New Zealand 2 will deal a massive blow to NZ rugby

[Gobsmacked]

I dont think there'll be too many NZ punters upset tbh. SR's been a shadow of itself since the Africans and Argies were excluded, both in terms of a spectacle and as a stepping stone into test footy.

The critical thing will be what its replaced with, and it cant be just a souped up NPC in my view.

Traditionalists insist that would reinvigorate local interest and that might be true, but a 6mth circle jerk amongst ourselves is poor preparation for test footy and that's still where the vast majority of revenue stems from.

Doesn't matter much what the punters think. Another SR franchise collapse is another 30 or 40 full time professionals playing RU gone. When SR does eventually collapse, the pool of professional players the the All blacks will be able to pick from also collapses, along with experiencing a professional environment.
Rugby Union in the Pacific will be reduced to mainly internationals and the NRL will have virtually no professional Rugby to compete with at a club level.

 

[Matiunz]

Moana Pasifika set to exit Super Rugby after 2026 season - ESPN https://share.google/3K3aGplRsJY8JY9HE

So, another blow to Rugby in NZ . We knew this was coming.
What's that? Another $5 million and 40 full time RU spots gone. They'll be gone the same year NRL opens up another $12 million and 30 full time spots.

Question is who's next? Fiji? WA? I know the Brumbies were struggling for cash not long ago.

MP weren’t really a NZ side they were an ill conceived attempt at getting a PI side whilst realising Samoa/Tonga can’t sustain a full time professional team. Ended up being too much of a drain on funds (needed $8M to break even but we’re only pulling in around the $2M mark). They weren’t doing their national team any good as their results were atrocious so wasn’t much incentive for WR to help out. Think there was also a massive miscalculation on the ability to tap into the PI fan market but they just didn’t adopt them in big numbers, I’m not sure you see the big numbers turn out week on week more of a one off big event basis.
Drua on the other hand are seemingly much better supported by the locals, was quite surprised how much exposure they had in Fiji, billboards, players in ads, stand alone Drua stores etc. The team has been getting more competitive and tend to get a few scalps in Fiji (only team to beat the current comp leaders). The Fiji national team is growing in competitiveness and will now regularly challenge and get the odd scalp against top 10 teams. Strong sponsor in Fiji air and it wouldn’t surprise me to see WR step in if required

 

[BuffaloRules]

MP weren’t really a NZ side they were an ill conceived attempt at getting a PI side whilst realising Samoa/Tonga can’t sustain a full time professional team. Ended up being too much of a drain on funds (needed $8M to break even but we’re only pulling in around the $2M mark). They weren’t doing their national team any good as their results were atrocious so wasn’t much incentive for WR to help out. Think there was also a massive miscalculation on the ability to tap into the PI fan market but they just didn’t adopt them in big numbers, I’m not sure you see the big numbers turn out week on week more of a one off big event basis.

ill conceived seems the right term to me … who signs off on that call ? Does anyone at Super Rugby face any repercussions for what has proven to be an obvious f up?

 

[stratocaster]

Samoans and Tongans can play in the NRL and make millions, and then go play for competitive national teams.

It's only a matter of time before Western Force are cut again. They were already cut ahead of the Rebels back in 2017. Only a matter of time.

 

[Matiunz]

ill conceived seems the right term to me … who signs off on that call ? Does anyone at Super Rugby face any repercussions for what has proven to be an obvious f up?

To be fair there’s plenty of calls from league to replicate the mistake both in Pasifika and Auckland 2.
Get the idea in theory but the whole concept is flawed in reality

 

[BuffaloRules]

To be fair there’s plenty of calls from league to replicate the mistake both in Pasifika and Auckland 2.
Get the idea in theory but the whole concept is flawed in reality

Ok … but the NRL didn’t actually do it… and it certainly won’t be happening now

 

[flippikat]

You know.. the more I think about it, the more I suspect the NRL may even announce they're adding teams 20 and 21 (NZ 2 & SEQ 4) in a similar way to Perth & PNG, either staggered slightly or at the same time.

If that happens around 2032 (give or take), then it's still only 10 games per weekend (same as with 20 teams), but has a weekly bye built-in.. which may be useful for scheduling & player welfare - especially for teams flying to/from Perth while the competition consolidates after all the expansion - something we never had a chance to see in the 1990s after that expansion.

