New AMNRL team announced...

[T Boone Pickens]

I have not debated anything you have posted, I just thing it is very interesting that you have such strong opinions and knowledge of the game in the US without ever seeing a match and residing on a different continent.

I think that point is more relevant to your stance than you think...seeing as all the information you receive is "through the grapevine" as opposed to legitimate personal first hand accounts.


For example, your post saying "The short of it is that they weren't real." I am not opposing or supporting your argument, but how is it that you can make such statements from half the world away without being involved? Am I to understand that this is based purely on past history and personal character of AMNRL leadership?

I have a neutral stance on the leagues in America; I'm just trying to learn as much as possible

 

[byrner]

If you or any other AMNRL sympathizers/affiliates can come up with any coherent arguments against anything I've ever said regarding that organization, then please go right ahead. I'm still waiting.

AMNRL sympathizers? I think you mean people who don't jump on the band wagon, lynching an organisation, and its president, based on posts they have read on an internet forum.

In terms of my own personal perspective, I dont care who runs the game in the US. The fact that there are people, like David Nui and his USARL conterparts, who are willing to put a lot of time and effort into growing rugby league in the US is a good thing.

The fact is that the game in the US is young and for the most part run by volunteers. And your attacks on the AMNRL are attacks on people who have done more for the growth of rugby league than most people ever will.

Sitting behind a computer and bagging out a volunteer organisation is a lot easier than putting blood sweat and tears into the day to day grind of actually running the organisation.

One question, what have you ever done to help rugby league grow in the US?

 

[Evil Homer]

AMNRL sympathizers? I think you mean people who don't jump on the band wagon, lynching an organisation, and its president, based on posts they have read on an internet forum.

No, I mean AMNRL sympathizers, people who attempt to defend the corrupt and frankly indefensible actions of the AMNRL.

In terms of my own personal perspective, I dont care who runs the game in the US. The fact that there are people, like David Nui and his USARL conterparts, who are willing to put a lot of time and effort into growing rugby league in the US is a good thing.

The fact is that the game in the US is young and for the most part run by volunteers. And your attacks on the AMNRL are attacks on people who have done more for the growth of rugby league than most people ever will.

Sitting behind a computer and bagging out a volunteer organisation is a lot easier than putting blood sweat and tears into the day to day grind of actually running the organisation.

One question, what have you ever done to help rugby league grow in the US?

The reason I care who runs the game is because over the last two years, David Niu and the AMNRL have shown themselves to be totally incapable of competent administration, and more importantly have shown that their actions are motivated more by the desire for personal glory than the desire to actually develop the sport. If this wasn't the case then they wouldn't refuse to operate democratically. The AMNRL is a closed-shop organization run by and for the benefit of David Niu and his mates. And as I have said time and time again, I don't have any problem with that apart from the fact that they are actively attempting to hurt people who do appear to have the best interests of the sport at heart. If the AMNRL relinquished control of the national team and the pretense that they are the national governing body for America, then they could do whatever they liked and receive no criticism from me. It's the fact that they are grossly and purposely abusing their power and privilege to benefit themselves and hurt the sport. Regardless of whether they are volunteers or not, there is no excuse for taking on such responsibility and then operating in such an unprofessional manner. If Niu and the AMNRL don't feel that they are capable of doing things properly, then they should resign. At the moment they are doing more harm than good, and so will continue to receive criticism from me until this is rectified.

 

[Evil Homer]

I have not debated anything you have posted, I just thing it is very interesting that you have such strong opinions and knowledge of the game in the US without ever seeing a match and residing on a different continent.

I think that point is more relevant to your stance than you think...seeing as all the information you receive is "through the grapevine" as opposed to legitimate personal first hand accounts.

To suggest that someone needs to have personal experience in order to be informed and have a relevant opinion on an issue is idiotic, especially when nobody can debate the points raised. If anyone has issues with the validity of my information that arise from me living in a different continent, then point them out. Don't just try and insinuate that my points are somehow less pertinent because of that while totally dodging the issue at hand, anyone with half a brain would be able to see through those tactics.

