New Zealand 2 will deal a massive blow to NZ rugby

[flippikat]

Blues
Chiefs
Hurricanes/Lions
Crusaders
Highlanders
Taniwha
Steamers
Magpies
Bulls
Makos

Not a bad lineup, wonder which team out of that lot would be taking the odd game to Palmerston North?

 

[Matua]

Problem is that if NZ Rugby scrapped SR and went back to club->NPC->All Blacks, then the TV money for an all-NZ 2nd tier will be limited.

The only hope in that scenario is some kinda Champions League or knockout trophy between the top NPC teams and the best Aussie & Japan ones.... and I'd imagine the NPC would be a lot less even than it's been recently as the biggest provinces will exert their dominance... could even be as brutally uneven as the Scottish Premier League football (just Auckland & Canterbury dominating, much like how Celtic & Rangers have in that competition)

TLR - Without firm talent equalization measures & some kinda international layer to it, a return to NPC will be a huge failure.

I don't think that is necessarily true. Probably, Sky would just be paying out what they're paying now for Super/ABs.

A 10 team NPC can probably tie up the same amount of players on similar money that Super, WTG, NPC does now.

And yep, NZR would need to ensure that the bigger provinces don't dominate, but as NZR controls the purse strings they have the ability to do this.

I don't think the internationalisation needs to be there, but an end of year comp champions trophy between Oz and Japan could be an icing on the cake though, but the biggest rating Super matches are usually between NZ teams.

 

[Matua]

Not a bad lineup, wonder which team out of that lot would be taking the odd game to Palmerston North?

If the Magpies took one the Poo fans would probably cheer for the opposition, so maybe the Naki.

 

[flippikat]

As long as HB is there I wouldn't care.

But yeah, I think those teams make sense, although I expect Northland and Harbour might combine.

Would be tough on the teams like Counties who would have to rejoin Auckland again.

Counties rejoining Auckland has got nothing on Northland being joined to Harbour - I can just see some tension there about what the split of home games would be between North Harbour & Whangarei.

Distance between them is far more then Eden Park to Pukekohe!

 

[Matua]

Counties rejoining Auckland has got nothing on Northland being joined to Harbour - I can just see some tension there about what the split of home games would be between North Harbour & Whangarei.

Distance between them is far more then Eden Park to Pukekohe!

I just don't think you can have a union as big as Harbour not be in a team (or as part of a super sized Auckland). I'm sure they'll be fine as they will be united in hatred against Auckland.

 

[marlins2.0]

Counties rejoining Auckland has got nothing on Northland being joined to Harbour - I can just see some tension there about what the split of home games would be between North Harbour & Whangarei.

Distance between them is far more then Eden Park to Pukekohe!

Honestly with traffic, probably even haha

 

[Matiunz]

Who would your ten be?

The big 5 + Hawkes Bay, BOP, Tasman, Taranaki and Northland?

Southland would probably be easy enough to absorb into Otago and improve them.
Dunno if you could take out Counties and Harbour without stacking Auckland
Manawatu (despite being mortal enemies) would be rough to miss out, Vikings saga showed a marriage with HB didn’t work and too far away from Wellington?

 

[Matiunz]

Counties rejoining Auckland has got nothing on Northland being joined to Harbour - I can just see some tension there about what the split of home games would be between North Harbour & Whangarei.

Distance between them is far more then Eden Park to Pukekohe!

Essentially used to be combined as North Auckland didn’t they? Pretty sure Harbour only came into existence to stem Auckland dominance (See Cronulla coming in to curb St George for the leagies getting bored )

 

[stratocaster]

Adding 4 extra rounds might give clubs some extra money but it won't solve the broader problem that Super Rugby faces, which are:

1) It no longest has mainstream cultural relevancy in Australia - you can see that in the Google trends data where Super Rugby teams sit even behind A-League teams.

2) In Australia it's competing against two dominant football codes that have massive fanbases that stretch back over 100+ years and have 34 major Australian clubs between them (compared to SR's 4).

3) One of these, NRL, is essentially a rival rugby code and dominates all the markets that Super Rugby operates in

4) NRL club games last up to 31 weeks of the season, more than double what Super Rugby will offer.

5) Those 17 NRL clubs have a staggering combined salary cap which is going to keep growing as it increases and new clubs are added. It's as if the NRL was Silicon Valley and SR was a start-up AI company competing against. Overtime the gaps grows until the smaller one is consumed.

6) A lot of rugby union fans view SR as a developmental league for players to get practice for the 'real' international matches, rather than a proper club competition that stands on its own right. If you can get rugby fans to believe in its value, you'll struggle to get outsiders to convert.

 

[i0Nic]

Club Rugby is done at least in Asia Pacific. Future wallabies and all blacks will be based in Europe.

 

[i0Nic]

It’s actually not a good thing for the NRL in some ways. With local club union and soccer in a shit show it becomes harder to partner for stadium upgrades. Now international rugby and international soccer is pretty strong but those games are fewer between.

 

[Gobsmacked]

Interesting these chats from our resident Kiwis and the pivot towards npc. All is good and well and I'm sure it can be a good little competition but it's fundamentally flawed.
How's the NPC going to pay players? The broadcast revenue will be miniscule. What numbers are we talking about salary wise? 2 million per club? That will be kinda affordable on a small NZ TV deal and that's on a squad of what 35 40 Players ?
That's an average of 50k , you can't live on that, so you're talking about a semi pro competition where any real talent goes to NRL, Japan, Europe ect.

