New signing Ikahihifo

[BennyV]

Our attacking structures are the problem, not Dugan.

This. Very much this.

We don't have a creative ball playing hooker, so we need a ball playing fullback. Nuff said really.

Not true. A bit of ball movement from our backrowers would help. I know JDB, Cooper and Creagh often step into first receiver, but theit timing is so bad it's not funny.

In saying that, if it cane down to moving Dugan or replacing Rein, only a madman would choose the former...

 

[Get2dachopper!]

This. Very much this.



Not true. A bit of ball movement from our backrowers would help. I know JDB, Cooper and Creagh often step into first receiver, but theit timing is so bad it's not funny.

In saying that, if it cane down to moving Dugan or replacing Rein, only a madman would choose the former...

No, only a madman would go into next season with the exact same backline and expect our attack to improve. ;-)

It's my opinion and I'm sticking with it, the team looks more balanced with a fullback who can ball play and a centre who can provide some thrust in attack and also stiffen up the defence.

 

[The Nick]

No, only a madman would go into next season with the exact same backline and expect our attack to improve. ;-)

It's my opinion and I'm sticking with it, the team looks more balanced with a fullback who can ball play and a centre who can provide some thrust in attack and also stiffen up the defence.

Fair enough mate, you could be right but personally I don't like the idea of pinning Dugan to one corridor on one side of the field. Maybe we'll see some different combinations during the trials next year, only time will tell.

 

[giboz71]

3rd highest in the NRL this season for kick return metres, all run metres, and tackle breaks.

2nd best ball runner in the game (behind Inglis). I think the opposition have every right to worry about Duges when he has the ball in hand. He doesn't need to be a ball player, just needs a ball player to give it to him.

Not to mention 2nd highest in the NRL for tries saved. As they say, a try saved is as good as a try scored.

Seems to me we have a pretty effective fullback on our books.

Yep. He has pretty impressive stats. Always has hence he's always in the rep teams and gets a lot of wraps.

But look at his win/loss percentage for both the Raiders and the Dragons. It's hovering around 45% winning percentage for both clubs. This to me is a more telling stat.

Does he have great individual stats? Yes. Does he help his team win? Not so much.

 

[Saints Forever]

Yep. He has pretty impressive stats. Always has hence he's always in the rep teams and gets a lot of wraps.

But look at his win/loss percentage for both the Raiders and the Dragons. It's hovering around 45% winning percentage for both clubs. This to me is a more telling stat.

Does he have great individual stats? Yes. Does he help his team win? Not so much.

x 1000

Duges is a great ball runner, and an excellent defender

He needs to improve his skill set.

Poor goal kicker

Poor kicker in general play

Is unaware of what is happening around him when he makes a break

Poor timing when linking in to back line and as a consequence does not know when to pass

 

[Dragon66]

Dugan would not be wasted in the centres. I have no doubt he would see more ball as centre because we would be mad not to aim the play in his direction. And because he is a great competitor the kickers would be angling the ball towards the try line on his side of the field. And finally, he is one of the best one on one defenders in game there would not be to many breaks coming down his side of the field. Dugan loves to work, that was why he was so successful in the centres last year.

Call me delusional but I can only see an upside wilh Widdop or Mann,if he lives up to the hype, at fullback.

 

[Vasilevsky]

Dugan would not be wasted in the centres. I have no doubt he would see more ball as centre because we would be mad not to aim the play in his direction. And because he is a great competitor the kickers would be angling the ball towards the try line on his side of the field. And finally, he is one of the best one on one defenders in game there would not be to many breaks coming down his side of the field. Dugan loves to work, that was why he was so successful in the centres last year.

Call me delusional but I can only see an upside wilh Widdop or Mann,if he lives up to the hype, at fullback.

Dugan wouldn't be wasted anywhere but in comparison it would be a ridiculous waste to move him to a position where he would certainly be less involved in the game. Widdop? The guy can pass and kick but when was the last time he even looked like taking on the opposition defense and beating it? Mann? Unless he improves a lot, the money the Dragons reportedly threw at him is either very far on the upside to the truth or it's a Dylan Farrell, Gerald Beale type screw up.

I agree the Dragons need a really good playmaker to take full advantage of Dugans skills but they have one already. Benji to be the main playmaker on both sides of the ruck and Widdop to play a role like he did at Melbourne. It's not any new idea. Warriors did the same thing with Townsend and Johnson and Townsend thrived (until Johnson went down injured) as a result. Cowboys do it with Thurston and Morgan and Morgan thrives as a result. Melbourne with Cronk and Green and etc etc.