(Side note - this may also put pressure on some Sydney clubs, as what happened post-1995 expansion.. and that's a real wildcard here - if Perth Bears is a success it may even make relocation a more palatable scenario in that scenario)

If PNG survives, then wait until the late 2030s to add team 22... and open that spot up to bids from ANYWHERE (Adelaide, NZ 3, SEQ 5, Central Qld, Central Coast, you name it..)

If PNG fails, sad but the consolation is we have 20 teams with NZ2, 4 SEQ teams and Perth already there.. and potentially 2 spots (21 & 22) there to put on the market at some time to be decided for a similar field of bidders, but no pressing hurry.

 

[Wb1234]

If union couldn’t support two auckland super rugby side it shows league has no chance

all the Aussie commentators saying it could (Gus I’m looking at you) just have no clue

 

[Wb1234]

Moana Pasifika set to exit Super Rugby after 2026 season - ESPN https://share.google/3K3aGplRsJY8JY9HE

So, another blow to Rugby in NZ . We knew this was coming.
What's that? Another $5 million and 40 full time RU spots gone. They'll be gone the same year NRL opens up another $12 million and 30 full time spots.

Question is who's next? Fiji? WA? I know the Brumbies were struggling for cash not long ago.

It will strengthen the remaining super rugby sides like when the rebels did and it made the other Aussie sides stronger

there’s an article about a proposed super rugby format that Stan has requested so obviously theyve been planning this for a while

 

[Matiunz]

It will strengthen the remaining super rugby sides like when the rebels did and it made the other Aussie sides stronger

there’s an article about a proposed super rugby format that Stan has requested so obviously theyve been planning this for a while

Less teams makes a full home and away regular season the preferred option vs adding more teams. Could actually give more content if done right.
Agree with the idea to open the borders to allow movement of players either side of the Tasman, will probably strengthen the competitiveness of the Aus sides but weaken the Wallabies.
Don’t agree with Stan’s ask to make sure an Australian side is guaranteed a playoff spot- that was the beginning of the end when SA insisted upon it which led to the manipulation of the ladder etc

 

[marlins2.0]

Less teams makes a full home and away regular season the preferred option vs adding more teams. Could actually give more content if done right.
Agree with the idea to open the borders to allow movement of players either side of the Tasman, will probably strengthen the competitiveness of the Aus sides but weaken the Wallabies.
Don’t agree with Stan’s ask to make sure an Australian side is guaranteed a playoff spot- that was the beginning of the end when SA insisted upon it which led to the manipulation of the ladder etc

18 games plus semi and a final, with a mid season break for touring northern hemisphere nations.

Champions of Champions with Japan post season

Rugby Championship post season with South Africa, NZ, Australia, Argentina, Japan and Fiji. I'd also add a final.

Leads straight into the Northern Hemisphere tour.

Like..its sitting right on their lap!

 

[Matua]

I dont think there'll be too many NZ punters upset tbh. SR's been a shadow of itself since the Africans and Argies were excluded, both in terms of a spectacle and as a stepping stone into test footy.

The critical thing will be what its replaced with, and it cant be just a souped up NPC in my view.

Traditionalists insist that would reinvigorate local interest and that might be true, but a 6mth circle jerk amongst ourselves is poor preparation for test footy and that's still where the vast majority of revenue stems from.

TBH, I think a fully pro 10 team NPC would actually be a tougher comp than current Super.

Also, I know it's the rule here (and TBF in many rugby forums too) to say how terrible Super is but the actual rugby itself was outstanding last year (not as good this year, but then I don't think the NRL is as good so far this year either, lots of high scoring matches likely due to the 6 again).

18 games plus semi and a final, with a mid season break for touring northern hemisphere nations.

Champions of Champions with Japan post season

Rugby Championship post season with South Africa, NZ, Australia, Argentina, Japan and Fiji. I'd also add a final.

Leads straight into the Northern Hemisphere tour.

Like..its sitting right on their lap!

This will lose some traditionalists like me. I care about the ABs and NPC first, then after a significant gap Super. An all year Super is disinteresting to me, I already have the Warriors for that, and July-Aug can be a slog when the Warriors are their normal shitty self.

I expect that eventually it might go that way, I just hope the Magpies have at least won the NPC by then.