Sure, you'll top up the accounts of 40 or 50 All blacks but look who they're sharpening their skills with.. part timers - that won't work.

You're going to have to start picking players from outside the NPC, at that point all the talent can go where it wants and nobody cares about the NPC which sends the NPC into it's own death spiral

I don't think people on the Union side see how structurally broken Union becomes if SR is disbanded.

Rugby Union in the Pacific is in a managed decline which is accelerating.

 

[Gobsmacked]

It’s actually not a good thing for the NRL in some ways. With local club union and soccer in a shit show it becomes harder to partner for stadium upgrades. Now international rugby and international soccer is pretty strong but those games are fewer between.

We don't seem to be utilizing the opportunity to partner for stadium upgrades anyway.

A declining soccer and Union feeds into a growth for League that actually ends up putting more pressure on stadium upgrades anyway.
I'll use the Storm as an example:
Before the Rebels collapse, Storm average well under capacity. In the first year of the Storm being the only show in town, their attendance got boosted and multiple sell outs recorded - reaching capacity puts pressure on Upgrades.

Super Rugby collapse would see Reds , Warratahs, Brumbies and Force would see a small uplifting of crowd averages for their League counterparts .
Bears benefit by testing capacity and forcing stadium upgrades, Raiders, Broncos.. maybe not Roosters but you get my point.

A concentration of fans will push stadium upgrades imo

 

[TheRam]

What the Hell....have I stumbled into a Rugby forum by mistake or something?

What is all this dribble that the majority of us Couldn't give a toss about?

Stop it you pillocks! This is a League forum. We don't discuss wanabe entertainment FFS!.

 

[BuffaloRules]

We don't seem to be utilizing the opportunity to partner for stadium upgrades anyway.

A declining soccer and Union feeds into a growth for League that actually ends up putting more pressure on stadium upgrades anyway.
I'll use the Storm as an example:
Before the Rebels collapse, Storm average well under capacity. In the first year of the Storm being the only show in town, their attendance got boosted and multiple sell outs recorded - reaching capacity puts pressure on Upgrades.

It’s interesting to me that if not for the Melbourne Victory … AAMI Stadium would have only been 20k capacity ….the Storm were a bit small minded at the time and were happy with that, and it was the Victory that pushed the Govt for a bigger stadium…

The Storm would be maxed out by now ..shows having other sports around can be of benefit occasionally

 

[nswarrior]

Interesting these chats from our resident Kiwis and the pivot towards npc. All is good and well and I'm sure it can be a good little competition but it's fundamentally flawed.
How's the NPC going to pay players? The broadcast revenue will be miniscule. What numbers are we talking about salary wise? 2 million per club? That will be kinda affordable on a small NZ TV deal and that's on a squad of what 35 40 Players ?
That's an average of 50k , you can't live on that, so you're talking about a semi pro competition where any real talent goes to NRL, Japan, Europe ect.

Sure, you'll top up the accounts of 40 or 50 All blacks but look who they're sharpening their skills with.. part timers - that won't work.

You're going to have to start picking players from outside the NPC, at that point all the talent can go where it wants and nobody cares about the NPC which sends the NPC into it's own death spiral

I don't think people on the Union side see how structurally broken Union becomes if SR is disbanded.

Rugby Union in the Pacific is in a managed decline which is accelerating.

Lot of people don’t understand that professional sports derives majority of its revenue from TV deals

 

[Ian Douglas]

Interesting these chats from our resident Kiwis and the pivot towards npc. All is good and well and I'm sure it can be a good little competition but it's fundamentally flawed.
How's the NPC going to pay players? The broadcast revenue will be miniscule. What numbers are we talking about salary wise? 2 million per club? That will be kinda affordable on a small NZ TV deal and that's on a squad of what 35 40 Players ?
That's an average of 50k , you can't live on that, so you're talking about a semi pro competition where any real talent goes to NRL, Japan, Europe ect.

Sure, you'll top up the accounts of 40 or 50 All blacks but look who they're sharpening their skills with.. part timers - that won't work.

You're going to have to start picking players from outside the NPC, at that point all the talent can go where it wants and nobody cares about the NPC which sends the NPC into it's own death spiral

I don't think people on the Union side see how structurally broken Union becomes if SR is disbanded.

Rugby Union in the Pacific is in a managed decline which is accelerating.

Both situations are a win-win for the NRL in New Zealand as long as they seize the initiative and award team #20 to NZ2.

 

[Ian Douglas]

What the Hell....have I stumbled into a Rugby forum by mistake or something?

What is all this dribble that the majority of us Couldn't give a toss about?

Stop it you pillocks! This is a League forum. We don't discuss wanabe entertainment FFS!.

The discussion is about how the decline of domestic RU in New Zealand will benefit both the NRL and RL in general in New Zealand.

try and see the bigger picture.

 

[Gobsmacked]

It’s interesting to me that if not for the Melbourne Victory … AAMI Stadium would have only been 20k capacity ….the Storm were a bit small minded at the time and were happy with that, and it was the Victory that pushed the Govt for a bigger stadium…

The Storm would be maxed out by now ..shows having other sports around can be of benefit occasionally

That's a fair point mate, I guess it can work both ways.

 

[Gobsmacked]

Both situations are a win-win for the NRL in New Zealand as long as they seize the initiative and award team #20 to NZ2.

With 2 full NRL pathways on the South and North Islands for Both teams and the absence of a fully professional Rugby Union comp- 90% of the best talent in NZ is in League and with 2 teams of 13 million dollars of talent in the biggest Rugby comp in the world.. so is the audience.