature," says Tania, who had sex with a boyfriend at 13.

Joan Sauers's Sex Lives Of Australian Teenagers tells many tales of joy, regret and alcohol. "Well, I was really, really drunk and I had a boyfriend but I went to a party and was with three guys," says a Western Australian, who lost her virginity at 15. "It felt really good at the time but afterwards I felt cheated and used."

Tania says some in her group use fake IDs to get into pubs. That's preferable, she says, to the dark spaces where they otherwise party because drunk kids tend to do more stupid things such as going naked.

Her friends have combined ecstacy and alcohol, leading to unwanted sex. The secondary schools survey found an increase in alcohol use and bingeing between 1997 and 2002. More than 28 per cent of girls and 23 per cent of boys reported having unwanted sex in 2002.

Mitchell says "alcopops have had an enormous impact on young women" who previously didn't drink because there was no respectable beverage.

Lara, 19, says group sex - usually spur-of-the-moment and alcohol-fuelled - is common at her university residences, where she has heard of anything from threesomes to encounters with up to a dozen people. "It's the whole dorm-living thing. It goes on a whole lot," she says. "Group sex is mainly involving three guys and a girl, but I have heard of up to nine or 10 guys and two girls … All scenarios are pretty much imaginable."

Lara says that while some female students enjoy the physical act, others find the attention more appealing. "I honestly think that some of the girls do it because the guys will think they're amazing."

But pride can turn to shame once their exploits become public knowledge. "You'll notice a complete turnaround within a week or two, based on what's circulating about them," she says.

Trent, 21, says he has high-fived a mate during group sex but tries to keep emotions out of it. "I don't really want the girl to get too emotionally involved."

Sex these days is even possible without being there, thanks to "sexting". The NSW Government launched an education campaign this month to warn children about the dangers of sending sexual images via mobile phone or posting pictures on social networking sites.

Chris, 16, likens it to fishing:"You chuck a line out and see if anything bites," he says.

Lisa describes the practice as "like a gift to whoever you're going out with". But it has to be "artistic".

"Not like 'here is a vagina'. That's pretty gross," she says.

But she acknowledges that it doesn't always end well. "They'll just forward it to their mates if they're a dickhead. You've got to be careful."

Girls also collect photos of themselves having sex with as many different partners as they can, Lara says.

Tom, 17, says a stash of porno mags under the bed is "old generation". He finds pornography online. There's plenty of it, and it's free.

Chris has been downloading videos to his mobile phone for years. He was caught out by a relative when a huge phone bill arrived but that has not deterred him.

Tania says she and her friends talk about the rights and wrongs of what they do. "We learn morals from other people's experiences," she says.

According to Mitchell, now many sexual rules have gone, young people can develop personal ethics. "We need to understand that kids will have sex when they are not married. Our concern would be to make them safe and enjoy it," she says.

* Young interviewees' names have been changed.
 

Kiki

First Grade
Messages
6,349
some of you really have no idea what feminism is do you? for you guys its just a label to use whenever a woman says something you don't like. DIRTY FEMINIST. grow up.
 

ibeme

First Grade
Messages
6,904
some of you really have no idea what feminism is do you? for you guys its just a label to use whenever a woman says something you don't like. DIRTY FEMINIST. grow up.

feminism (countable and uncountable; plural feminisms)
A social theory or political movement supporting the equality of both sexes in all aspects of public and private life; specifically, a theory or movement that argues that legal and social restrictions on females must be removed in order to bring about such equality.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/feminism

Seems to fall in line with my arguments
 

8Ball

First Grade
Messages
5,132
some of you really have no idea what feminism is do you? for you guys its just a label to use whenever a woman says something you don't like. DIRTY FEMINIST. grow up.

Nice broad sweeping generalization there.

Enlighten us then. What is feminism?
 

8Ball

First Grade
Messages
5,132
feminism (countable and uncountable; plural feminisms)
A social theory or political movement supporting the equality of both sexes in all aspects of public and private life; specifically, a theory or movement that argues that legal and social restrictions on females must be removed in order to bring about such equality.

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/feminism

Seems to fall in line with my arguments

..Damn you ruined it for me. :(
 

God-King Dean

Immortal
Messages
46,614
I could not understand what this old man was saying.

004175_20.jpg
 
Messages
2,016
Apologies if you've seen a lot of these.

