More Sydney clubs will merge within the next decade - Gould

[GongPanther]

Sydney Cedars, - The f**k? Will a tree be a mascot?

Oh FFS, leaf it alone.

 

[unforgiven]

There could, but living here it seems unlikely to me. West of Blacktown is ours all the way out to Dubbo. Being an area of new housing estates, you are going to get those moving in from other areas and supporting other teams, but we eventually get their kids anyway, especially if we're going well.

Rubbish, I live here as well, have taught in schools here for 20 years. There are far more supporters of other clubs than Panthers supporters.

 

[rabbitohs]

Aint going to happen anytime soon. But if it was to happen:
- Canterbury to merge with Manly
- Bankstown to merge with Warringah
- St George Illawarra with Wests Tigers to be named St George Balmain Western Suburbs Illawarra Dragon-Magpie Steel Tiger, to play at Campbelltown, Leichhardt, Kogarah, Wollongong and train at Concord.
- Cronulla with Roosters
- Penrith with Parramatta
- Kick Souths and Manly out

Simple

So you merged Manly AND booted them!

Good enough for the bastards!

 

[TheFrog]

Rubbish, I live here as well, have taught in schools here for 20 years. There are far more supporters of other clubs than Panthers supporters.

Maybe they should have that survey then because that's not my experience living in the district.

 

[unforgiven]

Maybe they should have that survey then because that's not my experience living in the district.

You really think there are more Penrith supporters than all other clubs combined in the Penrith catchment area?

 

[TheFrog]

You really think there are more Penrith supporters than all other clubs combined in the Penrith catchment area?

In the Penrith local government area probably. Could be wrong but they seem to be out there.

What proportion of Newcastle league fans support the Knights? What proportion of Canberra league fans support the Raiders? Why should Penrith be any different?

 

[The Great Dane]

In the Penrith local government area probably. Could be wrong but they seem to be out there.

What proportion of Newcastle league fans support the Knights? What proportion of Canberra league fans support the Raiders? Why should Penrith be any different?

Honestly there're probably more fans of other teams in Canberra then Raiders fans, but the largest group of fans for an individual team in Canberra is the Raiders by far.

That's almost certainly true of every other market as well.

 

[unforgiven]

Honestly there're probably more fans of other teams in Canberra then Raiders fans, but the largest group of fans for an individual team in Canberra is the Raiders by far.

That's almost certainly true of every other market as well.

That was all I was trying to say, Canberra also doesn't have other teams 45 mins away. I wasn't trying to have a go at the Panthers, just stating what is quite clearly obvious when you walk the streets of Penrith. I think looking at the NRL gear I see people wearing about 1 in 4 would be Panthers gear.

 

[siv]

Sydney Cedars, - The f**k? Will a tree be a mascot?

They were the old Sydney Bulls actually

 

[ReddFelon]

I don’t understand why all sporting codes are so obsessed with the Gold Coast. How many more awful clubs need to exist there till they finally understand that nobody on the Coast cares about sport.

This is vastly incorrect, of the 700,000 people living here plenty care about sport. There's a reason local comps in League, Union, AFL, Soccer, Hockey, etc. Are fielding 12-18 clubs with 3 grades worth of seniors in each comp.

The problem lies squarely with the Titans management doing zero community engagement. A ton of GC schools with QSSRL and QISSRL clubs and they do nothing to bring them on board.

Suns are in the same boat, the Southport Sharks wanted to be admitted into the AFL since 1996, they have 30,000 paying members and are the most successful QLD club in that sport. Geniuses in marketing decided to make a meaningless brand. Titans are the same, 16 clubs playing in the RLGC comp, Burleigh Bears are an iconic club, NRL could've simply promoted Burleigh and they would've had a long term dedicated fanbase, instead they went with a brand no one identifies with.

 

[flippikat]

16 clubs playing in the RLGC comp, Burleigh Bears are an iconic club, NRL could've simply promoted Burleigh and they would've had a long term dedicated fanbase, instead they went with a brand no one identifies with.

Weren't the Bears one of the bidders to buy the Titans off the NRL a few years ago? It would have made a lot of sense to do that, let Burleigh rebrand the logo & colours and just get on with building a successful GC club at the top tier.

 

[unforgiven]

This is vastly incorrect, of the 700,000 people living here plenty care about sport. There's a reason local comps in League, Union, AFL, Soccer, Hockey, etc. Are fielding 12-18 clubs with 3 grades worth of seniors in each comp.

The problem lies squarely with the Titans management doing zero community engagement. A ton of GC schools with QSSRL and QISSRL clubs and they do nothing to bring them on board.

Suns are in the same boat, the Southport Sharks wanted to be admitted into the AFL since 1996, they have 30,000 paying members and are the most successful QLD club in that sport. Geniuses in marketing decided to make a meaningless brand. Titans are the same, 16 clubs playing in the RLGC comp, Burleigh Bears are an iconic club, NRL could've simply promoted Burleigh and they would've had a long term dedicated fanbase, instead they went with a brand no one identifies with.

Problem with that is you end up alienating supporters of the other clubs that competed against the teams you promote. That is why soccer has so many teams called united.

 

[soc123_au]

That was all I was trying to say, Canberra also doesn't have other teams 45 mins away. I wasn't trying to have a go at the Panthers, just stating what is quite clearly obvious when you walk the streets of Penrith. I think looking at the NRL gear I see people wearing about 1 in 4 would be Panthers gear.

