Money Money Money, must be funny, in a rich clubs world

[Aries]

At the moment, souths juniors has nothing to do with souths football club apart from the 500k cash injection each year!

There is no representative of souths junior on the board, and there is actually plenty of bad blood between the two..........It looks like they will have alot more to do with the club next year though due to the fact they will probably have atleast one representative on the board!

But at the moment they are 2 different entitys with little more than a cash agreement holding them together

Thats what yappy was saying about their junior set up I think cheese. Different and seperate...

Mind you, it isn't a good formular so far is it! Where are both clubs running, consistantly...

 

[cheese]

yup......a very poor agreement indeed! You'd think that embracing the juniors would be the smart thing to do! Ah well ....their loss is our gain i suppose..

 

[yappy]

Yeah, but Souths Juniors (a Leagues Club) is a different entity to South Sydney Junior Rugby League (I would assume) although obviously associated entities.

But to get back to the topic, even if a clear mil is taken off the Panthers bottom line for juniors what are they spending the 2 mil more than the clubs that get by on 8 on? As reefy seems to be insinuating this extra dough plays a big part in success. I'm inclined to agree, but what exactly is this x factor that makes the difference between champs and their poor cousin also rans? Clearly the size of your bank balance doesn't matter - you have to actually spend the dough on things that help the team perform. For instance Wests Tigers spent who knows how much (some put it at over $14 mil) in 2000 for stuff all return. What are the Pennies buying with their extra $2mil? Is it just extra coaches or what? As someone with a deep interest in how the off field set up affects on field performance I'd love to know.

 

[cheese]

hmmm ....good point yappy! What exactly is the x factor?!

In comparison to most other junior leagues i'd say that the penrith JL would cost a hell of alot more to run than say, the cronulla/sutherland JL, just for the sheer size difference.......... The more players you have running around, the more money its going to cost!

But still ......what the f**k are they spending the extra on.........ground maintenance? profressional coaches for junior clubs? Elite development program? .......i'd like to know

 

[yappy]

it does get the old thinker tickin doesn't it cheese.

In a salary cap environment it can't be going into the players pockets (I hope - and actually believe - any infringments these days are just fiddling around the edges and hardly likely to explain away $2mil - besides the Panthers of 2003 would hardly rate as a salary cap assisted side).

So where oh where have our millions gone? I know Penrith have a fantastic indoor training facility, but that's capital, not recurrent spending. Is it just that they have full time coaches looking after all of their youngsters? (surely no where near $2mil though)

It's particularly interesting discussing this with Sharks as 1. Your old coach (assumedly) has found this dough has taken him (at least in part) from 'almost but not quite' to 'you the man', and 2. with Opes at the club you would assume he would know exactly what this x factor is and so is trying to implement it at the club (even in a scaled down version if finances don't permit the full glory). Surely you can't go down to the shop and find a nice shiny 'winning culture' with a $2 000 000 tag on it. Clearly this money is being spent on mundane things that combined add up to success - what I want is the shopping list. ;-)

 

[blacktip-reefy]

There is nothing there Yappy.
Football clubs are designed to run at a loss for tax minimisation.

One can't take Cowans response that there is not 5 million there for the Footy, when theres a few mill there for his private marketing company.
He would hung up from the posts & Panthers Feild & burned.

Run all expenses through the footy club.

A bitharder for the teams without clubs i.e. Melbourne, Broncs etc.

 

[yappy]

mate do you really think it's just laundering dirty leagues club expenditure?

Hey i know football clubs have no real need to turn a profit having no shareholders, but they still have to file reports, and reasonably in depth ones at that. Leagues Clubs also have no need to turn a profit for the same reason. Why launder expenditure through the footy club when you can do it as easily through the leagues club? Sh*t Cowan has such a tight grip on Panthers he could be charging a weekly visit to his favourite brothel on the credit card and no one would bat an eye.

I'd be stunned if the 11 mil the Panthers spent winning the comp this year wasn't all footy related in some way or other.

 

[blacktip-reefy]

That's notwhat I'm saying.

What I am saying is , if it is 11 mill or 5 Mill it is just a figure.

A figure that is worked out last after everything has been added up.
The "flexible" areas(grants, donations, special payments, loans etc.) are then filled out to provide the optimum final amount.

Hell, thats how my tax is done.

 

[yappy]

:lol: :lol: :lol: you'll have to send me your accountants number then. Hopefully one day I'll have enough income to go to all the bother.

but I still don't buy it mate. Sure books can be cooked - who knows, maybe there is $2mil worth of depreciation or something on the books, but at the end of the day all of the suppliers, and players, and employees have to be paid with real actual Australian currency. Are you saying the real expenditure figure for the Panthers is something way short of the $11mil the article is claiming? If so how much exactly?

See that's always been my problem. I can't see how, in an environment where your major expenditure is capped at $3.25 mil, you can realistically need too much more than around the $8 mil mark. It's the old law of diminshing return, after a certain point the extra expenditure just doesn't give you enough benefit to be worth it. Sure you could buy the players more expensive track suits - but will that make any difference to how they perform?

Are you saying that Penrith aren't spending any more on their actual football operations than anyone else (ie Cronulla) or not Reefy?