* That stupid girl should have realized that she has herself to blame… we all know that thrashing about will only attract more sharks.
* Andrew Johns is recognized as the better footballer but no one can doubt his brothers ability to put his team mates into holes.
* Q: What’s the difference between Matthew Johns and the movie Jaws? A: In Jaws, the woman only gets eaten by one shark.
* Apparently the Matthew Johns/Kiwi sex scandal was just a misunderstanding she said “I want sex” but the Sharks thought she said “I want six”
* Channel 7 Not interested in Matthew Johns for ‘Thank God You’re Here’ not enough room on small set for former Sharks teammates to enter room also
* The NRL cleared Matthew Johns of misconduct as the kiwi girl at the centre of the scandal admitted she wasn’t aware of the interchange
* If you break a mirror, it’s bad luck for 7 years…if you f**k a Kiwi groupie, it’s bad luck FOR 7 years
* Have you ever wondered what the Haka was about?… I listened to the start closely to the start : ‘’Come Matt-y, Come Matt-y…’’
* Kiwi women have been banned from swimming on Aussie beaches…they attract too many sharks
* You know the Sharks are in a bad way when they get a larger attendance at a gang bang than a home game
* NRL clubs are looking to increase attendance by introducing ”ladies night”’’
* Apparently the Bulldogs have come to Matty Johns defence and have stated that it is quite easy to get caught out with 14 players on the pitch
* Apparently the real name of the woman has been released. her name is Joyce Mayne take what you like now and don’t pay anything for 7 years
* Newsflash - Matt Johns has stepped aside from the Footy show. 5 of his Sharks teammates are prepared to fill in while 6 will be happy to be in the audience.
* The NRL have cleared the cronulla sharks from any wrong doing in the latest gang bang saga. They say benefit of the doubt was given to the attacking team.
* Breaking News. The others were’nt all sharks. Andrew Johns got her stoned. Then Brett Stewart fingered her. Sonny Bill f**ked her in the dunny while Hoppa fingered her asshole and Gower kept dunking his c**k in her orange juice. The only innocent player this time was Willie Mason, as usual he was happy for all his team mates to do the work!!!!
* There has been a huge cancer scare at the Cronulla Sharks! 7 Years ago, 8 Players all woke up with the same ugly looking mole on their c**ks.
* Matthew Johns is set to star in a sequel to the movie ‘Three Men and a Little Lady’
 

sass

Juniors
Messages
1,073
I also disagree it has nothing to do with feminists.

Every morning show/talk show/news report has been filled with feminists, females in high positions eg the sex discrimination minister or whatever her title is, etc.

All calling for the same thing: To educate men to show more respect to women.

That call, is horsesh!t.

How about a call for a system to educate women to respect themselves? Not just give it away for free.

Where have these calls been?

cjg ... I can say as a woman who writes about footy, if women are the ones on tv constantly giving their opinion ... it's probably because they were ASKED. our website is totally lighthearted and doesn't deal with what most people would think of as 'serious issues' at all, but simply because we are women we're somehow expected to have an authoritative opinion on it and talk about it constantly.

a profile that a journo wrote about us now has to be completely rewritten (according to the mag) because they can't publish an article about women and humour without finding out all our opinions about this scandal and putting that in.

as for what you and dean call "feminism" - women being on tv doesn't = feminists. women have all kinds of different opinions and feminism comes in all different forms, and relates to all social constructs, not just sex.

if they are discussing education for men, then it's because this particular incident is one where it's the men that are high profile, not the women.

but for the record, ignoring your retro WOMEN SHOULD KEEP THEIR PANTS ON comments, I think we do need sex education for men and for women. not education about how to put on a condom and how your bits work, but actual discussion about how to get what you want out of sex, and what sex means.

I went to a talk at UNSW the other night on the rugby league's education programs, and the research they used to create the programs comes from EVERYWHERE. US colleges, male peer groups, gay education, the marine corps ... it's not just footy players that have confusion and mixed messages about sex, it's everyone.

sometimes no means no. sometimes silence means 'no ... but I'm too scared to say'. sometimes silence means 'no but I think that because I kissed you / danced with you/ came home with you now I don't have a choice'. sometimes no means ' I want to but I'm scared of what you'll say about me tomorrow'

sex is massively complicated and everyone should be talking about it imo.
 

Kiki

First Grade
Messages
6,349
ur so right sassy, women are talking about it because they have been asked. as you said we were shocked that an article about us has to be rewritten when what we do is so light hearted.
 

Kiki

First Grade
Messages
6,349
i can't believe sassy just wrote that awesome response and thats all you can say. actually wait...yes i can.
 

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