For example, your post saying "The short of it is that they weren't real." I am not opposing or supporting your argument, but how is it that you can make such statements from half the world away without being involved? Am I to understand that this is based purely on past history and personal character of AMNRL leadership?

I have a neutral stance on the leagues in America; I'm just trying to learn as much as possible

Fairfield Crocs and Atlanta Legion were both announced in grandiose press releases by the AMNRL and, to my knowledge, have yet to play a match or have any sort of sustained activity. Delaware Vipers played a season using Aston Bulls players and then disappeared without a trace. Details on the Pacific Conference were sketchy at best and, having spoken to individuals in Hawaii, it seems as though it was a couple of Union outfits who played a handful of matches in their off-season, and the 'Conference' is no longer operating after the man behind it fell out with the AMNRL. This isn't based on hear-say, but if you or anyone else know this information to be untrue then I'll be happy to admit I was wrong.

 

[Bronco Rob]

No, I mean AMNRL sympathizers, people who attempt to defend the corrupt and frankly indefensible actions of the AMNRL.

The reason I care who runs the game is because over the last two years, David Niu and the AMNRL have shown themselves to be totally incapable of competent administration, and more importantly have shown that their actions are motivated more by the desire for personal glory than the desire to actually develop the sport. If this wasn't the case then they wouldn't refuse to operate democratically. The AMNRL is a closed-shop organization run by and for the benefit of David Niu and his mates. And as I have said time and time again, I don't have any problem with that apart from the fact that they are actively attempting to hurt people who do appear to have the best interests of the sport at heart. If the AMNRL relinquished control of the national team and the pretense that they are the national governing body for America, then they could do whatever they liked and receive no criticism from me. It's the fact that they are grossly and purposely abusing their power and privilege to benefit themselves and hurt the sport. Regardless of whether they are volunteers or not, there is no excuse for taking on such responsibility and then operating in such an unprofessional manner. If Niu and the AMNRL don't feel that they are capable of doing things properly, then they should resign. At the moment they are doing more harm than good, and so will continue to receive criticism from me until this is rectified.

I concur with you EH on this, these are my sentiments as well.

No-one is denying the fact that David has put an enormous amount of time into the game but if he really has the development of the game at heart then he would have relinquished this dictatoral-like control he likes to have. Sure they are mainly volunteers but if you want to have a team especially a nation the size of the USA in the World Cup then you have to run the game worth professionalism, it's gone from the days of being a park footy comp.

I work in junior development and my real bone of contention is the lack of junior development in the AMNRL given the time they have had control of the game in the US. We keep hearing about the potential of the game in the US but we have nations like Serbia, Ukraine, Czech Republic, Jamaica, all nations that are newer to the game than the US but all have junior development in place which is the key to running a sustainable league.

 

[Fatwing15]

EH, I'm not really sure what your real points are, if you list them, I will offer my opinions if they contradict yours. We all agree that the National Team would be stronger and a true national team if all players are eligible, so you can leave that off your list. You would probably consider me an AMNRL sympathizer, (I dont think I am, as I see flaws in both leagues as well as things that they do well. ) I've never had a conversation with Nui or the guys running the USARL and I don't know the real specifics behind the politics of either league. So I'm not really sure how relevant my opinion is. Both leagues are tight lipped in this regard.
I probably have more relevant opinions on the talent level in each league, as I play in one league and have watched games in the other.

Would you believe me if I told you that the AMNRL wants the leagues to merge and be run democratically with each team having equal representation on a governing committee?


Just remember, there are a lot of people doing a lot of hard work over here in the states, on both sides. I can't wait for USARL 9's to come back to Philly, and I also can't wait for War at the Shore, both are great examples of what both leagues are doing well.

 

[deal.with.it]

Would you believe me if I told you that the AMNRL wants the leagues to merge and be run democratically with each team having equal representation on a governing committee?


Just remember, there are a lot of people doing a lot of hard work over here in the states, on both sides. I can't wait for USARL 9's to come back to Philly, and I also can't wait for War at the Shore, both are great examples of what both leagues are doing well.