 

[The Popper]

& i asked Popper to chime in & explain it in another thread, but the "cheese Heads" are a classic case of an option to smaller clubs in the same geographic location.
C'mon popper, you are a cheese head hey?

What the heck are you talking about, Blacktip. Explain what? You musta said something I missed? And no, I don't follow the Green Bay Packers.

 

[blacktip-reefy]

Yappy

I'm no accountant either & oftern get confused by the amount of options available to "configure" incomes.
Yeah I am saying that the Panthers spend no more than most clubs on players.
I don't however think that the Sharks spend the full amount available to them under the cap. At present.

Lets say Panthers had transferred the 2.5 mill to the football club at the start of the year. & now they go ahead & win. All tht extra income.
If they make a profit it is taxable at the company rate.
There are better thing for panthers to do with the money rather than pay tax on the profit, so at the end of the year they change the amount so that the football club runs at a loss.
I hope an accountant is here somewhere to better explain this.

& Popper. Sorry I thought you were a cheese head & would be able to tell all about the packers success story & how a small area developed into an NFL powerhouse through smart front office & an adoring community.

 

[Aries]

& Popper. Sorry I thought you were a cheese head & would be able to tell all about the packers success story & how a small area developed into an NFL powerhouse through smart front office & an adoring community.

Thank f**k you explained the 'cheese head' thing... the only cheese head I ever heard of was a 'cheese head screw' that I use to use in my trade...

Now that you say that, I can remember idiots running around with cheese hats on their heads from the US in the news some time ago...

 

[blacktip-reefy]

The Cheese heads are the names given to the packers fans.
Thats the Green Bay Packers an NFL team.

The Packers come from a town 1/2 the size of the shire.
Around 100k people.
Yet, the team is a powerhouse.
They have not had a ticket available in their stadium to see a game since 1960!
Yes you read it right. 1960!!! 42 years of the stadiumk being filled to capacity. It used to hold aroung 50 k but now it holds 75k

With only 100k people in the town, gameday would be a good day to do a bank job.

If you would like to purchase a season ticket(the only ones for sale) you will have to put your name on a waiting list. But don't hold your breath. I think you may have to wait up to 20 years. But as people die, they do become available because of the very, very strict rules regarding succession. & then the successor has to agree to the terms & payments.

Don't ya wish the Sharks could be something like that!!

 

[Aries]

The Cheese heads are the names given to the packers fans.
Thats the Green Bay Packers an NFL team.

The Packers come from a town 1/2 the size of the shire.
Around 100k people.
Yet, the team is a powerhouse.
They have not had a ticket available in their stadium to see a game since 1960!
Yes you read it right. 1960!!! 42 years of the stadiumk being filled to capacity. It used to hold aroung 50 k but now it holds 75k

With only 100k people in the town, gameday would be a good day to do a bank job.

If you would like to purchase a season ticket(the only ones for sale) you will have to put your name on a waiting list. But don't hold your breath. I think you may have to wait up to 20 years. But as people die, they do become available because of the very, very strict rules regarding succession. & then the successor has to agree to the terms & payments.

Don't ya wish the Sharks could be something like that!!

Well, unfortunately, I think most ppl in the shire actually have a life ;-)

 

[blacktip-reefy]

There is probably more to do in the lake michigan area than the Shire.

 

[Aries]

There is probably more to do in the lake michigan area than the Shire.

Doesn't seem like it mate, they all go to the footy ;-)

Or is the area 100 miles from anywhere?

The Shire is in a BIG city reefy, or didn't you notice... look out the window mate... see the lights in the North, thats Sydney...

 

[blacktip-reefy]

How come I always get you at the bottom of the bottle??!!!

 

[Aries]

How come I always get you at the bottom of the bottle??!!!

Come on, dont change the subject...

Look out the window... it isn't hard, you can do it reefy!!

Next step is to go outside mate

 

[blacktip-reefy]

OK

 

[Aries]

The Cheese heads are the names given to the packers fans.
Thats the Green Bay Packers an NFL team.

The Packers come from a town 1/2 the size of the shire.
Around 100k people.
Yet, the team is a powerhouse.
They have not had a ticket available in their stadium to see a game since 1960!
Yes you read it right. 1960!!! 42 years of the stadiumk being filled to capacity. It used to hold aroung 50 k but now it holds 75k

With only 100k people in the town, gameday would be a good day to do a bank job.

If you would like to purchase a season ticket(the only ones for sale) you will have to put your name on a waiting list. But don't hold your breath. I think you may have to wait up to 20 years. But as people die, they do become available because of the very, very strict rules regarding succession. & then the successor has to agree to the terms & payments.

Don't ya wish the Sharks could be something like that!!

The population of Green Bay is similar to the shire actually reefy...
as at 2002 it was 232,185 and that is just Green Bay. http://recenter.tamu.edu/Data/popm/pm3080.htm

It's like having a team in Newcastle for the Hunter area for size and ignoring the rest of the areas around Newcastle, to state what you did mate, except the population of that overall area is more than Sydney. It is a small state team...
Map of Wisconsin... http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/nytmaps.pl?wisconsin

Wisconsin Population... 5,461,710 as at 2002...
http://www.dhfs.state.wi.us/population/02demog/wisconsin.htm

I can verify that the "sold out since the 60's" part is right though... ;-)
http://www.packers.com/fans/ look at the "Did you know" section...