Michael Clarke - Is the end very near?

[undertaker]

Also Warner. He's not been great this series but not only is he safe, I'm expecting him to be named Smiths vice-captain.

If Watson has a red line through his name and M.Marsh is clearly not up to test standard, I'd like to hope they go for either Faulkner or Henriques at 6 or 7 as the all-rounder, with Nevill batting either 6 or 7 alongside them. We could have three very young, raw top order batsmen in there during the Bangladesh tour and having a couple of guys who have been around for a while could hopefully add stability.

I don't know how spin-friendly Bangladesh pitches are, but if there is spin, it would be good to see Fawad Ahmed given a go as 2nd spinner (alongside Nathan Lyon). I haven't seen much of him, but I read his average is about 30 at First-Class level.

 

[WaznTheGreat]

We were pretty lucky to get that 70 odd from Clarke in the WC final looking back at his awful form,Kiwi's coulda had dis.

 

[Timbo]

I don't know how spin-friendly Bangladesh pitches are, but if there is spin, it would be good to see Fawad Ahmed given a go as 2nd spinner (alongside Nathan Lyon). I haven't seen much of him, but I read his average is about 30 at First-Class level.

I'm desperately hoping that O'Keefe gets the run he deserves in the post-Clarke world.

He also helps our batting.

 

[The Charlatan]

Sock is a merkin. If you're a f**kwit and want to get selected, you need to be in the league of Warne or Ganguly to level out the talent vs. merkin ratio.

 

[Red Bear]

plus from what i've heard it's not clarke preventing sok getting selected

 

[WaznTheGreat]

I find it hard to believe a captain could prevent another player from getting selected if he was good enough just because he didn't like him,if Paul Gallen said he hated Jarryd Hayne you think Hayne wouldn't get selected for Origin?

If selectors and the coach wanted SOK im sure he would play and they would ignore the midget Clarke

 

[Timbo]

There was a period of several years there where Clarke was virtually the only batsman in the side who could be counted on to score runs. His average was almost 20 runs ahead of the next man for a solid period of time. He was injury prone and the selectors surely must have been concerned about the prospects of him retiring early and earning massive dollars as a T20 mercenary.

That position would have given him significant sway that most captains wouldn't have had.

 

[Twizzle]

Also Warner. He's not been great this series but not only is he safe, I'm expecting him to be named Smiths vice-captain.

If Watson has a red line through his name and M.Marsh is clearly not up to test standard, I'd like to hope they go for either Faulkner or Henriques at 6 or 7 as the all-rounder, with Nevill batting either 6 or 7 alongside them. We could have three very young, raw top order batsmen in there during the Bangladesh tour and having a couple of guys who have been around for a while could hopefully add stability.

I heard a media reporter this morning saying MMarsh will be rushed back as Darsh was a failure and we missed MMarsh's bowling.

I rate MMarsh and I think he can become a good test all rounder but surely he deserves a few more chances or at least 1/10th as many as Watson got.

 

[The Charlatan]

I heard a media reporter this morning saying MMarsh will be rushed back as Darsh was a failure and we missed MMarsh's bowling.

I rate MMarsh and I think he can become a good test all rounder but surely he deserves a few more chances or at least 1/10th as many as Watson got.

I figure Marcus North and Watson were persisted with for years, MMarsh deserves at the least another series.

 

[TheParraboy]

I find it hard to believe a captain could prevent another player from getting selected if he was good enough just because he didn't like him,if Paul Gallen said he hated Jarryd Hayne you think Hayne wouldn't get selected for Origin?

If selectors and the coach wanted SOK im sure he would play and they would ignore the midget Clarke

What if Paul Gallan hated Simon Katich?

Averaged 50 per dig in his last 3 years of test cricket. Not good enough? Maybe it was a youth policy thing, lets bring in Rogers not long after :crazy:

 

[TheParraboy]

Clarke ran high on emotion for a period, pulled off that century in the first match at Adelaide after Phil Hughes died before succumbing to hamstring problems, then came back with two 50s in the World Cup, including 74 in the final. A shame he wasn't not out at the end, as he thoroughly deserved to finish not out at the crease with Steve Smith. He dedicated Australia's World Cup success to Hughes, and although he had the desire to continue playing until the 2017/18 Ashes, I always had huge doubts about that: not just with the chronic injuries, but more importantly whether or not he'd be able to sustain his interest and passion in cricket for another 2 1/2yrs after the profound effect Hughes' death had on him. It reminded me a lot of Greg Alexander after his brother Ben died in a car crash. Despite how talented he was and the glimpses of brilliance he showed later on at the Auckland Warriors and the fact he was still relatively young, only 27 when Ben died in 1992, Greg was never the same player after Ben's death and I think a lot of that, like Clarke, had to do with the impact the death of a close friend (and in Greg's case, his brother) had on his will and desire to want to succeed in rugby league. It's a shame the peak period of his career was cut short because of that.

