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Michael Clarke - Is the end very near?

undertaker

Coach
Messages
11,011
Clarke is not in the same league as any of Ponting, Chappell, S Waugh or Border. Border had ordinary teams around him and truly led from the front - he didn't just talk about leading from the front.

As I have said elsewhere, Jayawardene is the mirror image of Clarke, and many Australians do not rate him.

Clarke imo well short of the top tier of Australian batsmen ever, and regardless of what Shane Warne keeps saying isn't in discussions of who the best bat in the world is - sometimes in Australian summers he might be, then he tours...

As Dennis Lillee ( I think) said, if you want someone to bat for your life, you take Border...

Warne is Clarkey's mouthpiece and Ian Chappell is Warne's mouthpiece . Of course Warne is never going to talk up Steve Waugh after he dropped him from the series-deciding 4th test of the 1999 West Indies tour (which was the right decision, as Warne was averaging over 100 with the ball. Infact, MacGill had a better record than Warne in tests that they played together, but Warne was the more marketable, lucrative cricketer for the sponsors and that won out. It's a shame they never played more tests together, especially during the 2005 Ashes after McGrath got injured), and although Warne loves to mention about Australia's 1999 World Cup heroics ad nauseum in commentary, he conveniently forget it was Waugh who saved his ODI career with that 120* at Headingley and also his crucial partnership with Bevan in the semi-final at Edgbaston when we were in all sorts of trouble at 4-down, after Warne had a dummy-spit and threatened to retire after the World Cup if Australia didn't win it.

Shane Warne: one of the all-time great players, but crap person.
 

Pete Cash

Post Whore
Messages
62,165
There are a few levels of Australian batsmen

Bradman

Ponting, Chappell, Border, Waugh,etc

Clarke is in the group below this with players like Hayden. No shame in being there. That is an awesome career and he was a monster in Australia. Just not quite in the league with those fellows. That isn't a knock. He would be Bradman class in New Zealand.
 

undertaker

Coach
Messages
11,011
With Rogers, Haddin, Clarke all gone, the scary thing is thy might recall sunshine for "leadership and experience" to help out Smith

We could have a very inexperienced side for our home summer

Yeah, I was just thinking about the part in bold as well. I hope that doesn't come to fruition. As far as I'm concerned, Watson is done and dusted as both an 'all-rounder' at 6 or number 3/4 batsmen at 34yrs old. Which begs the question: do I really want to fork out $100+ for a ticket to a day at the SCG test when it goes on sale? Ticket prices have been grossly inflated for the good part of a decade, and surely Cricket Australia has got to come to the realisation that although the Boxing Day and New Year's test are their marquee revenue-making test matches, the West Indies are not the 'drawcard' they once were since the mid '90s and there could be some embarrassing substandard attendances after day 1 of the Boxing Day test.

Regarding the inexperienced side, I believe we will still beat the West Indies though. However, the test series vs New Zealand will be close. It will depend on who performs better between Starc/Johnson/Hazlewood and Boult/Henry/Southee in Brisbane and Perth, which are both traditionally fast-bowling tracks. However, I don't think Perth will have the bounce and carry that it did for the Ashes test two summers ago, as it is scheduled earlier in mid-November when the Perth weather hasn't warmed up and harden the pitch. I fear it could be similar to the Perth pitch in 2008 vs South Africa.

The day/night test in Adelaide will be a watershed moment: if it is a success and subsequently more day/night tests are scheduled not just in Australia but also around the world, it could have a big impact on tactics and the way test cricket is played.
 
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Pete Cash

Post Whore
Messages
62,165
Its interesting times for Australian cricket. I am not expecting too much from the side but I need to see them heading in the right direction. I would rather they suck it up and rip off the bandaid and just cut the Wattos of this world. For good or bad its time to build a team.
 

Tommy Smith

Referee
Messages
21,344
There are a few levels of Australian batsmen

Bradman

Ponting, Chappell, Border, Waugh,etc

Clarke is in the group below this with players like Hayden. No shame in being there. That is an awesome career and he was a monster in Australia. Just not quite in the league with those fellows. That isn't a knock. He would be Bradman class in New Zealand.
Clarke is not in the same class as Martin Crowe.

