Nathan Brown: Don't blame him for underachieving Saints

[Broncodroid]

Why is Nathan Brown a NRL 1st grade coach?

In 2003, Nathan Brown as a rookie NRL Coach; 24G, 11W, 13L, 548For, 593Ag, 26pts and 10th on the ladder. Brisbane on 28pts scraped into the top 8.

In 2004, Nathan Brown in his second year NRL Coaching sting; 24G, 14W, 10L, 624For, 415Ag, 30pts and good for 5th on the ladder missing the top 4 by 2pts.

In 2 seasons, he has improved...injuries aside, he has improved and this cannot be taken away from him as I'd imagine his employers would be happy with this..

Let's go back to the Waite era (the last time this team appeared in a GF) up until today:

Waite - 1999: 24G - 15W - 9L - 0D - 2B - 588F - 416A - 34pts (6th - GF)

Waite - 2000: 26G - 12W - 14L - 0D - 0B - 576F - 656A - 24pts (9th)

Farrar - 2001: 26G - 12W - 12L - 2D - 0B - 661F - 573A - 26pts (7th)

Farrar - 2002: 24G - 9W - 12L - 3D - 2B - 632F - 546A - 25pts (7th)

Brown - 2003: 24G - 11W - 13L - 0D - 2B - 548F - 593A - 26pts (10th)

Brown - 2004: 24G - 14W - 10L - 0D - 2B - 624F - 415A - 30pts (5th)

Nathan Brown after his first season as St George coach is the only one in recent times to get his players to rebound, he improved in the win column, loss column, points for, points against and was 4pts from the top 4 where there 5th placing was the highest placing from the Dragons since 1999 was 6th were they made a GF. I might add, the Saints defence in 2004 never looked better and they were 2nd only to the Roosters.

David Waite after the GF did not improve in any catergory and rightly or wrongly was fired.

Andrew Farrar improved the Dragons 2 places up the competiton ladder after Waite. A good start in his first season. In his second season, like Waite, he did not improve, the team went backwards.

Along comes Nathan Brown who endured a tough rookie season where the team fell out of the finals coming in 10th. In his second season as stated, in every important catergory he improved which his predacessors in recent times were not able too.

Nathan Brown is a young coach who belongs in the NRL, IMO he will be in the competition for some time yet and he is still learning on the job.

The last couple of years the "experts" tip them to finish first, or at least high on the ladder. They don't.

Is Nathan Brown to blame for experts rating his team, this is out of his control. It is true, on paper in recent times, the Dragons are world beaters. So is Brisbane, so was NZ heading into 2004 according to most. Though look at 2004 and the key Dragon player appearances:

Luke Bailey: 6 starts - 1 bench
Mark Gasnier: 12 starts
Jason Ryles: 12 starts - 2 bench
Nathan Blacklock: 13 starts
Lance Thompson: 15 starts - 1 bench
Trent Barrett: 16 starts
Shaun Timmins: 20 starts
Ben Hornby: 23 starts
Matt Cooper: 23 starts
Matt Head: 23 starts
Mark Riddell: 23 starts - 1 bench

Nathan Brown blooded alot of young talent who responded to his coaching and got the job done more often than not. A sign of a good coach (look to R2 vs NZ as a starting point perhaps when the Warriors were touted world beaters by the same experts).

Again, I tipped the Dragons as 2004 premieres this time last season. I was wrong, though I applaud the season from Brown. Yes, he has some improving to do, most coaches in this business do barring the premiership winning coach and I am not saying he is the best coach in the NRL, he is far from it. Though Nathan Brown has had a healthy start to his 1st grade career with a chop changing line-up almost weekly which tells me he has the club going in the right direct from the juniors to 1st grade.

The coach can do all he can to get his players up mentally for a game, I agree this is the coaches responsibility, though he Nathan Brown is not out there missing tackles, dropping balls and taking the wrong option. That falls back to the players people.

I will go on record and say Brown will re-sign with the Dragons next season for another 2-3 years if he has not done so by the off-season. The Dragons could do alot worse than betting on an up and coming coach.