Since the World Cup, it felt like Clarke's general enthusiasm and passion to play cricket has completely gone right out the window. In the 12 test innings since that century in Adelaide, he has only scored 236 runs @ 21.45, with a highest score of 47, he always looked uncomfortable at the crease when batting (not so much physically, but mentally). It'd be great if Clarke could salvage a century at The Oval, but if he bows out meekly with more low innings, it will be a shame that his playing career has been slightly tarnished by what's happened over the past year.

Great post Undertaker (as always)

Possibly sums up Clarkes mental dedication to the game over the past 12 months

He also has a little one along the way, that may also have played a part (mentally sick of the touring and being away)

 

[JJ]

Simply can't walk away from M Marsh yet - persist with him at #6 I reckon - top 5 have done f**k all, so he's not the worst, and he's bowled reasonably

 

[JJ]

Worth a read imo

http://www.espncricinfo.com/the-ashes-2015/content/story/908005.html

 

[undertaker]

Great post Undertaker (as always)

Thanks. I just do nothing more than share thoughts on various issues I have either been thinking about or have observed for a long time.

Worth a read imo

http://www.espncricinfo.com/the-ashes-2015/content/story/908005.html

Excellent article. Good find there, JJ. And how uncanny that we've mentioned Allan Border, Steve Waugh and even Ricky Ponting in this thread, and then along comes this paragraph in that article, and the part in bold which perfectly summarises why Clarke - despite all the glamour and media attention he was showered with when he burst onto the international stage with that 151 on debut - will be forever remembered in the category/group of players below Border/Waugh/Ponting/Greg Chappell with the likes of Matthew Hayden:

Runs aren't enough when you want to be a legend. You have to make special runs. Steve Waugh crisis runs. Ricky Ponting stamp-of-authority runs. Allan Border one-man-army runs. Clarke merely scored runs. Not big runs. Not attention-grabbing runs. Not clutch runs. For any other player, it would have been enough. But he didn't want to be just another player, and the fans now wanted more from him. They demanded he become the legend they, and he, wanted. Instead he was ethereal, floating around world cricket, never making any real impact at all.

Actually, somewhere on YouTube, I remember watching Harsha Bhogle doing a very interesting talk at a university in India where he talked about Vinod Kambli and players of the same ilk (players who were always talked up when they were younger to become the next big thing and who never struggled throughout their junior years), but when they made the big time they either

1) never fulfilled their potential along the way, largely attributed to not know what to do when they found themselves in trouble or unfamiliar situations of bother or

2) who were always blessed with natural ability that stood out from the crowd, dominated at 2nd tier/state/domestic level but unfortunately continued to cruise in 2nd gear when they were finally elevated to international level thinking that success would just continue to come naturally.

In that second category consists of players like Vinod Kambli, Carl Hooper, Greg Blewett, Darren Lehmann, Mark Waugh: blessed with immense natural ability and stood head and shoulders above their cohort in the 2nd tier, but unfortunately their statistics at 1st tier/international level never reflected their ability.

P.S. Found it, here's an excerpt from that talk for those who are interested:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_8VKDA53To

 

[undertaker]

other interesting comments from the cricinfo article:

ON AUGUST 10, 2015, 1:35 GMT

Australians as a whole tend not to like people who get given something they haven't earned. And Clarke was given his baggy green well before he'd earned it. But a lot of other players put in the hard yards, and made mountains of runs, and were never given the opportunities Clarke was. Brad Hodge and David Hussey are two good examples during Clarke's playing years. And for many years Clarke scored his runs on the back of the top order scoring a mountain, or in the second innings when the match had already been won. Sure, he looked pretty, but far, far too often he merely looked pretty when what was needed was gritty. He was a divisive figure both in public and in the dressing rooms, and was pushed by the NSW cabal from very early on in his career.