I would believe that the majority stakeholders of the AMNRL want that, but whether the powers that be (i.e. Niu and Illfield) will come to an agreement is a different story.
Has this been spoken about amongst the AMNRL? That it is something that is being sought by Niu and the AMNRL teams?

Also, from memory you are a Sharks player. Will the Sharks or any other AMNRL team enter into the USARL 9s?

 

[siv]

Interesting reading

Seems the USRL is try to evolve

At this stage I still see a need for RL exeprrianced person with local knowledge as a important combination

Distance is a big issue with need for regional leagues to control cost

But it is important to engage with Hawaii and American Samoa and link with Pacific nations in test matches

While distance is a big issue with the potential for regional leagues

 

[IowaRL]

Interesting reading

Seems the USRL is try to evolve

At this stage I still see a need for RL exeprrianced person with local knowledge as a important combination

Distance is a big issue with need for regional leagues to control cost

But it is important to engage with Hawaii and American Samoa and link with Pacific nations in test matches

While distance is a big issue with the potential for regional leagues

Siv,

Distance is a huge issue. Our closest opponent is 4 hours away, each way (so 8 hours total in the car). We'd struggle to get the players for anything closer in that direction, and it'd be 2 hours the other way for the next closest big city. How regional is regional when it comes to travel?

 

[Fatwing15]

I would believe that the majority stakeholders of the AMNRL want that, but whether the powers that be (i.e. Niu and Illfield) will come to an agreement is a different story.
Has this been spoken about amongst the AMNRL? That it is something that is being sought by Niu and the AMNRL teams?

No idea but I would assume so. Seems logical though, like most things in the Rugby League world... I don't have any first hand info, so most of what I say on here are merely my own opinions and assumptions FWIW.

Also, from memory you are a Sharks player. Will the Sharks or any other AMNRL team enter into the USARL 9s?

I hope so, a few guys went last time it was in Philly. It's only a half hour from where I live, so I plan on being there.

 

[Evil Homer]

Would you believe me if I told you that the AMNRL wants the leagues to merge and be run democratically with each team having equal representation on a governing committee?

No, because their actions up to this point have been totally contrary to that. If the AMNRL wanted to merge leagues or operate democratically then they could start doing so tomorrow, and in fact there probably wouldn't have been a split in the first place if that was their attitude. FWIW, when I mention 'the AMNRL' I'm not talking about the players or clubs involved, I'm specifically referring to Niu and his group of mates that comprise the management of the league and national team. The individuals who try to defend corrupt activity and the exclusion of players from the national team. I've no doubt that most of the players etc would like to see the leagues combined or run in a more logical and fair way, after all they are the ones who suffer in all this.

 

[Get Down or Lay Down]

EH,
i can attest to what Fatwing has said and can assure you it has been talked about. Contrary to what you may believe, it is a fact.

 

[siv]

Siv,

Distance is a huge issue. Our closest opponent is 4 hours away, each way (so 8 hours total in the car). We'd struggle to get the players for anything closer in that direction, and it'd be 2 hours the other way for the next closest big city. How regional is regional when it comes to travel?

US is as big as Australia and one Tier model won't work

Old English states are the base just like Sydney & Brisbane is the base in Australia

But even here 2h away in Newcastle the is a 10 team Tier 3 league where regional rep teams play each other

eg New York could easily have a League on its own

If you go to N Qld you will find teams that travel 4-8 hours with Group leagues with around 6-8 teams

I would look to develop a Group structure under each FG team and a OzTag school

It took Newcastle 2 years to go solo from Sydney 8 team comp

And then it took 74 years for Sydney to expand. It wont be easy at Tier 1 level without the setup of a professional league of 8 teams with a major comp sponsor with each team getting 1 or 2 ex NRL or ESL players

I wouldn't setup a region under US state boundaries but around 2 to 3 state boundaries. Maybe with a knockout comp


In regard Niu he has been doing things for 20+ years and has done well to get things moving but a startup strategy is probably not needed now. What is needed is a ability to take things to another level. The US may need a established administrator to help take things to the next level

 

[IowaRL]