 

[dontmakemeangry]

Hay Droid these stats after stats you produce means JACKSHIT!(with all due respect)

How about speaking from the heart instead of continually reciting from a stat book!

He can't coach and the last two seasons have proven this.

Injured players usually go one of two ways.

They are busting their arses to get back into a side that they can't wait to be part of or they dilly dally in their rehab and come back when they like.(in the dragons case it seems to be the latter)

Coach Brown should show a lot more close scrutiny on his injured stars.

INSTEAD OF THE RACE TRACK!

 

[RifRaf]

Hes still young. He will be a good coach just needs some years under his belt.

So are you Saints fans willing to wait a couple more years till Nathan gets enough experience?

 

[RifRaf]

I will go on record and say Brown will resign with the Dragons next season for another 2-3 years if he has not done so by the off-season. The Dragons could do alot worse than betting on an up and coming coach.

I think your right Bronc he will RESIGN or be sacked... Perhaps you meant re-sign... Am I splitting hairs or was that a freudian slip?

 

[Stagger eel]

Personally I think Nathan should have cut his teeth in the lower grades for a few more years.
I think he needs to not be one of the boys with his players, something he probably found hard to achieve considering how recent his departure from the team as a player occoured.

I am extremely biased against Brown, but I have tried to be impartial.

I agree,

all the best coach's had some sort of Apprentership, whether it was Premier league or Queensland cup or even the country, I felt it was essentual for any coach to spen atleast 2 to 3 seasons either coaching at that level or as an assistant to an experianced and succesful first grade coach.

 

[Stranger]

Hay Droid these stats after stats you produce means JACKSHIT!(with all due respect)

How about speaking from the heart instead of continually reciting from a stat book!

He can't coach and the last two seasons have proven this.

Injured players usually go one of two ways.

They are busting their arses to get back into a side that they can't wait to be part of or they dilly dally in their rehab and come back when they like.(in the dragons case it seems to be the latter)

Coach Brown should show a lot more close scrutiny on his injured stars.

INSTEAD OF THE RACE TRACK!

Mate stats dont lie

 

[Mr Saab]

[
I'll lay claim to that quote Bronc! I think he's crap! Inconsistancy is a sure sign of a badly coached side and even with their *STARS* on board they were very inconsistant. I think he's overly emotional also and just not up to scratch.

he is far too emotional.
He needs to take a leaf out of Bennett, Folkes, and Anderson....Poker faces.

What about Stuart. He's emotional, yet he's a super coach

says who? its not like that club was struggling when he took over was it?
Look at Graham Murray with the Cowboys...he took a poor team to within 1 minute of a GF spot in 2004 in the space of 3 yrs.
Stuart took over a team built by Gould and Murray.

 

[Tommy Smith]

[
I'll lay claim to that quote Bronc! I think he's crap! Inconsistancy is a sure sign of a badly coached side and even with their *STARS* on board they were very inconsistant. I think he's overly emotional also and just not up to scratch.

he is far too emotional.
He needs to take a leaf out of Bennett, Folkes, and Anderson....Poker faces.

What about Stuart. He's emotional, yet he's a super coach

says who? its not like that club was struggling when he took over was it?
Look at Graham Murray with the Cowboys...he took a poor team to within 1 minute of a GF spot in 2004 in the space of 3 yrs.
Stuart took over a team built by Gould and Murray.

Actually we were struggling. The previous year under Murray we bombed out in the first week of the finals. But more important to note is that we had a reasonably soft forward pack and were a woeful defensive side, regularly conceding 40 points a game. Heading into 2002, many people thought we wouldn't even make the finals. But as we know Sticky won us the comp, which probably wasnt as impressive as his ability to turn a weak forward pack and soft defensive team into one of the most brutal, defensive teams we've seen for a long time IN THE SPACE OF ONE YEAR.