ONEEYEDAUSSIE ON AUGUST 10, 2015, 0:47 GMT

Interesting article. I think Clarke's problems over the years are similar to Pietersen's - both were highly talented introverts in an extroverts world. Because of that they are naturally divisive figures - not intentionally but due to their disregard of extrovert convention that arises from their personality.
Both were also quite sensitive. This is shown up in both their longings for acceptance into an establish they don't really understand. I recall Pietersen's continual bemusement at other's dislike of him. Clarke of course was not as abrasive publically - but the incidences with Katich, the retirements of Ponting and Hussey, the feuding with Watson. and his breakdown of relations with the selectors are black marks on his record

DACHA ON AUGUST 9, 2015, 6:25 GMT

For those who don't know, 1. the whispers that JK alludes to, constantly being in conflict with team mates, the ones that became public, Andrew Symonds, Simon Katich, Ricky Ponting, Mike Hussey, Shane Watson; the ones that didn't, Mathew Wade, Glen Maxwell, James Faulkner and Peter Siddle.
2. The mirror to Australian society, unlike Sth. Africa, England and India, Australia's sporting society is very anti authoritarian, if you want to be authoritarian, good luck but you'd better get it right every time and you'd better be prepared to be disliked for your own sake.
3. Clarke and selection, the list of players sacrificed by Clarke because he didn't like them is endless, the obvious ones are the players from the top list, but there's a secondary list of guys that played one or two tests and disappeared. Bowlers not used or given fields that couldn't be bowled to, batsmen played out of position to protect Clarke at 5. Blaming selectors for the team when it lost, not his captaincy.

I wasn't aware Clarke had a feud with Hussey, or that he played a role in Ponting's demise

 

[TheParraboy]

michael-clarke-eroded-australias-team-culture-john-buchanan-20150810-giw4nj

Former Australian national coach John Buchanan says the team's famed `Baggy Green' culture deteriorated under captain Michael Clarke's watch.

Clarke announced his retirement from cricket at the end of the series after Australia's fourth Test Ashes defeat to England, and has since come in for criticism from a number of former teammates including Matthew Hayden and Andrew Symonds.

Buchanan weighed into the affair by praising the departing skipper's service, but said a young Clarke failed to buy into Australia's team culture

"Players like Steve Waugh, Adam Gilchrist, Ricky Ponting and others really tried to make the 'Baggy Green' culture something special, but I could sense it was under threat and under Michael's captaincy I can sense it has disappeared a bit and that disappointed me," he told News Corp.

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"I can remember guys like Hayden and (Justin) Langer sitting him down in a corner and trying to get him to understand what we were trying to achieve.

"There were times when I felt Michael did not understand or did not want to understand."

Buchanan's comments follow Hayden's claim that Clarke "ruffled feathers" and Symonds' view that he was not a "natural leader" in the mould of former Test captains

 

[TheParraboy]

I disagree that Clarke didn't make any real impact in the runs department

that 161 in South Africa in 2014 against the best pace attack in the world went a long way to securing the series there. He also made 151 (we were all out 284) in the 1st test over there in 2011 came in at 3/40 with the ball going nuts off the deck. His first test ton in India went a good way to winning us the series there.

Agree he hasn't been no where near as good as he could have been in some parts of the world, and also the last 12 months, but he has made some brilliant knocks , that meant a lot


Also soon after Clarke inherited the captaincy he was like Allan Border in a way, a lone man show with the bat

 

[The Mad Hatter]

I never trusted Clarke because he didn't drink or carry a form guide around in his pocket.

Never one of "us", never will be.

 

[The Charlatan]

I have mixed feelings about him, but what I cannot stand is that only now former players/coaches and the media are lining up to kick the bloke as he's on his way out.

If you've always felt like this, raise it. Don't wait for the bloke to hang up the pads before you get stuck into him.

 

[Canard]

michael-clarke-eroded-australias-team-culture-john-buchanan-20150810-giw4nj

These rings true, and to me seems an extension of the Shane Warne view on things.

Like how Warney constantly bemoans the wearing of the Baggy Green in the first innings in the field.

I feel also it was a case of a promotion to Captain due to lack of other options at the time. But he may have grown into it later on, and this was something that the older brigade weren't around to see.

He does seem to have shat on some people on the way up though, and they are getting there comeuppance now.