 

[Dragon66]

Why is it a waste if he is more effective for the team playing in the centres. He can't pass, he rarely hits a hole off Marshall or Widdop. He only knows how to tuck it under his arm and run as hard as he can. And he is very good at that. He is also a great defender.
Widdop is also a very good defender. Can beat an opposing player, and can pass to a supporting player. He was very good with Melbourne when called on to fill in for Slater. He,or another player like him, maybe Mann, is the style of player the team needs. I agree with those that say send out the same backline and expect a different result is delusional. Dugan is a competitor, he is perfect for SOO because he is playing with the best players in the NRL, that is totally different to playing week to week in a NRL team.
Also not sure what your point is about a half and five eight that compliment each other excelling in games is about. Coote is a brilliant individual player who compliments the Cowboys halfs, not the other way around.
That's part of our problem. Marshall and Widdop are both five eights,competive not complementary to each other. Marshall needs a Prince style halfback to allow him to play his natural game.

Vas, you are entitled to your point of view. I respect that, but you can go and get f'd if you think you are right and everybody else is wrong. This is only my opinion, nothing more,nothing less.

 

[Vasilevsky]

Why is it a waste if he is more effective for the team playing in the centres. He can't pass, he rarely hits a hole off Marshall or Widdop. He only knows how to tuck it under his arm and run as hard as he can. And he is very good at that. He is also a great defender.
Widdop is also a very good defender. Can beat an opposing player, and can pass to a supporting player. He was very good with Melbourne when called on to fill in for Slater. He,or another player like him, maybe Mann, is the style of player the team needs. I agree with those that say send out the same backline and expect a different result is delusional. Dugan is a competitor, he is perfect for SOO because he is playing with the best players in the NRL, that is totally different to playing week to week in a NRL team.
Also not sure what your point is about a half and five eight that compliment each other excelling in games is about. Coote is a brilliant individual player who compliments the Cowboys halfs, not the other way around.
That's part of our problem. Marshall and Widdop are both five eights,competive not complementary to each other. Marshall needs a Prince style halfback to allow him to play his natural game.

Vas, you are entitled to your point of view. I respect that, but you can go and get f'd if you think you are right and everybody else is wrong. This is only my opinion, nothing more,nothing less.

I don't always think I'm right but do you honestly think the team would be better off with Mann at fullback and Dugan in the centres??? Surely it's some kind of inside joke.

Regardless, Mullholland has come out and called him a backline utility. It will take a player far better than Mann to force Dugan out of fullback.

 

[Saints Forever]

Dugan would not be wasted in the centres. I have no doubt he would see more ball as centre because we would be mad not to aim the play in his direction. And because he is a great competitor the kickers would be angling the ball towards the try line on his side of the field. And finally, he is one of the best one on one defenders in game there would not be to many breaks coming down his side of the field. Dugan loves to work, that was why he was so successful in the centres last year.

Call me delusional but I can only see an upside wilh Widdop or Mann,if he lives up to the hype, at fullback.

X 100

We are all entitled to our respective opinions.

Vas, enjoy your comments, and understand Duges is your love child.

We need a ball playing full back and an organiser who can put a man through a gap. Dudes is not that player.

 

[Walpole]

Have to say, I can see both sides of the Dugan at fullback or centre argument but I wouldn't mind seeing what happens if we separate Widdop and Benji.

Let Benji control things with Mann as a junior partner in the halves, Widdop to fullback and Duges in the centres. Mata'utia as a hard running winger with Nightingale and Aitken rounding out the backline. Doesn't sound so bad to me, particularly playing behind a pack including Masoe, Packer (plus Cooper and Ah Mau) and one of the best back rows in the comp.

 

[BennyV]

I don't always think I'm right but do you honestly think the team would be better off with Mann at fullback and Dugan in the centres??? Surely it's some kind of inside joke.

Regardless, Mullholland has come out and called him a backline utility. It will take a player far better than Mann to force Dugan out of fullback.

Ironically, it has been mentioned elsewhere that Mulholland signed Mann with the hope of moving Dugan to centre and Mann playing fullback. Mary doesnt wanna move Dugan. Allegedly, anyway!

 

[BrissyRedV]

The Dugan will thrive no matter where we put him. It is all about getting the right balance for the team as a whole and creating a good structure from that. His organising in defence, the way he attacks the ball and his kick returns are his strongest points. But he really lacks in his creativity in attack and ends up playing like a centre in the opp 20m. You always know the ball will die with him when he gets it on those sweeping plays. He never really draws and passes.

Personally, I would like to see in the trial games The Dugan playing fullback in defence and then reverting to centre in attack with Mann reverting from centre to fullback for attack hopefully giving us the best of both worlds.

 

[since77]

A few teams swap players around in defence and attack and if you could get Dugan playing fullback for kick returns etc and at centre in attack that would be the best of both worlds. Would also make him quite a versatile player to have in rep teams, so would be good motivation for him to make it work.