 

[Mr Saab]

mmm and who was the player that helped turn the forward pack around? Morley...and who brought in Morley? Murray.
Easts had an avg yr 2001, but there was alot of unrest begind the scenes which resulted in the roosters ppor yr. Alot of in house fighting.
The yr b4 that the chooks made the GF for the 1st time since 1980.

 

[Tommy Smith]

mmm and who was the player that helped turn the forward pack around? Morley...and who brought in Morley? Murray.
Easts had an avg yr 2001, but there was alot of unrest begind the scenes which resulted in the roosters ppor yr. Alot of in house fighting.
The yr b4 that the chooks made the GF for the 1st time since 1980.

Im not arguing the fact that Murray brought Morley to the Roosters. The point that i was making was that the Roosters were struggling heading into the 2002 season and that Stuart's 3 consecutive GF's are not just because he inherited a side built by Stuart and Gould.

Stuart added a mental and physical toughness to ALL the players (so it certainly wasnt just the addition of Morley) that Gould nor Murray could provide. Whether they laid the platform or not - in terms of playing ranks - Stuart still did what they couldnt which was make the team a fantastic defensive unit.

 

[Broncodroid]

I will go on record and say Brown will resign with the Dragons next season for another 2-3 years if he has not done so by the off-season. The Dragons could do alot worse than betting on an up and coming coach.

I think your right Bronc he will RESIGN or be sacked... Perhaps you meant re-sign... Am I splitting hairs or was that a freudian slip?

Cheers RifRaf, I meant re-sign ;-) I will edit in a moment.

Hay Droid these stats after stats you produce means JACKSHIT!(with all due respect)

How about speaking from the heart instead of continually reciting from a stat book!

He can't coach and the last two seasons have proven this.

Injured players usually go one of two ways.

They are busting their arses to get back into a side that they can't wait to be part of or they dilly dally in their rehab and come back when they like.(in the dragons case it seems to be the latter)

Coach Brown should show a lot more close scrutiny on his injured stars.

INSTEAD OF THE RACE TRACK!

First of all, do not question where I am coming from champ. I happen to believe in the majority of cases (not all) that stats don't lie. "Reciting" from a stat book as you call it helps give substance to my argument unlike yourself (with all due respect) who is sprouting jibberish from the top of his head with little evidence barring a stupid analogy which is in itself comical (with all due respect).

The last 2 seasons have not proven he cannot coach in the NRL, it is quite the opposite. The Dragons came 5th in 2004, 4pts from the top 4 improving in all facets of their game in comparison to Brown's rookie season in 2003 for crying out loud. Again, their defence was 2nd in the NRL to the Sydney Roosters. Hmm, can't coach :roll: I would perhaps side with the majority if he again missed the 8, though I unlike most will give credit where credit is due. The team improved, his employers have to be happy with this given the injuries to key players.

Your analogy on injured players is incorrect, whilst it may of sounded good when you read back to yourself, it is way off target.

I would argue that ALL players in the NRL when injured are "busting their ass" in rehab to come back from injury, yes, including the Dragons players who are forever injured. What you are insinuating does not deserve a rebuff as there is no truth behind this statement. Argue all you like, though I will not believe for a minute guys like Ryles, Bailey (who came back against doctors orders defying their 'season ending injury' claim to play for the Dragons in the finals) etc. are sitting on the sideline a little longer because of Nathan Brown and the culture he has created at the Dragons. They are on the sideline listening to medic advice (besides Luke Bailey who came back earlier than expected) getting rehab in hope that they will be backer sooner rather than later. This is their job, this is what they are paid to do and if you truly believe this of the Dragons injured players, you are sadly misguided.

I will also add, I am a passionate Rugby League fan first, Bronco fan second. Do not question where I am speaking from when discussing Rugby League. Quoting stats does not rule me out from 'speaking from the heart'. Like your analogy on injuries, your way off target here.

Tell me...WHY is Nathan Brown a bad coach? All evidence points to Nathan Brown being a good NRL coach who was able to turn around a disappointing 2003. Enlighten me.