US is as big as Australia and one Tier model won't work

Old English states are the base just like Sydney & Brisbane is the base in Australia

But even here 2h away in Newcastle the is a 10 team Tier 3 league where regional rep teams play each other

eg New York could easily have a League on its own

If you go to N Qld you will find teams that travel 4-8 hours with Group leagues with around 6-8 teams

I would look to develop a Group structure under each FG team and a OzTag school

It took Newcastle 2 years to go solo from Sydney 8 team comp

And then it took 74 years for Sydney to expand. It wont be easy at Tier 1 level without the setup of a professional league of 8 teams with a major comp sponsor with each team getting 1 or 2 ex NRL or ESL players

I wouldn't setup a region under US state boundaries but around 2 to 3 state boundaries. Maybe with a knockout comp


In regard Niu he has been doing things for 20+ years and has done well to get things moving but a startup strategy is probably not needed now. What is needed is a ability to take things to another level. The US may need a established administrator to help take things to the next level

If the interest levels were there, I'm sure we could have a region per state/group of states, but until they do, we can't. In the Midwest/Mountain area, we have teams in Denver, Utah, Iowa City, and 2 Chicago. Thats a huge distance, and unless you start clusters around existing teams (which would mean alot more players which we don't have), you can't really have success. Even if I said tomorrow lets have a region which includes Iowa, Wisconsin and Minnesota, we still have huge distances (similar to the biggest distances in Australia for our closest opponent). What do you mean by FG team, and Oztag school. Just one school? Schools here have a tendency to be smaller (at least in Iowa), compared to where I went to school, and if they don't have opponents they won't play the sport. With the focus on school sports, not club sports, schools are vital, but Iowa for example won't even recognise the sport unless we have 80 high schools playing it.

 

[Lone Ranger]

The AMNRL no longer exist. If Grand Prix Rugby bought them then they have removed them from being visible on the internet. The AMNRL.com and WAR are down. The AMNRL facebook hasn't been updated since the final and Niu is silent on Twitter (non-compete is likely).

Is everyone that stupid; the answer is YES!

 

[Evil Homer]

EH,
i can attest to what Fatwing has said and can assure you it has been talked about. Contrary to what you may believe, it is a fact.

I'm sure it has been talked about. But if the AMNRL want unification or fair operation, then stop excluding USARL players from the national team. It's really that simple.

 

[PacificCoastRL]

Speaking of Grand Prix - http://www.pakiscorner.com/2013/01/grand-prix-million-dollar-rugby-7s.html?m=1

I don't know exactly what happened between Grand Prix and the AMNRL, but it looks like for all Tatham's bluster their is some serious money flying around in his circle of friends and associates. I wonder if the GP/AMNRL tiff will be looked upon as another rugby league story gone bad.

 

[IowaRL]

Speaking of Grand Prix - http://www.pakiscorner.com/2013/01/grand-prix-million-dollar-rugby-7s.html?m=1

I don't know exactly what happened between Grand Prix and the AMNRL, but it looks like for all Tatham's bluster their is some serious money flying around in his circle of friends and associates. I wonder if the GP/AMNRL tiff will be looked upon as another rugby league story gone bad.

Interesting stuff about the Sevens competition, with all the teams listed as Invited, not playing or coming. I don't know how much is going on, if it'll be actual representative teams or it'll be other teams dressed up as from that country (like a WA rep team instead of the Wannabees).

 

[siv]

IowaRL

By FG team I mean a team playing in the national league

OzTag is extremely popular non contact version of the sport. Where guys and girls can play with say 7 to 13 players and you can play on half fields

Kids in Australia play this form over summer and is perfect for a school v school format.

Sell it to kids by saying it helps their running back ability

 

[siv]

Speaking of Grand Prix - http://www.pakiscorner.com/2013/01/grand-prix-million-dollar-rugby-7s.html?m=1

I don't know exactly what happened between Grand Prix and the AMNRL, but it looks like for all Tatham's bluster their is some serious money flying around in his circle of friends and associates. I wonder if the GP/AMNRL tiff will be looked upon as another rugby league story gone bad.

This a Rugby Union 7s comp