The race is on between the Warriors and the Magpies. TBF, if they both win I'll likely just drop dead because there wont be anything left to live for.

 

[marlins2.0]

TBH, I think a fully pro 10 team NPC would actually be a tougher comp than current Super.

Also, I know it's the rule here (and TBF in many rugby forums too) to say how terrible Super is but the actual rugby itself was outstanding last year (not as good this year, but then I don't think the NRL is as good so far this year either, lots of high scoring matches likely due to the 6 again).


This will lose some traditionalists like me. I care about the ABs and NPC first, then after a significant gap Super. An all year Super is disinteresting to me, I already have the Warriors for that, and July-Aug can be a slog when the Warriors are their normal shitty self.

I expect that eventually it might go that way, I just hope the Magpies have at least won the NPC by then.

The race is on between the Warriors and the Magpies. TBF, if they both win I'll likely just drop dead because there wont be anything left to live for.

Yeah I don't mind rugby either, it's certainly better than it used to be. I like poppin the NPC on at 2.30 on a Saturday, leads into evening sports well!

 

[flippikat]

Yeah I don't mind rugby either, it's certainly better than it used to be. I like poppin the NPC on at 2.30 on a Saturday, leads into sports well!

Problem is that if NZ Rugby scrapped SR and went back to club->NPC->All Blacks, then the TV money for an all-NZ 2nd tier will be limited.

The only hope in that scenario is some kinda Champions League or knockout trophy between the top NPC teams and the best Aussie & Japan ones.... and I'd imagine the NPC would be a lot less even than it's been recently as the biggest provinces will exert their dominance... could even be as brutally uneven as the Scottish Premier League football (just Auckland & Canterbury dominating, much like how Celtic & Rangers have in that competition)

TLR - Without firm talent equalization measures & some kinda international layer to it, a return to NPC will be a huge failure.

 

[marlins2.0]

¹11¹ is that if NZ Rugby q1

Zq45 $$®©%hel

 

[marlins2.0]

TBH, I think a fully pro 10 team NPC would actually be a tougher comp than current Super.

Also, I know it's the rule here (and TBF in many rugby forums too) to say how terrible Super is but the actual rugby itself was outstanding last year (not as good this year, but then I don't think the NRL is as good so far this year either, lots of high scoring matches likely due to the 6 again).


This will lose some traditionalists like me. I care about the ABs and NPC first, then after a significant gap Super. An all year Super is disinteresting to me, I already have the Warriors for that, and July-Aug can be a slog when the Warriors are their normal shitty self.

I expect that eventually it might go that way, I just hope the Magpies have at least won the NPC by then.

The race is on between the Warriors and the Magpies. TBF, if they both win I'll likely just drop dead because there wont be anything left to live for.

Who would your ten be?

The big 5 + Hawkes Bay, BOP, Tasman, Taranaki and Northland?

 

[Matua]

Who would your ten be?

The big 5 + Hawkes Bay, BOP, Tasman, Taranaki and Northland?

As long as HB is there I wouldn't care.

But yeah, I think those teams make sense, although I expect Northland and Harbour might combine.

Would be tough on the teams like Counties who would have to rejoin Auckland again.

 

[flippikat]

Zq45 $$®©%hel

Dropped phone. Post fixed now

 

[marlins2.0]

As long as HB is there I wouldn't care.

But yeah, I think those teams make sense, although I expect Northland and Harbour might combine.

Would be tough on the teams like Counties who would have to rejoin Auckland again.

Blues
Chiefs
Hurricanes/Lions
Crusaders
Highlanders
Taniwha
Steamers
Magpies
Bulls
Makos

 

[marlins2.0]

Problem is that if NZ Rugby scrapped SR and went back to club->NPC->All Blacks, then the TV money for an all-NZ 2nd tier will be limited.

The only hope in that scenario is some kinda Champions League or knockout trophy between the top NPC teams and the best Aussie & Japan ones.... and I'd imagine the NPC would be a lot less even than it's been recently as the biggest provinces will exert their dominance... could even be as brutally uneven as the Scottish Premier League football (just Auckland & Canterbury dominating, much like how Celtic & Rangers have in that competition)

TLR - Without firm talent equalization measures & some kinda international layer to it, a return to NPC will be a huge failure.

Salary cap.