So he'd be just below the Kiwi version of Bradman class.
 

undertaker

Coach
Messages
11,011
Its interesting times for Australian cricket. I am not expecting too much from the side but I need to see them heading in the right direction. I would rather they suck it up and rip off the bandaid and just cut the Wattos of this world. For good or bad its time to build a team.

Shane "LBW" Watson has been given more than enough chances to prove his worth: first as an all-rounder, then being promoted to opening batsman in place of Phil Hughes when he was recalled during the 2009 Ashes, then at number 3, then at number 4, and now back at number 6 as an 'all-rounder', and unfortunately he simply hasn't produced the goods with the ball and has only produced the goods with the bat when there's been no pressure for him to perform (e.g. dead rubber test at The Oval in 2013), or in conditions where the ball isn't doing much in the air or off the pitch (a.k.a flat-track bully).

As someone else wrote here at the start of the Ashes, people often forget why Watson was selected in the test team in the first place back in 2005: to be an all-rounder 3rd fast bowling option which allowed Australia to play Warne and MacGill together. This became the selectors strategy after our 2005 Ashes loss, with the success England had with Flintoff as an all-rounder, the Aussie selectors thought Watson was Australia's answer to Flintoff. People also forget how quick Watson was with the ball, bowling in the mid-140's (I remember him regularly clocking 146-47km/h during the Super Series vs World XI) but after he dislocated his shoulder in his 3rd test, the opening test of the 2005/06 summer vs West Indies, he was never the same bowler, became a total plodder with the ball at test level (although his style of bowling was still useful in ODIs) and his speed dropped down to the low 130's. Subsequently, having nothing much to offer with the ball at test level, he tried to transform himself from an bowling all-rounder at #6 to a top-order batsmen as opener/#3/#4 and the transition hasn't paid dividends, other than, as I said, performing in situations where the series result was already decided and he could swing the bat with gay abandon, or on flat tracks with little to no movement nor pace off the pitch.

Funnily enough, he has actually been around for quite a long time in the ODI format: since the 2002 tour of South Africa. So, he's been around for more than 13 years at international level. I remember he replaced Steve Waugh in the middle order, who - along with Mark Waugh - were made the scapegoats of Australia failing to make the 2001/02 tri-series finals and were permanently dropped from the ODI side. That, along with Mike Hussey being excluded from the ODI series after his final test match, is one of the worst decisions the Aussie selectors have ever made.
 
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JJ

Immortal
Messages
32,636
Clarke is not in the same class as Martin Crowe.

So he'd be just below the Kiwi version of Bradman class.

Funny that Australians need to pounce on us when they've just taken back to back beatings of historical proportions...
 

billygilmore

Juniors
Messages
1,221
Shane "LBW" Watson has been given more than enough chances to prove his worth: first as an all-rounder, then being promoted to opening batsman in place of Phil Hughes when he was recalled during the 2009 Ashes, then at number 3, then at number 4, and now back at number 6 as an 'all-rounder', and unfortunately he simply hasn't produced the goods with the ball and has only produced the goods with the bat when there's been no pressure for him to perform (e.g. dead rubber test at The Oval in 2013), or in conditions where the ball isn't doing much in the air or off the pitch (a.k.a flat-track bully).

As someone else wrote here at the start of the Ashes, people often forget why Watson was selected in the test team in the first place back in 2005: to be an all-rounder 3rd fast bowling option which allowed Australia to play Warne and MacGill together. This became the selectors strategy after our 2005 Ashes loss, with the success England had with Flintoff as an all-rounder, the Aussie selectors thought Watson was Australia's answer to Flintoff. People also forget how quick Watson was with the ball, bowling in the mid-140's (I remember him regularly clocking 146-47km/h during the Super Series vs World XI) but after he dislocated his shoulder in his 3rd test, the opening test of the 2005/06 summer vs West Indies, he was never the same bowler, became a total plodder with the ball at test level (although his style of bowling was still useful in ODIs) and his speed dropped down to the low 130's. Subsequently, having nothing much to offer with the ball at test level, he tried to transform himself from an bowling all-rounder at #6 to a top-order batsmen as opener/#3/#4 and the transition hasn't paid dividends, other than, as I said, performing in situations where the series result was already decided and he could swing the bat with gay abandon, or on flat tracks with little to no movement nor pace off the pitch.

