Nathan Hindmarsh and Nathan Cayless

[The Colonel]

I've just been through the player points thread and I'm sort of confused as to how the likes of Cayless and Hindmarsh are getting points. I know they have tremendous work rates and the score would have been remarkably different had they not been on the field but are they really that deserving.

IMO Cayless's game was highlighted by dropped ball, silly penalties and a willingness to argue with the referee and Hindy's was highlighted by sheer frustration which culminated in him being on report for a lifting tackle and arguments with the referee. This resulted in a flow on to the other members of the team.

The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy.

As the two senior most players in the team, internationals both, I was really disappointed in the attitude of these two players over any of the rest of the team particularly when things aren't going right for the team.

I posted this in Avengers "Pathetic" thread.

I think the attitude of too many of our players is poor however given that attitude stems from our senior players down it will take more than just a year to change. I think fish has touched on it - the senior core within the club really does lack real leadership and until that is changed then it isn't going to be muchchange. That is a decision the coach has to make but the only thing it really has to do with the coach is who he chooses as captain. Outside of Cayless, Hindmarsh and a departing Tahu the options at this point aren't there.

Much has been said about Cayless lack of leadership when the going gets rough but I think as an international player of great standing withing the game a player like Hindmarsh presents a poor attitude when he too mouths of at the ref and is penalised constantly at times when the last thing we need are penalties. The influence those two players have on this club is quite obvious and when they are frustrated or playing poorly it flows on. That is what needs to change the most - blaming the coach won't help it.

As strange as it may once have seemed I think Burt is the best choice of captain within the senior group when he returns.

Now I am not one to generally criticise two players who have done so much for our club but in all reality the attitude that we saw last night starts at the top and IMO for our club to really do things into the future the hierarchy at our club need to look at recruiting a leader in the mould of Dean Pay, Steve Price or Steve Edge.

Take a look at Andrew Ryan for starters and the Warriors club - the influence a player like Steve Price has has had on Bobcat and the likes of the Warriors team is plain to see.

As I said above, a player like Burt, while he may not necessarily be our best player, his influence on the team is probably the biggest asset he brings to the team - since he has been out our defence has been poorly organised. He may not have the (c) beside his name but his leadership at the back is sorely missed and could well be what we are seriously lacking.

 

[Hellsy]

I agree Colonel.
Hindy has been frustrating me for weeks, don't get me wrong I would not go without him, but he is not the best player on the field every week.
69 tackles or whatever it was last week was absolutely extroadinary... but WHY did he have to make so many, where were the other defenders??
I'm worried we are burning him out by having the attitude 'Hindy will get it'

When Hindy gets tired he gets careless, he flops and leg pulls and high tackles... he needs to be less tired and more smart and the team need to help him with this

 

[JOB 3:14]

Look I have to agree with you there. I know that everyone thinks the sun shines out of Hindmarsh's arse, as do I, (he is one of my all time favourite players) but sometimes you need more than work rate to earn a win. Hindy last night gave away penalties and his attitude was poor. I believe that this rubbed off on the younger airheads like Hayne and T.Smith. Hindy could be facing the judiciary for three seperate incidents, that's a really careless effort from him. The elbow to Gasnier was unnecessary at best. Gasnier was already on the way down, there was no need to come over the top like that. That was pure frustration. If that had been one of our players on the end of it I would have called it a "cheap shot."
I didn't see alot of encouragement from the senior guys last night.

 

[WA Eel]

Unfortunately Nathan Hindmarsh has turned from being one of the most destructive and effective call running 2nd rowers around to being a modern day Gary Larson.

 

[ParraAds]

You are right in what you say Colonel...

As far as i am concerned, this whole '80 minute footballer' thing with Hindmarsh needs to stop. He drains himself, has little energy in attack, stays too close to the ruck. He is in his late 20's now, his role needs to change. 60 minutes, i feel, would be ideal. Especially considering the rich resources we have with hard working experienced back rowers.

Ruben Wiki is a fine example, he has been a leader at the Warriors for many years now, but the way he plays is well managed by his coach. He is not always on the field, but when he is, he makes a huge impact mentally and physically on his team mates.

The team needs an injection of young robust talent to spark something in the forwards, Paulo and Hauraki have impressed me greatly with their displays in the top grade this year.

 

[strider]

yeah but if we don't give points to Hindy last night - then who do we give em to??? - seriously :lol: .... effort is all we have to go on from last night - there wasn't much other good stuff

 

[V1er]

Hindy seemed to take his angry pills, some of his tackles were a bit borderline. Cayless hasnt been the same since he came back, i think he's struggling a bit.