 

[Vasilevsky]

Have to say, I can see both sides of the Dugan at fullback or centre argument but I wouldn't mind seeing what happens if we separate Widdop and Benji.

Let Benji control things with Mann as a junior partner in the halves, Widdop to fullback and Duges in the centres. Mata'utia as a hard running winger with Nightingale and Aitken rounding out the backline. Doesn't sound so bad to me, particularly playing behind a pack including Masoe, Packer (plus Cooper and Ah Mau) and one of the best back rows in the comp.

This would make more sense but when was the last time you saw Widdop take on the enemy defensive line and go through it? He may have done it at Melbourne. Widdop should stay at 5/8 but be a Jnr partner to Benji regardless.

With Widdop or Mann at fullback what you would gain in ball playing ability (or alleged ball playing ability in Manns case) you would lose in every other facet of a fullbacks game.

 

[giboz71]

For the record, my preference would be to keep Dugan at fullback. The ideal scenario would be for him to develop a passing game in the offseason. But in all honesty, if he doesn't have it by now, he never will.

Having a flying fullback who can pass is such a weapon these days. RTS had 4 try assists in 1 game during the season as the better fullbacks can't be defended 1 on 1. There will always be a winger or a centre open, provided the fullback knows when to pass and who to pass it to (or score the try himself). It's all about instincts.

Tedesco, Inglis and Stewart possess similar skills. Boyd was masterful at this when he played for us.

The fact that this sort of attacking play is not an option for us when it is for 90% of other sides puts us behind the 8 ball from the get go, and explains why were bottom 2 in points scored. One of three things has to happen next year:

1. Dugan learns to pass
2. Change our attacking structure
3. Try another fullback

Dishing up the same attack simply cannot happen again.

 

[Vasilevsky]

For the record, my preference would be to keep Dugan at fullback. The ideal scenario would be for him to develop a passing game in the offseason. But in all honesty, if he doesn't have it by now, he never will.

Having a flying fullback who can pass is such a weapon these days. RTS had 4 try assists in 1 game during the season as the better fullbacks can't be defended 1 on 1. There will always be a winger or a centre open, provided the fullback knows when to pass and who to pass it to (or score the try himself). It's all about instincts.

Tedesco, Inglis and Stewart possess similar skills. Boyd was masterful at this when he played for us.

The fact that this sort of attacking play is not an option for us when it is for 90% of other sides puts us behind the 8 ball from the get go, and explains why were bottom 2 in points scored. One of three things has to happen next year:

1. Dugan learns to pass
2. Change our attacking structure
3. Try another fullback

Dishing up the same attack simply cannot happen again.

That makes sense to me but perhaps it would be more accurate to say 'Dugan learns how to pass better'. He can pass but isn't equally adept at running and passing as it seems Inglis, Tedesco or RTS are.

And as for attacking woes. I think Widdop trying to do too much is the cause of that. As we saw of the attack in the one game Widdop didn't play.

 

[boardlumps62]

I remember sometime ago when duges played for raiders probably lighter but he snatched victory from us with some deft kicks to in goal to score. Think hes got a footy brain just needs to grow some cells back after his binges on the roof.
Hes turned the corner will be better now we have some size in the forwards as will everyone. Expect a different style of attack 2016. Dino your comments please.

 

[Como Connection]

Who is Ikahihito, don't see much about him here

 

[BennyV]

That makes sense to me but perhaps it would be more accurate to say 'Dugan learns how to pass better'. He can pass but isn't equally adept at running and passing as it seems Inglis, Tedesco or RTS are.

And as for attacking woes. I think Widdop trying to do too much is the cause of that. As we saw of the attack in the one game Widdop didn't play.

Agree re: Dugan. His issue isnt inability to pass, its his instincts and insbilty to make a snap decision. When he gets the the ball, his first instinct is to run. He will see a small gap or a player pair his feet and he will ruin the ball. Which is good a lot of the time, but if course he misses lots of opportunities. Boyd, RTS, Stewart - these guys can run the ball, get to the line, then sum up the option of passingn or running in a split second, and it will come off. Its very learnable.

On the other hand, your bias assessment of Widdop as the core of our attacking woes is, as usual, laughable. You reckon the only game we showed any attack was against the Tigpies?! Interesting that we piled on points against Knights, Scum and Canberra at various stages...our was Widdop out those games too? Was he out when Benji went off early against NZ and Widdop orchestrated an ass whooping? Was it someone wise in disguise who picked apart the Bulldogs defence to put us in the game against them during the regular season. Take off your Widdop-despising glasses champ. Our attacking issue is, and has been all year, a result of poor structures and timing, which comes down to training and coaching methods.