Funnily enough, he has actually been around for quite a long time in the ODI format: since the 2002 tour of South Africa. So, he's been around for more than 13 years at international level. I remember he replaced Steve Waugh in the middle order, who - along with Mark Waugh - were made the scapegoats of Australia failing to make the 2001/02 tri-series finals and were permanently dropped from the ODI side. That, along with Mike Hussey being excluded from the ODI series after his final test match, is one of the worst decisions the Aussie selectors have ever made.

Nice post, i really remember this period, watson was the next big thing but bowling wise neve lived yp to the hype. It was never that he was a great batsman and he should never ever of batted higher than 6 but he could bowl. Sadly with injurys it just became pathetic, but thats something that sticks in my mind alot with the aussies since the invincible days is our key players seem to get injured so reguarly whether it be a key batsman ie clarke at certain periods or to the detriment of out bowler, oviously say harris with his repetitove injuries or up and comers like pattinson or cummins, can you imagine if mcgrath or warne had of been injured as much as these guys, we may have misses that great era completeley. Anyway everyone seems to have the answer to the perfect aussie team at the moment so here's mine anyway, flame at will guys!!!!
1.warner, done enough to warrant a chance at least
2.kawaja, give him 10 tests straight no matter what, may not be good enough lets find out
3.burns, did enough to warrant the opertunity
4.smith, easy
5.lynn, hard choice i always compare 5 to steve waugh and to be honest not 1 batsman in world right now compares to how good he was, not so much in skill but in passion. Always like m.waugh better but always steve if it was for your life.
6.callum ferguson, more of a feeling than anything else, just has a swagger to him, i wanted him in, in the 2009 series cause for me just has that mike hussey salvage the innings or completety brake the opponent feeling to me
7.paine, just pick him and stay qith him ffs
8.johnson, for now keeps his place but does seem to be losing pace
9.hazlewood, keeps his place, just
10.bird, accurate let johnson do his thing
11.lyon, but only just. Really could just pick maxwell and be done with it, our spin stocks are just completely f**ked.

So thats my team, looking at it now looks a little much but i fel our spin stocks are totally f**ked so good luck there, fast bowlers well pick the most accurate and 1 gun wicket taker, could be johnson, starc, pattinson or cummins
Wicket keeper, well good luck there all about the same
Batsman, well who knows, only one i feel is a personal choice is ferguson and thats because i had a personal choice in wanting hussey in the twam in 2005 cause of his odi form and he ended up bwing great, i have always fwlt ferguson no matter what current form would be great for the aussiesand probably one of my first picks but i'll admit not really justified just a gut feeling.

As you can see no allrounder cause i believe your better of picking a bowler who you believe can avg under 25 or a batsman who can avg over 45 and go with that. Flintoff had a couple of good series against us but that was it was really a medocre player and it is just become a really weird thing with the aussie team wanting to replicate it.

Anyway just my thoughts, flame at will
 

BunniesMan

Immortal
Messages
33,730
The problem is his form isn't our only problem in the top 6. Rogers is close to retirement, besides Warner and Smith there is nobody who has proven themselves.
 

billygilmore

Juniors
Messages
1,221
Reading this back now really showing my qlderish inability to spell or conform to contructive senteces, sorry guys little pisses right now
 

chigurh

Guest
Messages
3,958
Good career, well played Clarkey.

Loved the debut hundred, and some of those knocks in South Africa were sublime.

To fight back from injury and the Hughes tragedy to win yet another World Cup was pretty incredible. In hindsight maybe he should have bowed out after thrashing the sheep shaggers in the final.
 
Messages
17,744
Pissweak time to announce it. Should have waited till after the next game but he had to do it in typical Clarke style and make it all about him.
 

WaznTheGreat

Referee
Messages
24,408
Mark Waugh was a better batsmen than the Clarke,Hayden's,Hussey's etc etc despite what the averages say.
 

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