 

[drake]

As a Dragons fan, I do cringe every time I hear or see Browny in the media. He does sound like a dumb waxhead. The truth is though, he has improved the team.
I enjoyed this year far more than the previous seasons that's for sure.

I would like him to be a bit more professional in his dress, manner and behaviour, and hopefully this will roll onto any players with a "she'll be right attitude."
I think the fella needs a stronger hand guiding him, so that if he does screw up,there's someone to tell him.
She will not be right mate, and there is no feckin next week.

 

[Mr Saab]

mmm and who was the player that helped turn the forward pack around? Morley...and who brought in Morley? Murray.
Easts had an avg yr 2001, but there was alot of unrest begind the scenes which resulted in the roosters ppor yr. Alot of in house fighting.
The yr b4 that the chooks made the GF for the 1st time since 1980.

Im not arguing the fact that Murray brought Morley to the Roosters. The point that i was making was that the Roosters were struggling heading into the 2002 season and that Stuart's 3 consecutive GF's are not just because he inherited a side built by Stuart and Gould.

Stuart added a mental and physical toughness to ALL the players (so it certainly wasnt just the addition of Morley) that Gould nor Murray could provide. Whether they laid the platform or not - in terms of playing ranks - Stuart still did what they couldnt which was make the team a fantastic defensive unit.

well i wont argue there. Stuart did manage to bring a comp to Bondi...something Gould nor Murray could do

 

[DJ1]

The thing the stats don't show is where you came compared to where you should have come.

i.e.

Team A on paper should have come 2nd-3rd but came 5th.

Team B on paper should have come 8th-10th but came 4th.

Team C on paper should have come 1st and came 1st.

Team D on paper should have come 12th-15th but came 8th.

Who has the better coach?

The coaches job is to create the synergy to make the whole greater than the sum of the individuals. i.e. the "team" exceeds the expectations of the collection of individual players.

In that case the best coaches are B and D.

(No bondage and discipline jokes please)

 

[Broncodroid]

Team A's expected and strongest line-up would not have been missing for the majority of the season when this prediction was made thus the coach should be applauded for solid season that promised much more.

Show me any team that loses 2 test props for the majority of the season, their main man at 6 for the majority of the season coupled with injuries to other attacking weapons including perhaps the most talented 3/4 in the game that will STILL be able to produce at that same level if all players were available...NO TEAM should be expected too.

No team would can cope that loss in talent and can only do their best to save a season which Brown was able to do in coming 5th 4pts from 4th.

 

[King of the Hill]

Dragon hate aside, Nathan Brown is surely the worst coach in the comp, by far

The Dragons board made a huge error by re-signing that idiot for two years - it's not as if any other club would have been banging his door down trying to get him to sign a contract

On the night that the Dragons got beaten by Penrith, Nathan Brown was up at the TAB with Mary McGregor punting on the horses just a couple of hours before the game - that's so unprofessional it's not even funny, though it is laughable

and it's only one example of the many stories I've heard about the guy

And then he was on the drink the night after wasnt he? Said he'd watch the tape later. Wasnt he shocked when the Cowboys won...what an idiot

Peter Doust has to be ultimately responsible. Of course Brown is going to want to stay on as coach but Doust should never have signed him in the first place. Doust is the biggest joker of the lot.

David Waite was definitely one of the best coaches in the comp before he got dumped. What happened to him was a scandal, no less.

Imagine what Waite could have done with the team Brown had this year!!!!!

 

[Mr Saab]

TAB huh?
typical browny. Horses before coaching.
2005 may spell the end to the coaching career of N Brown.
I hope PRivate Steer is still performing...he will need it for income.

 

[RifRaf]

I think I heard recently that Private Steer had broken down and may not race again... Could be quite symbolic...

 

[Willow]

There's a few people who suddenly have intimate knowledge of Nathan Brown.
Or perhaps it's just a case of hearsay getting mixed up with facts.

Still, it's always worth a chuckle to read supporters from other clubs criticising a Dragons coach appointment. They must be doing something right.

 

[Mr Saab]

willow.
the dragons have not done anything right since 1979