Historically I agree with you regarding the team merchandise people wear. I have noticed a shift in the last 10 years or so though. A trip to the local shopping centre (Emu Plains) on a Saturday morning and it would be unusual not to see a dozen or more people wearing Panthers gear. Maybe 3 or 4 wearing other teams gear. These are just my observations, I'll also concede that being a die hard Panthers fan I'm more likely to notice their merch that the crap supporters of shit teams wear.

 

[unforgiven]

Historically I agree with you regarding the team merchandise people wear. I have noticed a shift in the last 10 years or so though. A trip to the local shopping centre (Emu Plains) on a Saturday morning and it would be unusual not to see a dozen or more people wearing Panthers gear. Maybe 3 or 4 wearing other teams gear. These are just my observations, I'll also concede that being a die hard Panthers fan I'm more likely to notice their merch that the crap supporters of shit teams wear.

I will agree that I am starting to see more Panthers gear around, maybe we should sit outside the plaza and conduct a poll lol

 

[ReddFelon]

Problem with that is you end up alienating supporters of the other clubs that competed against the teams you promote. That is why soccer has so many teams called united.

Hard disagree, everyone outside of Fremantle hated the Sharks and the Bulldogs WAFL clubs. Yet the Fremantle Dockers draw a fanbase across WA.

Even if promoting the Bears would alienate other supporters, no one is supporting the Titans. They've gained no one and lost everyone.

 

[The Great Dane]

Hard disagree, everyone outside of Fremantle hated the Sharks and the Bulldogs WAFL clubs. Yet the Fremantle Dockers draw a fanbase across WA.

Even if promoting the Bears would alienate other supporters, no one is supporting the Titans. They've gained no one and lost everyone.

The Titans have only failed because of chronic mismanagement.

Putting aside the fact that the Bears would have alienated a huge portion of the market when they were starting out as an NRL club, if the Burleigh Bears had got the license and were run exactly the same as the Titans have been, then they'd be in the exact same position as the Titans are now.

BTW, your Fremantle example is an argument for independent branding.

 

[ReddFelon]

The Titans have only failed because of chronic mismanagement.

Putting aside the fact that the Bears would have alienated a huge portion of the market when they were starting out as an NRL club, if the Burleigh Bears had got the license and were run exactly the same as the Titans have been, then they'd be in the exact same position as the Titans are now.

BTW, your Fremantle example is an argument for independent branding.

Yes if the Bears refused to be active in the community, they would also have no fans.

Not really as Freo up until about ten years ago almost exclusively drew from those two supporter groups because they were directly affiliated. It expanded outward after the 10-15 years of being identified with by two big supporter groups.

 

[big hit!]

The Titans have only failed because of chronic mismanagement.

Putting aside the fact that the Bears would have alienated a huge portion of the market when they were starting out as an NRL club, if the Burleigh Bears had got the license and were run exactly the same as the Titans have been, then they'd be in the exact same position as the Titans are now.

BTW, your Fremantle example is an argument for independent branding.

QLD govt charged them and arm and a leg for Robina. They had to recoup that with higher ticket prices. They also tried to grow too fast with their centre of excellence, and ended up dudding the community when cashflow dried up, failing to pay local contractors.

Rugby League had a greater chance to succeed on the Gold Coast/Tweed/Northern Rivers than AFL does. If the above was different, they could be doing alright. Now, they need to pay overs to get anyone in there. Cartwright on 800k per season? f**k me! It's a shit position for any club. I'm watching Sunderland til I die on netflix and they had the same problem the last few seasons they were in the premier league. f**ked them royally. They're a team with a 50k stadium (9th largest in England) and playing League 1 (Div 3) football now. Then you have a perennial lower-tier club like Brentford who are doing the moneyball thing, realising they can't do things the same way as bigger clubs so need to find their niche. They're within reach of a playoff spot for the premier league (if the championship restarts).

Canberra have done the same with their recruiting strategy, bringing in good value English players or discards from other clubs.

 

[The Great Dane]

Yes if the Bears refused to be active in the community, they would also have no fans.

So you agree that the Titans issue isn't them not being an old club with a storied history and pre-existing fanbase, it's poor management.

So really there's every chance that if the Bears had been promoted that they'd be in the exact same position that the Titans are in, if not worse.

Not really as Freo up until about ten years ago almost exclusively drew from those two supporter groups because they were directly affiliated. It expanded outward after the 10-15 years of being identified with by two big supporter groups.

Yes really!

If instead of introducing the neutral Dockers brand the AFL had promoted either the Sharks or Bulldogs brands, all those people whom "hated" the Sharks and/or Bulldogs would have refused to support them, i.e. it would have alienated the majority of the fan base that now makes up the Dockers fan base, and at the very least the team would be a tiny shadow of what it now is.

The Canberra Raiders are effectively just an extension of the Queanbeyan Blues. If instead of creating the Raiders brand they had just keep the Blues brand then 60-80% of the Raiders initial fan base (including myself) would have just outright refused to support the team, and they would have gone broke very quickly.

If a team is looking for promotion into a national competition and they refuse to create an neutral brand then they shouldn't be accepted into the competition, because they've just demonstrated beyond a shadow of a doubt that either they aren't interested in creating a team for the whole market or that they are poorly managed.