 

[The Colonel]

Hindy seemed to take his angry pills, some of his tackles were a bit borderline. Cayless hasnt been the same since he came back, i think he's struggling a bit.

Hindy could be facing more than one charge I think.

As for Cayless, I can understand if his mind is elsewhere, it certainly is not easy to lose a parent, particularly your mum, but I'm not just talking about last night either in regard ti both players.

 

[CrazyEel]

I gave them points but acknowledge it was merely a case of earning them by default, no one did any better IMO.

 

[Jake the snake]

I thought Cayless played well yesterday.

 

[nöyd]

It's frustrating that Hindmarsh's work rate in defence is talked up so much, like last night he made 50 odd tackles again, but how many of those tackles consisted of him being the 2nd or 3rd, sometimes 4th player involved in bringing the man to the ground and flopping.

And what is his obsession lately with leg pulling after the tackle is complete?

I agree with Hels, he is becoming very frustrated as a player, and even more frustrating to watch.

 

[Freak2]

Colonel - I can only suggest you are trying to dictate this forum away from Tim Smith with comments like this!

Cayless is the shortest price favorite ever seen to win the players player award this year and Hindmarsh has made 75 tackles one week 60+ the next.

They are the only players that truely bleed it and would do anything in their power to win a premiership for the club.

So yes they will get points off people from this forum - DESERVED POINTS!!

 

[The Colonel]

I thought Cayless played well yesterday.

Individually maybe, he dropped a lot of ball that put us under pressure early. I just don't think as captain, he nor Hindy, are doing their job.

 

[cardinal]

I wonder if you colonel would be at the top of your game if your mother had past away a few weeks earlier. Give Caylo a break before the passing of his mum he was playing great footy, making good yards, high workrate, slipping balls and showing good leadership. It is no surprise his form has slipped away and I could'nt give a s--t if he does not get back to anywhere near his best because he has just been through and is more than likely still dealing with one of the biggest things a person has to deal with, a lot friggin bigger than footy thats for sure. Us eels fans are quick to put the boots in, a little to quick sometimes.

 

[CrazyEel]

And what is his obsession lately with leg pulling after the tackle is complete?

He's been doing that all season and I agree it is very frustrating

 

[Belly in Brisvegas]

Thank god others feel the same way as me.

Hindy is going off the boil.

 

[nöyd]

I wonder if you colonel would be at the top of your game if your mother had past away a few weeks earlier. Give Caylo a break before the passing of his mum he was playing great footy, making good yards, high workrate, slipping balls and showing good leadership. It is no surprise his form has slipped away and I could'nt give a s--t if he does not get back to anywhere near his best because he has just been through and is more than likely still dealing with one of the biggest things a person has to deal with, a lot friggin bigger than footy thats for sure. Us eels fans are quick to put the boots in, a little to quick sometimes.

Read Colonel's post again. And again if necessary.

 

[CrazyEel]

I just don't think as captain, he nor Hindy, are doing their job.

Totally agree with you there and in truth that has always been the case IMO. However that is not the criteria for awarding points to best individual players and last night no one was any better.

 

[The Colonel]

Colonel - I can only suggest you are trying to dictate this forum away from Tim Smith with comments like this!

Cayless is the shortest price favorite ever seen to win the players player award this year and Hindmarsh has made 75 tackles one week 60+ the next.

They are the only players that truely bleed it and would do anything in their power to win a premiership for the club.

So yes they will get points off people from this forum - DESERVED POINTS!!

I don't doubt them as players and what they would do to win a premiership for this club. I do however doubt their credentials when the pressure is applied and the team starts to crumble.

Did you miss the arguments with the referee from both players or the stupid penalties that were given away out of sheer frustration? For me as two players who in your words "are the only players that truely bleed it and would do anything in their power to win a premiership for the club" I think it is a poor sign as leaders.

I don't doubt that their individual games warrant the points they receive but they are much more than individuals in this team. When the team really needs their heads to be level at a lot of times they aren't and for two guys who I respect as much as a lot opf players who have come and gone through this team its very disappointing to watch.

 

[Parra R 4 Me]

I agree Colonel.
Hindy has been frustrating me for weeks, don't get me wrong I would not go without him, but he is not the best player on the field every week.
69 tackles or whatever it was last week was absolutely extroadinary... but WHY did he have to make so many, where were the other defenders??
I'm worried we are burning him out by having the attitude 'Hindy will get it'

When Hindy gets tired he gets careless, he flops and leg pulls and high tackles... he needs to be less tired and more smart and the team need to help him with this

I have to agree with what you say Hellsy when saying "Hindy will get it". and with him becoming careless. Also Piggy and especially Marsh have to be pulled aside and told to stop giving away penalties when making tackles it is killing us.